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PitsnBieces
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Registered: 06/09/15
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is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance
#21786166 - 06/09/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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So the idea of taking up a spiritual path seems great in many ways to me. Totally makes sense to try to know the inner first before knowing the outer and this reques commitment to daily self-cultivation.
Beyond daily self-cultivation, purity seems to be something that is essential to be able to be sensitive to Dao and a staple to a sincere spiritual quest. Food consumption is easy enough to stay pure with for me and I know its for the best to eat well whether i want to follow a path to the end or not. Porn / PMO is something I struggle with a little bit and I know it needs to go for sure. The third thing regarding purity is drug use and that's where I'm really hungup. I feel like I can't commit to a path without being pure in that regard.
Right now my drug use isn't at a point i'd like it to be, and I at least want to stop for a while and get back to a place in myself where I can be absorbed in the present and be naturally joyful. I know that daily self--cultivation is a way to be higher like that on my own.
BUT - then I think.. what about getting to this point.. and THEN doing coke or G or mushrooms or whatever and having a good time with friends simply getting high.
I know that to really get fruits from a spiritual path one must be 100% sincere and authentic with their aspirations so I'm hoping to convince myself that it would be better to cultivate myself daily and strive for purity in all aspects. But would it really be worth it for a potential future, well-balanced 'me' to give up even occasional drug use for recreational purposes? Are the results and peace of mind greater than the euphoria of taking various drugs?
I'd hope to hear from people who've been at both ends of this spectrum but welcome everyone's thoughts.
Thanks!
P.S. one more thing that gives me a little hangup is about what is to be done when the goal is reached. if at enlightenment, there is nobody there to experience the joys of liberation then wouldn't it be beneficial to only go right up the point of liberation and perhaps stop there to enjoy for a while, even though there would still be suffering i mean at least something would be happening at those higher levels of being..
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance [Re: PitsnBieces]
#21786972 - 06/10/15 05:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The perks that come with rank make any practice worthwhile if one is suited to the discipline.
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deff
just love everyone



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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance [Re: PitsnBieces]
#21787420 - 06/10/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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any step in a spiritual direction is better than no step imo - so even if you can't do everything to make yourself apparently pure prior to starting on a spiritual path i think that's okay. as you progress spiritually, certain habits will likely fall away as you naturally lose interest in that sort of thing, but i don't think you need to be "perfect" prior to starting on a spiritual journey. start where you are, right now, and enjoy it
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance [Re: deff]
#21787659 - 06/10/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm reminded of a quote by Dalai Lama - 'To cultivate a good heart, that is enough.'
Great learning is sometimes mentioned as important, but others such as Dogen make the point that it's not essential to realization, and even suggest wide reading be given up immediately;
A lot of parts of it resolve into simplicity, in other words, unnecessary complexity can get in the way of realization;
for this and various other reason, fairly often it will occur to me that almost the entire path can be simplified to something such as 'always choose renewal.'
While there are many specifics which are interesting and worthwhile; keeping it simple many times is a good aid to success.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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youknowyou
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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance [Re: once in a lifetime]
#21787775 - 06/10/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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purification is why we are here in this life.
is it nice and easy to purify, maybe not as easy as to let our mind have fun or judging, hating, criticizing people and reality. much easier to hate sometimes then to try to be compassionate and loving.
maybe its also more easy to try to dream that when you die, life will be so much easier and we will go to paradise. or any other dream that we may hope to happen.
it may also be more easy to dwell in sensual desire, fucking, eating, playing.
but the question is: how satisfying is it really. are we really contented, satisfied or simply constantly running after the highs and trying to escape the lows.
problem is, I really think that everything that exist contain a bit of unsatisfactoriness for our mind. no experience can be truly satisfying, especially the experience of sensual desire. the body is constantly un satisfied, it aches, it hurts. we cannot escape the nature of reality which also contains suffering. chasing the highs and trying to escape the lows is foolish because its impossible. therefore, we live in a fantasy, in hoping that reality can really bring what we want.
is there something else we are missing right now because we dont have the right mind set? I think so and we all know so. we have all experience true bliss in psychedelic experience. why arent we so blissful sober?
Edited by youknowyou (06/10/15 10:45 AM)
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saenchai
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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance *DELETED* [Re: youknowyou]
#21788434 - 06/10/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Edited by saenchai (06/12/15 05:58 AM)
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance [Re: saenchai]
#21789253 - 06/10/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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One thing I've been noticing or exploring lately saenchai is the way that our existence relates to previous experiences. . .
I guess what I'm getting at is, there are several experiences or descriptions of experience of awakening that have certain things in common. .
For instance, the idea that we've never left; we've never actually been anywhere but home, the source, so forth; also that the self was never bound, that we were never truly illusioned, and things like that; or also that we never actually experienced birth, aging or death; and in a myriad of different ways, this same experience is recounted;
in essence, to put it into words, it'd be along the lines of: nothing is gained or lost - also, to quote Rumi, 'Don't grieve, everything you lose comes 'round to you in another form.'
In terms of joy and pleasure on the spiritual path, I think this is very true. Nothing is truly ever given up; for what do all these things aim at? Fulfilling some desire; but what we desire is very variable, and changing; it is also somewhat arbitrary -
it's also of an endless spectrum, unlimited; I mean there are truly unlimited facets of life. . .
how to describe this boundlessness? Nothing can relate to the experience of being one with the universe around you. . .
It's funny, I have known this for almost a decade, and having experienced it twice; kept in rememberance how important it is, and come back to it over the years,
never forgot to keep up the search for it until I found it;
and it's definitely worth it. Never forget that you've been there or doubt for a second you can get back there; you definitely can.
Of course please take this as a slip into free flow of info, as there's truthfully no pressure whatsoever from my direction, as to how you wish to live.
That is entirely up to you, and I tend to return to the non-grasping, non-attached state as I may, yet I may occasionally say something like, 'You can do anything,' with also hopefully occasionally saying, 'There is nothing to do,' and also occasionally sharing light-hearted, or joyful expressions of life as I happen to see them.
Anyway, I definitely do mean that nothing has to be really given up;
If you give up anything, has anything really changed?
We never possess anything, not truly, not lastingly, so giving up all possession of things, and simply accepting what is, what has been, and what may come -- that simple step, mayhaps the main key -- that isn't truly giving them up either, because one never really had them.
But also - Sure, continue to search for non-duality, as long as doing so doesn't harm the other living beings on earth too much;
which brings me back again to my central theme of practicality: what is good is what does good for earth; harm is harm.
There are several traditions' wisdom I draw from: among other things, I would say one of the greatest strengths in my life has been this fact, there's scarcely anything else that relates to the advantages of being able to examine, explore, assimilate and combine the different sources of wisdom, without prejudice or preference, simply imploring every wisdom tradition to offer up its secrets, to learn the highest and best that humanity's had to offer, and to live and engage with it in a day-to-day living practice.
And it helps to learn from them, for instance Tao's understanding of balance and harmony is beautiful and essential to a life - be it or be it not called by any of the same words, its the essential spirit of it which matters, the spirit of harmony and flow. To engage in the most beneficial ways for encouraging peace, kind living, and good health, and yet to also whole, without regard for results, this type of thing. . . is by far the most expedient means.
When I say 'Nothing has to be given up,' what I mean is a gradual transforming of desires, until one desires only what is wholesome and good; what benefits others and oneself most and best, and equally; and to strive for this ideal harmony, it is a fascinating and beautiful thing, because there really is a deep law that shows that surrendering to the moment, to the flow, is a powerful means of then riding the current.
We still want to swim - we don't want to drown; yet sometimes surrendering is just letting go, flowing down the stream a ways, and then getting back on a branch.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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saenchai
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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance *DELETED* [Re: once in a lifetime]
#21790169 - 06/10/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Edited by saenchai (06/12/15 05:56 AM)
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: is sincere devotion to a path worth it? searching for guidance [Re: saenchai]
#21790249 - 06/10/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I feel like I understand 
Your energy feels like really good energy, to my mind, and it's always good to hear/ see that kind of thing.
Your post reminds me of quite a few things actually, and just yeah, was good to see. I have a tendency to ramble on a bit, although it goes in cycles and other times I like to stay silent, hehe.
'And if I get lost, I really don't mind, 'cause I'll be doin' just fine.'- to be Free, by Mike Oldfield
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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