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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening
    #21783200 - 06/09/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So in some discussions of spirituality, there is much talk of gradual attainment or instant attainment;

For sure instant attainment breaks through a lot of attachment to views; spontaneous realization and awakening, and so forth,

yet gradual attainment is there to fall back on, so to speak.

A lot of spiritual practices have gradual awakening as their goal, with deep peace, meditation, concentration and others as stepping-stones along the way.

The best way to get to any state of awareness, or consciousness, any attainment or liberation that one wishes for or seeks, is whole-hearted devotion to reaching such a level. . .

this is one-pointedness or sole-hearted concentration, a very useful practice to engage in. . . a discussion of it could very well span a great deal of discussion.

In truth, one-pointedness, is among the best possible practices for realization and spiritual growth; it is simply a return to concentration, relaxed awareness. . .

Deep peace, and deep meditation, to me are like shelters along the way; they are not the ultimate, but when exist in a very, very blissful and peaceful state, that is a nice stop along the way -

like a drop in the river, we neither gain or lose anything - and waking up to that is the main point, yet along the way there are many refuges, of peace, life, and love. . and to spend a while under the boughs of a tree, is a good way to spend the day.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21783852 - 06/09/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What's the difference between meditation and single-pointed awareness?


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21784276 - 06/09/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
What's the difference between meditation and single-pointed awareness?



being able to stay single pointed on the object of meditation is meditation.

only when you're able to stay one pointed can you say that you are concentrated and meditating.


its very hard and demand a lot of mindfulness out of meditation in order to be able to really maintain concentration for long period of time in meditation.

maintaining mindfulness outside of meditation is primordial to progress.

its hard at first, but once you develop the 4 foundation of mindfulness in every moment, you understand a whole lot about how much we hurt ourselves and how much we are unhappy, stressed, ect.

mindfulness is the only way to be awake and aware and be now and be in this moment.

without mindfulness outside of meditation, deep concentration will be almost impossible when you meditate.

without mindfulness, we are not in this moment, we are in the past, the future, but not now.
the more we develop mindfulness, the more we are awake and in this very moment which is so beautiful yet so fleeting.


Edited by youknowyou (06/09/15 05:24 PM)


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21784792 - 06/09/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

thanks for asking :smile: dear friend.


my first thought was that there's not much difference; I would say that meditation would be considered the broader category, and single-pointed awareness is part of that broader category, as walking meditation, sitting, standing and others are part of it too;


your question was like a koan to me :smile:


my best description is that singled-pointed meditation is any time attention is on one object in particular; sometimes a physical object, sometimes a mantra, or something like this.


a very very nice practice is a candle-flame one. . a flame is placed about 3 feet from one, and then one meditates upon it for 2-3 minutes. . . this is a wonderful focus exercise. . .


so in general, one-pointed meditation is a concentration exercise; to help the mind function at its best, and with that, healthiest.


whenever I practice it now, it is usually an object in nature; such as a tree-top on the horizon;


I also feel it lends itself very well to meditation upon a holy name - such as Amida or the Medicine Buddha - Bhaisajya or Bekandze. . the reason for using one of these, is that great healing and protection comes to those who meditate on them..

Also of course, any stream, lake or river can be so wonderful, just because of the natural flow of such a place. . . are among the most uplifting, beautifying areas. .

and environment in general is very significant, as we're connected with the environment around us.


I haven't done that one, the candle-flame exercise, in many years but it's still part of my life.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21787384 - 06/10/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I agree with you completely about mindfulness being very important and I hear what you are saying about single-pointed meditation being an aspect of meditation on a larger scale. The reason I asked is because I guess meditation and mindfulness are pretty much the same thing in my mind. During mindfulness, the object of concentration is a person's thoughts. I think meditation is not so much an act, or something a person does. Meditation is a state of being which you can be in all of the time, regardless of what you are actually doing. :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (06/10/15 09:05 AM)


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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21787543 - 06/10/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
Yeah I agree with you completely about mindfulness being very important and I hear what you are saying about single-pointed meditation being an aspect of meditation on a larger scale. The reason I asked is because I guess meditation and mindfulness are pretty much the same thing in my mind. During mindfulness, the object of concentration is a person's thoughts. I think meditation is not so much an act, or something a person does. Meditation is a state of being which you can be in all of the time, regardless of what you are actually doing. :smile:



definitely, mindfulness must be practice outside of meditation if you want to progress.

when you keep, all the time, your mindfulness, meditation is much easier. the more mindful you are outside of meditation, the more mindful you will be able to be on the pillow.

but, mindfulness of thought is just one of the 4 foundation of mindfulness.

actually, mindfulness of thoughts must be constantly replaced by mindfulness of body. I hope you understand what I mean here.
thoughts, no matter how positive are always more gross, stressful then simply being aware of body movements (mindfulness of body).


mindfulness of thoughts means that you know what you think right now and if you think unwholesome thoughts, you replace it with wholesome thoughts. this is called the 4 supreme efforts concerning mindfulness of thoughts!
but, as soon as you are able to replace unwholesome to wholesome thoughts, you have to go back to mindfulness of body because its much more conductive to calm.

meditation is most of the time practice using mindfulness of the body anyways, so if your able to maintain mindfulness of body outside of meditation, first of all, life gets much easier, you are much more here, now, rather then in the past or the future. mindfulness purifies because when you are now and mindful you cannot hate, crave, resent, ect. you are, rather then trying to become.


Edited by youknowyou (06/10/15 09:38 AM)


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: youknowyou]
    #21787577 - 06/10/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes I agree with what you are saying about the body. Focus on the body, but be aware of the thoughts when they arise. Breath awareness for example, which is one of the methods a person might use for sit-down meditation as well. Which is kind of my point, that mindfulness and meditation are the same thing :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21787596 - 06/10/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
Yes I agree with what you are saying about the body. Focus on the body, but be aware of the thoughts when they arise. Breath awareness for example, which is one of the methods a person might use for sit-down meditation as well. Which is kind of my point, that mindfulness and meditation are the same thing :smile:



yes, meditation is the practice of mindfulness basically :smile:

however, you wont be able to reach the jhanas any other way then when you are in sitting meditation.

but mindfulness must be constantly practice inside and outside of meditation.
mindfulness is the entry door into the path, it is the first step to insight and is the first aspect of practice recommended by the buddha.


Edited by youknowyou (06/10/15 09:53 AM)


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: youknowyou]
    #21787608 - 06/10/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes I agree. Reaching states such as Samadhi etc are only possible during sitting meditation :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21787617 - 06/10/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, agreed completely; that's the main thing I was considering in reflection on my reply.

There is an aspect of single-pointedness in most meditation, I would say, although single-pointedness is primarily a part of concentration. .

although one thing that might make them distinct is meditation can be aiming to reach a


Hit preview to see if anything's been posted - Samadhi is a good word for it :smile:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21787650 - 06/10/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
Yes, agreed completely; that's the main thing I was considering in reflection on my reply.

There is an aspect of single-pointedness in most meditation, I would say, although single-pointedness is primarily a part of concentration. .

although one thing that might make them distinct is meditation can be aiming to reach a


Hit preview to see if anything's been posted - Samadhi is a good word for it :smile:



yeah, you cannot really be single pointed when mindful in every day life. its only in meditation that you really develop single pointedness concentration

meditation is to bring insight that will lead to nibanna while mindfulness in every moment is in order to purify ourselves.

I find that the word purification is not enough stressed

when youre mindful, you purify your mind and morality becomes second nature. without morality, no purification and no insight.

mindfulness and morality is the entry door.

that said, I find it very hard to stay mindful in life. I am very tempted by sensual desire. drugs surely dont help.
at least morality is now in me, but mindfulness is the next step for me.
thing is, the more mindful you are, the less the society, friends, conversation becomes interesting. its a bit like dissapearing. I find this a bit disconcerting as the more mindful I develop, the more I see how unwholesome everything else really is.


Edited by youknowyou (06/10/15 10:06 AM)


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21787660 - 06/10/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:

Mindfulness is being aware that our thoughts and the physical world is an illusion. But it's only during sitting meditation that we can become present enough to break through the illusion completely.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21787683 - 06/10/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, what I mean is single-pointedness is often considered among the most expedient means to realization; yet Samadhi is a state where all of this drops away, and reality is experienced as it is. . . words don't quite reach it, but 'not single, and not many' would be a possible phrasing of it, to use one of the four possibilities in Buddhist logic.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21787691 - 06/10/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
:thumbup:

Mindfulness is being aware that our thoughts and the physical world is an illusion. But it's only during sitting meditation that we can become present enough to break through the illusion completely.



mindfulness simply means being aware without judgments. mindfulness is knowing this present moment.

mindfulness of thoughts is simply by saying to our mind: where are you? are you now, or in the past, future, ect.

each time we say to our mind, where are you, what do you think, you become mindful of your thoughts at this precise moment and you can see if what you were thinking was wholesome or unwholesome.

as ive said though, as soon as you are able to replace unwholesome by wholesome thoughts, we must go back to mindfulness of body as this is much more closer to the reality of now then any thoughts we can think of.

any thoguhts push us away from this very moment.


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21787700 - 06/10/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
Well, what I mean is single-pointedness is often considered among the most expedient means to realization; yet Samadhi is a state where all of this drops away, and reality is experienced as it is. . . words don't quite reach it, but 'not single, and not many' would be a possible phrasing of it, to use one of the four possibilities in Buddhist logic.



without single pointedness, no samadhi can be achieved. they go hand in hand. its like the cause and effect.
if you are truly one pointedness for long enough, this will develop samadhi.
single pointedness cannot not develop samadhi actually if practice long enough.

but im sure you guys know that already :smile:


Edited by youknowyou (06/10/15 10:15 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: youknowyou]
    #21787708 - 06/10/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

just relax


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: youknowyou]
    #21787719 - 06/10/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Transforming desires is very possible; and it includes a lot of things.  Environment is a significant factor; what we hear, say, listen to, partake of; are all significant factors.

One thing I've learned is not to assume others' desires are similar to my own; we are all unique, while there is a universality, sameness or connection between all life, each person is a totally unique expression of a life which is so colorful, so rich, and has so many shades; that it's best not to assume others are just like us, or are different - that is, it honestly takes a few years.

If you're struggling with desire, one analogy may be of help. . . one of my friends expressed it so nicely. . the idea is, you simply set your desire aside for a while - park it, like a car. . No need to worry - it will still be there if and when you want it again; it's not going to disappear, just set it aside for a while, and see what that's like.

:sun:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: lessismore]
    #21787752 - 06/10/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
just relax



we are talking about the methods to indeed develop calm. a better method brings even deeper calm.


how to just relax in a fruitful way is important to know.


Edited by youknowyou (06/10/15 10:33 AM)


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: youknowyou]
    #21788726 - 06/10/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

youknowyou said:

mindfulness simply means being aware without judgments. mindfulness is knowing this present moment.

mindfulness of thoughts is simply by saying to our mind: where are you? are you now, or in the past, future, ect.

each time we say to our mind, where are you, what do you think, you become mindful of your thoughts at this precise moment and you can see if what you were thinking was wholesome or unwholesome.

as ive said though, as soon as you are able to replace unwholesome by wholesome thoughts, we must go back to mindfulness of body as this is much more closer to the reality of now then any thoughts we can think of.

any thoguhts push us away from this very moment.




Yes I understand what mindfulness is. I've practiced it continuously for quite some time. I was just trying to explain it in a different way in the context of mindfulness vs meditation. With mindfulness, if a person can stay totally present and aware of all thoughts as they arise, then they will be in a state of non-attachment to the physical world. They remain aware of the illusory nature of the world and of the mind without slipping into the unconsciousness of believing their thoughts to be true. But the physical world still exists around them. However, when a person does sit down meditation, they can penetrate the present moment to such an extent that the illusion of the physical world drops away.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (06/10/15 03:08 PM)


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: PocketLady]
    #21789149 - 06/10/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

This expresses it very nicely. 

One thing that's very interesting is single-pointedness; focusing on one object as a means of improving concentration, what's interesting is that there are no single objects; that is, nothing exists independently of those around it, so if I meditate upon any single object, it's not just that object, but also the space it's within, and so forth.  Just an interesting thought about one-pointedness and objects, I thought.

:sun:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Re: deep peace, deep meditation, instant awakening [Re: youknowyou]
    #21797001 - 06/12/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

youknowyou said:

how to just relax in a fruitful way is important to know.





I wanted to briefly comment here :smile:

yeah - how to relax is a very central topic to life. . . more so than almost any other. 

I remember when I was 15, one of my friends, a brilliant musician and composer, and I were talking, while at a dojo practicing aikido, with my uncle as the teacher. . . I said to him something along the lines of, 'I'm coming to realize, learning to relax is huge,' and he replied, with some words, 'yeah, it's almost everything,'

I don't remember the precise words but that was the gist of it. .

Nice conversation and a good point - So, how to relax: my best info to share would be this: there are hundreds, or thousands of little secrets to it, as well as many other things in life, health, and so forth; how to relax is one of the best and very connected with vitality, energy, and other things in life; there are many examples from nature,

Squirrels who sleep 18 hours a day, but are some of the most amazing acrobats while they're active, cats who lay about and sleep all day - these and others, since childhood, cued me in to the fact that there's more about life to learn from other animals, than we have so far :smile:

It goes on. . . anyway - how to relax is a good inquiry, and central to many things in life. .  the principle of selectivity applies here, along with most else in life - as to what practices you engage in, what tricks or secrets you learn and employ, about relaxation - there are some that are the top 99.5 percentile, just like in anything else. . . and if you are lucky, you can learn all these and use them together. .

Takes practice.

A couple I'll just throw out there are Aikido and Tai Chi, for good purposes of relaxation and health - but even these don't include all of the more valuable mechanisms.

Best :sun:

Oh, and three simple yet very high up there tricks are: hugs, primary; laughter, smiles, joy , about equal; and 3; petting a cat or a dog (especially a cat though). . . there's more to this than meets the eye.

Peace :sunny:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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