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RealityIsnt
EristicallyInclined

Registered: 04/29/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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R-Value and Insulation
#21782105 - 06/09/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Long time lurker - first post here!
Hey, all! I was hoping someone might be able to offer a little insight into r-value and insulation. I live in the subtropics where daytime temps throughout the year fall between the upper 70's and lower 90's. Now, I know a lot of people here will say "choose warm weather varieties" but... I'd like to grow some of the cool(er) weather species, such as shiitake and maitake. My concern is not so much with cooling my grow-room (basic HVAC) as it is with combating wild fluctuations in temperature and reducing that energy bill.
The Mushroom Cultivator states that walls and ceilings should be insulated at ~R-19 and R-30. Is this sufficient for my climate? Are there other concerns I should be taking into account? Money is tight, to say the least. I read much of what RR wrote about using the thermal mass afforded by burying his shipping container but that is impractical here considering that we aren't exactly sitting on a lot of topsoil and you can hit the waterline by digging with a spoon. Straw bale insulation in this rain and humidity would be a disaster - and hideous.
Advice? Insight? Maybe a link to a resource that could help me make some calculations?
This thread -> www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/17189156 asked some similar questions but didn't quite get at what I'm asking about.
Regardless of whether or not anyone can help me out - Thank you all! If wasn't for this forum I'd have never gotten as far as I have!
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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What kind of structure are you insulating?
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RealityIsnt
EristicallyInclined


Registered: 04/29/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: Gr0wer]
#21782690 - 06/09/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Debating exactly that -
I have access to shipping containers and can easily erect an insulated plastic greenhouse. Construction of a freestanding concrete building seems far out of my price range.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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I can get temps in the low 60s with my setup even while sucking in outdoor air into the 90s. My building is metal on the inside and outside. It goes metal-bubble foil insulation-wood stud with fiberglass insulation-bubble foil insulation- and metal. So basically the studs and fiberglass indulation is sandwiched between bubble foil insulation and metal. It rocks. You could erect a wooden fram inside a cargo container and put Fiberglas batts in. Then put bubble foil insulation over that and whatever inner walls over that. Could be plastic or metal.
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RealityIsnt
EristicallyInclined


Registered: 04/29/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: drake89]
#21782970 - 06/09/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's great! I was worried about using fiberglass - I read that any air infiltration or moisture would render it useless as an insulator. I take it you haven't had any such problems? How many inches of fiberglass did you use? And what do you mean by metal interior and exterior? Sorry if I'm overwhelming you with questions. The vast majority of literature out there is definitely geared towards cold-climate growers.
This seems like the way to go. Thanks
Edited by RealityIsnt (06/09/15 12:51 PM)
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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One or two window units would be able to heat and cool a shipping container especially if your in the shade. You can also consider finding an insulated container or a used insulated and possibly even refrigerated 18 wheeler trailer. My bro who runs an insulation company says 2" rigid board should be good with an r-10 value. With moving volumes of outside fresh air for air exchange having a really high r value would be worthless.
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: Gr0wer]
#21783228 - 06/09/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Another option for your interior walls is durarock with a smooth stucco finish. It's slightly more than drywall but designed for bathrooms. My brother highly criticizes that mylar lined bubble wrap. I used it on my mash tun because its a wet application. But the r value is like .5 and is expensive per sq foot for minimal gain. If your looking to waterproof ing try using poly or tyvec house wrap behind your durarock.
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RealityIsnt
EristicallyInclined


Registered: 04/29/15
Posts: 6
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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: Gr0wer]
#21783565 - 06/09/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You really think r-10 would suffice? Wouldn't a high r-value help maintain stable temperatures? Even though fresh air is being chilled and introduced some of it would be recirculated. I was under the impression that this mattered, significantly.
I'm going to look into that durarock now - thanks for the advice!
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
RealityIsnt said: You really think r-10 would suffice? Wouldn't a high r-value help maintain stable temperatures? Even though fresh air is being chilled and introduced some of it would be recirculated. I was under the impression that this mattered, significantly.
I'm going to look into that durarock now - thanks for the advice!
I would say that insulation matters significantly. Metal is like metal sheeting. Like what a roof or pole barn is covered with.
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t3chnobily
Strangest


Registered: 02/04/12
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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: drake89]
#21789879 - 06/10/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You could get the shipping container sprayed with foam to whatever R-value you wanted.
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: t3chnobily]
#21790847 - 06/10/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Spray foam is expensive, and you need a pro rig to spray it. The primary gain from spray foam is sealing gaps in wooden structures, containers don't have gaps except for the front doors, unless there are cracked welds which should be fixed. Spray foam is not rated to be exposed per building code, so your putting up walls over it anyways. Closed cell is waterproof and you could get away without putting up walls but not be within code, only thing is its 3X the cost of open cell which is not waterproof. Cellulose or fiberglass is much more doable for an everyday joe, you can rent a cellulose machine for free if you buy bales, look up "dense packing cellulose". If you use fiberglass BTW use a good particulate mask, shit is carcinogenic and actually banned like asbestos in many countries, American lobbyists for the win!!.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: Gr0wer]
#21791821 - 06/11/15 05:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The building my farm was previously located in had foam sprayed into it before we left. It was a metal building and the foam stuck without framing FWIW.
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t3chnobily
Strangest


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Re: R-Value and Insulation [Re: drake89]
#21794604 - 06/11/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Closed cell foam is worth every penny. There aren't going to be codes for a shipping container used for mushroom cultivation unless you leave someplace really strange. I'd tack up some studs about the depth of foam I wanted achieve on 4' centers and then cover the whole thing with roofing steel.
If you wanted to DIY the same method could be used with blue board(styrafoam insulation sheets)
Ideally you'd put the hole container in a big hole, spray it, and then back fill.
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