Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 43 minutes, 11 seconds
Trusted Identifier
A new Psilocybe from Germany * 3
    #21787620 - 06/10/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Discovery of a new caerulescent Psilocybe mushroom in Germany: Psilocybe germanica sp.nov.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced/doi/10.1002/dta.1795


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAnglerfishM
hearing things
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,644
Loc: Norvegr Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21787656 - 06/10/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting read, thanks! And no pellicle?


--------------------




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSatanicShroomer
Anti-Cosmic Chaosophist
Male


Registered: 05/17/14
Posts: 512
Loc: Ohio Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21787663 - 06/10/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That's awesome! That is for posting this. (You should've included some tits, but we'll give you a pass :wink: )


--------------------


"The good Reverend McCoy speaks. Few listen, even fewer understand..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSatanicShroomer
Anti-Cosmic Chaosophist
Male


Registered: 05/17/14
Posts: 512
Loc: Ohio Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: SatanicShroomer]
    #21787665 - 06/10/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

*thanks for posting


--------------------


"The good Reverend McCoy speaks. Few listen, even fewer understand..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHamiltonJoe
Sub Bus
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/27/13
Posts: 328
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: SatanicShroomer]
    #21787670 - 06/10/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Oh baby!!


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 43 minutes, 11 seconds
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: HamiltonJoe]
    #21788107 - 06/10/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Interesting read, thanks! And no pellicle?





A lot of Psilocybes don't have much of a pellicle.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoctorghosty
is the name of me
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21788175 - 06/10/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, those are gorgeous.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
The white stipes
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: doctorghosty]
    #21788260 - 06/10/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Very cool! I wonder how something like this can be around for 10's of thousands of year and yet no one noticed it until 2014.


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



AMU Q&A


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoctorghosty
is the name of me
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: maynardjameskeenan] * 1
    #21788287 - 06/10/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
Very cool! I wonder how something like this can be around for 10's of thousands of year and yet no one noticed it until 2014.




It had been dormant for years and then some asshat raked the entire forest floor and stirred up the spores.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJoust
Mycotographer
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: doctorghosty]
    #21788390 - 06/10/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Badass! Those looks gnarly

those azzies look crazy too (labeled A)


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRan-D
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,313
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: doctorghosty]
    #21788532 - 06/10/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

doctorghosty said:
Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
Very cool! I wonder how something like this can be around for 10's of thousands of year and yet no one noticed it until 2014.




It had been dormant for years and then some asshat raked the entire forest floor and stirred up the spores.




:loldongs:

It was Alan.


Edited by Ran-D (06/10/15 02:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 43 minutes, 11 seconds
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Ran-D]
    #21791423 - 06/11/15 01:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So....Does anyone see any problems with this paper?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJoust
Mycotographer
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21791501 - 06/11/15 02:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
So....Does anyone see any problems with this paper?



I have not read it yet, i will tomorrow...

im assuming you know something?


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAnglerfishM
hearing things
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,644
Loc: Norvegr Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21791675 - 06/11/15 03:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
So....Does anyone see any problems with this paper?




Is there something amiss? Something perhaps regarding the apparent occurrence of P. azurescens in Germany, which, as far
as I know, do not grow wild in Germany? I've only skimmed through the paper, though.


--------------------




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTimmiTM
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 3
    #21791779 - 06/11/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There's a serious lack of taxonomically relevant detail in this paper (not to mention no genetic work). The argument that this is a new species is tenuous at best. They sound more like something in the Psilocybe serbica group to me.


--------------------
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJoust
Mycotographer
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: TimmiT]
    #21792177 - 06/11/15 08:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I was thinking the same, what about micro shots... not even one micrograph.

:mad2:


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeyowana
Hex10 line2
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 1,980
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Joust]
    #21792216 - 06/11/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A wood grower with a strong blueing reaction that contains no psilocin. That's pretty weird.Bit xenophobic to call it P.germanica when it has only been observed in parks growing on wood chips and bark. Would be interesting to find out where the mulch came from. I wonder if it's unique stipe would behave the same if they got it to fruit on agar? Never the less a neat find. Quite high in psilocybin as well.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViridis420
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 294
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Heyowana]
    #21792309 - 06/11/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:rockon:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAnglerfishM
hearing things
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,644
Loc: Norvegr Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Joust]
    #21792351 - 06/11/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TimmiT said:
There's a serious lack of taxonomically relevant detail in this paper (not to mention no genetic work). The argument that this is a new species is tenuous at best. They sound more like something in the Psilocybe serbica group to me.



Quote:

Joust said:
I was thinking the same, what about micro shots... not even one micrograph.

:mad2:




Looking at it again these things strike me as quite weird. Also the weight put into the measuring of potency seems unusal.


--------------------




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
The white stipes
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21792857 - 06/11/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
So....Does anyone see any problems with this paper?



Why do they assume this is a native species and not something introduced?


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



AMU Q&A


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 43 minutes, 11 seconds
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21794415 - 06/11/15 06:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So....No mycobank number?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJoust
Mycotographer
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21794726 - 06/11/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And how the hell does it have no psilocin, thats like not possible...


wait.. It isnt possible i dont think


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewoaronun
symbiont

Registered: 05/30/13
Posts: 534
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 3 days, 9 minutes
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Joust]
    #21795845 - 06/12/15 02:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

But the collected fruit bodies bruised blue, isn't that the reaction of oxidizing psilocin? Odd...


--------------------
~notice your next breath~


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeyowana
Hex10 line2
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 1,980
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: woaronun]
    #21795956 - 06/12/15 03:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

This bit re- P.germanica got me thinking.'The novel species was differentiated from other psychoactive taxons such as Psilocybe cyanescens, Psilocybe azurescens and Psilocybe bohemica in combination from features of the stipes and caps.'
Sounds a bit rudimentary in this day and age.
I googled P.bohemica aka P.serbica and it isn't as diminutive as they say. In fact its size and morphology are similar to P.germanica.
Pethaps someone can clear this up for me. I thought psilocybin was.converted into psilocin through an enzymatic reaction. The psilocin then oxidises causing bluing. P.semilanceata which they compare the alkaloid profile of P.germanica to doesn't show such extensive bluing as P.germanica.
Alan should be given some samples so a MODERN DNA test could help classify this new mushroom.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAnglerfishM
hearing things
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,644
Loc: Norvegr Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21795984 - 06/12/15 03:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
So....No mycobank number?




Which I assume then collapses the whole thing? Have you been in touch with the author(s)?


--------------------




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTimmiTM
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Anglerfish]
    #21796272 - 06/12/15 07:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe they haven't read the Melbourne Code?

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
So....No mycobank number?




Which I assume then collapses the whole thing? Have you been in touch with the author(s)?



The ICN requires that a publication cites an "identifier issued by a recognised repository" (ie mycobank). Without it the publication is invalid.

Another change in the Melbourne code is that a latin description is no longer required.


--------------------
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTimmiTM
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Joust]
    #21796285 - 06/12/15 07:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Joust said:
And how the hell does it have no psilocin, thats like not possible...


wait.. It isnt possible i dont think



I suppose it's possible. Psilocybin is a relatively stable molecule. If the mushroom doesn't have a functional phosphatase enzyme to dephosphorylate the psilocybin it may not have detectable levels of psilocin.


--------------------
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJoust
Mycotographer
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: TimmiT]
    #21796502 - 06/12/15 09:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TimmiT said:
Quote:

Joust said:
And how the hell does it have no psilocin, thats like not possible...


wait.. It isnt possible i dont think



I suppose it's possible. Psilocybin is a relatively stable molecule. If the mushroom doesn't have a functional phosphatase enzyme to dephosphorylate the psilocybin it may not have detectable levels of psilocin.





but will still have psilocin,,, thats why im confused, they should always have some amount. and GC/MS should pic it up, unless they did TLC or something else...


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 43 minutes, 11 seconds
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: TimmiT] * 1
    #21798272 - 06/12/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Which I assume then collapses the whole thing? Have you been in touch with the author(s)?





I have not. 

Yes, the name is invalid due to the lack of a mycobank number.

It is also invalid because it is Psilocybe serbica.  And Gartz must know this, I can't figure out why he would publish this crap!

Quote:

TimmiT said:
I suppose it's possible. Psilocybin is a relatively stable molecule. If the mushroom doesn't have a functional phosphatase enzyme to dephosphorylate the psilocybin it may not have detectable levels of psilocin.





It has lots of psilocin, as evidenced by the bluing.    This shows that you can't believe everything you read, even in a peer reviewed scientific journal.

TLC is a rather poor method to detect psilocin, if they were serious they would have used GCMS.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJoust
Mycotographer
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA Flag
Trusted Identifier
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21798498 - 06/12/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well this sucks...
Emails should fly!


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemannextdoor
The man next door...
 User Gallery
Registered: 09/14/11
Posts: 209
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Joust]
    #22331343 - 10/04/15 04:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hi!

Yesterday I was looking for the "psilocybe germanica" at the the Location, described in the paper. Unfortunately, the weather is really dry for the season this year. So I found no fruiting Psilocybe but i was able to collect some suspect mycelium, which was colonizing wood chips...

Hopefully I´ll found time to inspect the location after rain falls next time...

And again, I had a disappointing mail conversation with Gartz this summer about the status of this "species" - so, the publication of Gartz is very, very doubtful! Bu, let´s wait for some real specimen..:-)

mnd


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemeat_master_king
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Tacoma, Washington
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: A new Psilocybe from Germany [Re: Joust]
    #23730802 - 10/12/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

According to John Allen, Dr. Gartz had before, published faulty data on chemical analysis of 7 species he claimed to have analysed as psilocybian fungi. 

A year after Gartz' paper was published, Dr. stijve of the Nestles Corp. in Switzerland analysed the very same collected herbarium collections studied by Dr. Gartz and found that only one of the 7 species studied by Dr. Gartz possessed psilocybin and psilocin, the other six were void of the chemicals.  Here are references from john allen's bibliography of entheogenic fungi by allen and garzt 2000.

Jochen Gartz.  ------. 1986b. Nachweis von Tryptaminderivaten in Pilzen der Gattungen Gerronema, Hygrocybe, Psathyrella, und Inocybe. Biochemie und Physiologie der Pflanzen vol. 181:275-278.
Detection of tryptamine derivatives in fungi of the genera Gerronema (Rickenella), Hygrocybe, Psathyrella, and Inocybe. Two years later, Drs. Tjakko Stijve and Th. W. Kuyper, 1988. R refuted the chemical analysis presented in this paper by Jochen Gartz as false. In German.



The paper as listed in the CD:Bibliography by Allen and Gartz.  For refs. Used with permission from allen.

Stijve, Tjakko and Th. W. Kuyper.  1988. Absence of psilocybin in species of fungi previously reported to contain psilocybin and related tryptamine derivatives. Persoonia vol. 13(4):463-465.
Seven taxa of agarics previously reported in the scientific literature by Gartz (1986b) as psychoactive are analyzed for psilocybin and other related tryptamine compounds. All seven were found to be negative. See Page 137 for abstract images of the next three papers by Dr. Stijve.

According to allen as well as stijve, Gartz has conducted faulty analysis in the past and faulty identification as well.  Yet he has contributed much to the world of psilocybin containing fungi in Europe.  The pictures posted are from allen and gartz CD-Rom. "Teonanacatl: a bibliography of entheogenic fungi.  no longer available.

I am building a large website for posting his CD online.



meat_master_king


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Psilocybe Features? Bilge 2,423 6 04/05/03 06:28 PM
by cardboard
* very active Non-Psilocybe from New Zealand *DELETED*
( 1 2 all )
Reverend_Jim_Jones 10,485 38 04/22/06 08:15 AM
by inski
* Psilocybe Azurescens Season 2004
( 1 2 3 all )
ThePicker 22,107 51 11/12/04 11:03 PM
by Majestic
* always turn blue? psilocybes? otis5 1,046 3 09/11/03 09:00 PM
by falseaddiction
* non bruising Psilocybe?
( 1 2 all )
Polecat 3,727 29 08/28/08 02:42 PM
by smokdatkush
* Best Time/Place to find Psilocybe caerulipes?
( 1 2 all )
Richard_D_James 26,575 23 09/19/11 06:22 PM
by Heremushymushy
* Psilocybe azurescens help!!!
( 1 2 all )
Mr_Psilocin 18,182 30 03/25/16 10:25 PM
by Fert Nitty
* New Psilocybe species and weilii(TONS OF PICS!)
( 1 2 all )
Gumby 15,476 29 09/09/09 11:15 PM
by Gumby

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: ToxicMan, inski, Alan Rockefeller, Duggstar, TimmiT, Anglerfish, Tmethyl, Lucis, Doc9151, Land Trout
4,749 topic views. 3 members, 17 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.035 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.