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OfflinePyooreVizhion
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Registered: 06/03/15
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Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper?
    #21786356 - 06/10/15 12:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Forgive my ignorance here. As an amateur grower, I've been looking at shiitake strains recently, leaning towards the 75.

Aloha has the culture (which i assume comes on a master slant - wood, agar) listed for several hundred dollars. But one can buy a whole bag of wooden plugs for around 15 bucks from them. Is there much of a difference?

I assume that if there is at all, it's a senescence issue? or the expensive culture is a further isolate, a proven fruiter?

is this merely to save one the "hassle" of fruiting and isolating desirable genetics oneself?


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: PyooreVizhion]
    #21786466 - 06/10/15 12:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The master culture is going to be "Young". If you buy the plugs in bulk it will have been expanded significantly. For a small scale grow, it will work. But if you want to replicate the culture or store it long term, You're better off obtaining a slant.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #21787120 - 06/10/15 06:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

They are all the same strain.


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


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Offlinet3chnobily
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: drake89]
    #21787142 - 06/10/15 07:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

also once you buy a master slant the better culture houses will replace it if you lose it to contam


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OfflinePyooreVizhion
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #21787763 - 06/10/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:
The master culture is going to be "Young". If you buy the plugs in bulk it will have been expanded significantly.




so it is primarily, as i suspected, the "age" of the culture that one pays more for



Quote:

t3chnobily said:
also once you buy a master slant the better culture houses will replace it if you lose it to contam




this i didn't realize. good to know.


so it seems one could obtain a very nice slant oneself after a couple iterations by going plug-fruit-spore-fruit-clone?


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Offlinemcchieftan
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: PyooreVizhion]
    #21787825 - 06/10/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

When we create a viable culture through a spore cross we lose the original genetics of the starting culture... so it can be a bit of a roulette as to whether you will get another productive strain or something else


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OfflineMigraine
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #21787880 - 06/10/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:
The master culture is going to be "Young". If you buy the plugs in bulk it will have been expanded significantly. For a small scale grow, it will work. But if you want to replicate the culture or store it long term, You're better off obtaining a slant.




This does not make sense to me.

I have worked at Aloha and helped in their culture bank.

Aloha, as many culture supplying companies do, maintain a number of master slants for every culture.  Each of the slants may contain a different P value.  As the slant becomes unusable, new slants must be made - either slant to slant (does not change P value) or slant to dish to slant (increases the P value by one).

In my opinion, if you were to acquire plugs from any company, you would most likely be getting a culture with a P value close to if not the same as if you ordered a slant.

Think about it, How/Why would a company keep propagating a culture from dish to dish over time for it to become old. 

When you order plugs, the company has to go into their culture bank, remove a master slant for the strain requested, plate one or more dishes, produce spawn, and finally inoculate plugs from the spawn.  The company wants to deliver a quality product, so why think they are going to provide old or a sub-standard strain just for plugs.

The way a culture goes old is when it it passed around -- like via this web site.  the Aloha 75 is a culture that was acquired back in the 80's.  Aloha has the lowest P value cultures for this strain.  That strain has been passed through multiple members on this sight for years.  I received my copy of it from RR in 2009.  Consider that every time the culture has been passed to a new user, they plate it --- the P values goes very quickly and is NOT tracked.  If the users are not mixing their own agar mixes, then most will use a premixed version of MYA -- over time the mycelium becomes less aggressive because it's food source is not changing.  THAT is really what the P value tracking is attempting to accomplish.

The BIG value of purchasing a culture from a commercial culture bank is that you will know the actual P value of the strain and it will be replaceable should you lose yours.

I just replaced several cultures I lost from FP.  I just paid the shipping and received a new set.  THAT guarantee is part of what you are paying for.

Purchase your plugs, perform the required agar/plate work to acquire a good culture.  THAT just takes time but little money -- or buy the culture and the replacement capability.

Just my 2 cents - hope it helps.


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OfflineMigraine
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: Migraine]
    #21787992 - 06/10/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Aloha is currently growing out all of their Shiitake cultures and acquiring data on growth rate, size etc.

I believe their intent is to publish their results to give the potential buyer an insight as to expected results.

If you want current information, call Aloha -- they will gladly speak with you on the subject.


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InvisibleJumpingfish
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: Migraine]
    #21789660 - 06/10/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Migraine said:If the users are not mixing their own agar mixes, then most will use a premixed version of MYA -- over time the mycelium becomes less aggressive because it's food source is not changing.  THAT is really what the P value tracking is attempting to accomplish.




I always mix my own agar and often switch btwn MYA and PDYA or omit the yeast sometimes.  I do this because different situations call for different solutions.  Has this been proven or educated guessing or sheer speculation that mycelium gets bored/disillusioned with the same agar mix and degrades itself? 

Also composing your own agar I thought was essential because it allows you to adjust H2O content, nutritional content and many other variables that can be customized to specific cultures and situations.


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Why pay $300 for a culture when plugs are much cheaper? [Re: Jumpingfish]
    #21790339 - 06/10/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Just because a culture is older doesn't mean its a poor product. But anytime you start expanding mycelium, eventually you are going to start running into senescence.

The plug spawn I'm sure is far from that point, but its still not as young as a slant culture is either.

If one petri dish adds one P value. What would the P value be after multiple grain expansions and then becoming plugs? I'm sure whatever the number its pretty high.


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