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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
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Cheapest, easiest bulk
#21781373 - 06/09/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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hey all, I am getting ready to start my grow and I want to do bulk. my plan was to make up some brf cakes with some gypsum and then when it fully colonized use one to colonize some pasturised straw. i was told to just put it in a new laundry basket in a wet room and it'll pin everywhere. he also said the more air the less contams (seems backwards) and contams only really matter during inoculation. should i add anything to the straw?
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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EastBayRay

Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 746
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk *DELETED* [Re: tryptkaloids]
#21781396 - 06/09/15 12:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by EastBayRay
Reason for deletion: c
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: EastBayRay]
#21781445 - 06/09/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Agar>oats> cvg> monotub. I would think that would be the quickest, cheapest and most reliable method.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: insanemike]
#21781488 - 06/09/15 01:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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wow thanks for the talk. learned a lot. also i need to stay away from agar until i get ahold of any
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Look up damion5050's elementary coir tek
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Collect horse manure. Mix it with verm 50/50 and pasteurize it
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: Aero]
#21781494 - 06/09/15 01:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: Aero]
#21781510 - 06/09/15 01:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: Collect horse manure. Mix it with verm 50/50 and pasteurize it
I love the way you think, Aero but him having to learn how to properly pasteurize wouldn't fit under the category of the "easiest" bulk method but would certainly save him some dough.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: insanemike]
#21781537 - 06/09/15 01:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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all I'm looking for is not spending any more money. i was told to try the laundry basket tek on Nan's nook and it sounds incredibly simple i was planning on learning proper pasteurization techniques already. i was thinking of doing something along those lines. mixing straw, gypsum and manure and putting it in a new laundry basket in a small room that stays the same temperature with a humidifier what do you guys think?
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: insanemike]
#21781540 - 06/09/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The first time I did "pasteurization" I just poured boiling water over the mix and let it cool down. It worked hahaha
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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I can't speak from experience bulk spawning cakes, but it does not make sense to me.
Cakes are essentially already a bulk grow. The 2 parts of verm provide the water and the 1 part of rice flour provides the nutrients.
The purpose of bulk substrate is mostly to provide water not nutrients. Since the cakes already provide that water, holding enough for a single flush at least, and can be rehydrated with dunks, there is no need to make the mycellium work to colonize a massive ammount of water providing substrate.
A typical monotub is a brick of coir, 2 qt verm, giving around 10 qts of bulk substrate, and uses 6 qts of colonized grain. Even if those quart jars are only 1/2 or 2/3 full, that's around 12 cups of brown rice flour worth of nutrition, the equivalent of around 48 PF cakes.
If space efficiency is the issue, as 48 cakes would be a bitch to fruit, you can always case you cakes. If you have a pressure cooker, wild bird seed spawn to bulk would be by far preferable.
I really like these tin foil pan shotgun minitubs which only cost $1 from dollartree. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15982524 Use the bulk substrate method detailed here with the pans above. They take about 1qt spawn and 2qt bulk sub. Since they are smaller, not all your eggs are in one basket. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19792837 <-- If there's one post that tells you how to do bulk, it's this one.
If you must use cakes but want space efficiency, you could dunk, then case and fruit them in a pan like the above. http://www.fungifun.org/English/Casing 50/50+ casing requires a bunch of supplies, so 60/40 verm coir casing can be used instead (http://www.shroomery.org/55/60-40-Vermiculite-and-Coco-Coir-Casing-Tek)
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said: wow thanks for the talk. learned a lot. also i need to stay away from agar until i get ahold of any
He really did teach you a lot.
Seriously how many threads in mush cult are like this that pop up all the time? The search function is your friend.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
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Last seen: 3 days, 3 hours
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: I can't speak from experience bulk spawning cakes, but it does not make sense to me.
Cakes are essentially already a bulk grow. The 2 parts of verm provide the water and the 1 part of rice flour provides the nutrients.
The purpose of bulk substrate is mostly to provide water not nutrients. Since the cakes already provide that water, holding enough for a single flush at least, and can be rehydrated with dunks, there is no need to make the mycellium work to colonize a massive ammount of water providing substrate.
A typical monotub is a brick of coir, 2 qt verm, giving around 10 qts of bulk substrate, and uses 6 qts of colonized grain. Even if those quart jars are only 1/2 or 2/3 full, that's around 12 cups of brown rice flour worth of nutrition, the equivalent of around 48 PF cakes.
If space efficiency is the issue, as 48 cakes would be a bitch to fruit, you can always case you cakes. If you have a pressure cooker, wild bird seed spawn to bulk would be by far preferable.
I really like these tin foil pan shotgun minitubs which only cost $1 from dollartree. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15982524 Use the bulk substrate method detailed here with the pans above. They take about 1qt spawn and 2qt bulk sub. Since they are smaller, not all your eggs are in one basket. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19792837 <-- If there's one post that tells you how to do bulk, it's this one.
If you must use cakes but want space efficiency, you could dunk, then case and fruit them in a pan like the above. http://www.fungifun.org/English/Casing 50/50+ casing requires a bunch of supplies, so 60/40 verm coir casing can be used instead (http://www.shroomery.org/55/60-40-Vermiculite-and-Coco-Coir-Casing-Tek)
hey man, thanks for your experience.. my main purpose was higher yield. if I can make one cake yield as much as half my jars by adding some straw and poo which I can most likely get for free if the person knew why i needed them than i'm definately going to do it. I'm just looking to grow more with less.
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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Well, the truth is you may not get much more, because you are stuck with the amount of brown rice flour in the cakes for nutrition, which is only around 1/4 cup per cake if I recall.
There will be some nutrition in the straw/poo, but it will take a lot of energy to colonize. The main change will most likely be that your yield will come mostly from a single flush if you spawn PF cakes to poo/straw. I haven't done it so I can't say for sure.
I would suggest, if you are hellbent on sticking with cakes and not switching to grains, you make one of those shotgun tubs with a dollarstore pan I linked above, spawn maybe 6-8 cakes to poo/straw in it, then compare the results to drunk/roll PF cake yields and see if you get a better yield before throwing all those cakes in a basket together and hoping it doesn't contam and actually yield better.
You can easily convert your PF jars to hold grains by cutting a round piece of tyvek from a priority mail envelope and putting it inbetween the jar lids and rings, then use your half pint jars for grains (can be noc'd with lid pops in SAB or by putting a glob of rtv silicon above one of the holes on the tyvek for a open-air self-healing injection port.) Better yet spend a $3 and get 6 pp5 twist top containers from the dollar store for pressure cooking grains in.
I also wanted to try cake-spawning when I started out, it seemed like a safe stepping stone, but I started with grains and cakes at the same time, and never gave cakes a second look.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: Well, the truth is you may not get much more, because you are stuck with the amount of brown rice flour in the cakes for nutrition, which is only around 1/4 cup per cake if I recall.
There will be some nutrition in the straw/poo, but it will take a lot of energy to colonize. The main change will most likely be that your yield will come mostly from a single flush if you spawn PF cakes to poo/straw. I haven't done it so I can't say for sure.
I would suggest, if you are hellbent on sticking with cakes and not switching to grains, you make one of those shotgun tubs with a dollarstore pan I linked above, spawn maybe 6-8 cakes to poo/straw in it, then compare the results to drunk/roll PF cake yieldsand see if you get a better yield before throwing all those cakes in a basket together and hoping it doesn't contam and actually yield better.
Drunk/ roll pf cakes should perform better. You can easily convert your PF jars to hold grains by cutting a round piece of tyvek from a priority mail envelope and putting it inbetween the jar lids and rings, then use your half pint jars for grains (can be noc'd with lid pops in SAB or by putting a glob of rtv silicon above one of the holes on the tyvek for a open-air self-healing injection port.) Better yet spend a $3 and get 6 pp5 twist top containers from the dollar store for pressure cooking grains in.
I also wanted to try cake-spawning when I started out, it seemed like a safe stepping stone, but I started with grains and cakes at the same time, and never gave cakes a second look.
The drunk/roll pf cakes should perform better. Atleast from experiences, I always seem to perform better when I'm drunk.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: insanemike]
#21786249 - 06/09/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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i'm not dead set on cakes at all it's just what i'm most familiar with. do i need a quart jar/s/ for grain spawn or can i use half pints? basically what i'm getting is that i won't see any improvement in using straw and poo as apposed to pf cakes?
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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mycomaniac1402
Myco Maniac :-)



Registered: 01/25/15
Posts: 257
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
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Re: Cheapest, easiest bulk [Re: insanemike]
#21786257 - 06/09/15 11:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I dont have a pc anymore and use cakes for spawn all the time. They work great. Ive never had a problem fruiting from plain coir, or straw. Those are the two main substrates I spawn to with the only addition being coarse Vermiculite.
Id go with a normal mono setup , the reason being in a laundry basket the humidity needed to maintain a pin set would be very difficult without a green house setup and humidifier. A mono is easily maintained with sporadic misting when needed.
Spawn anywhere from 4 to 6 cakes depending on the size of your tub, crumbled after the Vermiculite barrier is scraped off, rinsed and throw into a Ziploc to crumble into small pieces. Mix your substrate, pasteurize and mix in your cake spawn well. Cover and let colonise then fruit
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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Here are two threads on the matter:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15090903 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16080327
The general consensus seems to be that your yield will not increase a great deal as opposed to fruiting the cakes, but your risk of contamination goes up massively.
You can adapt your PF jars for grains, but the bottom line is it will be annoying and inefficient. They are good for culturing small amounts of grains if you decide to do some cloning/isolating/grain2grains in the future.
6 Quarts of grain in a bulk grow should yield 6oz dry first flush, and around 12oz dry total. Here is, in my opinion, the minimum you should expect to invest to seriously increase your production and prepare for bulk grows:
$3 6 1qt Polypropylene (PP5, recycling #5) plastic containers $5 Tube of RTV Silicon for self-healing injection ports $10 20lbs bag of Wild Bird Seed $6-10 Fruiting chamber (6 Foil pans with plastic lids or 60qt tote + polyfill) $3 Coir or Peat to mix with your verm for casing (usually required with poo/straw as I understand it) ~$31 A drill and extremely sharp thin knife or a hole saw is required for the 60qt tote monotub. A Soldering Iron is required for the aluminum pans with plastic lids, and is also helpful for making the self-healing injection ports on the plastic containers. Dollartree is your friend.
If you can't invest that, just stick to cakes, unless you don't have a place to fruit them.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
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Last seen: 3 days, 3 hours
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All I have is 12 4oz jars, a pc, access to poo/straw and a 4x8 room with solid temp and Shelving and a fuck load of options and my print is on the way. I just dont know where im going with the print.. havn't made cakes or started colonizing anything. Still picking a method. My plan was to put the basket up high with a humidifier in this small room
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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mycomaniac1402
Myco Maniac :-)



Registered: 01/25/15
Posts: 257
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
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Thats definitely not true and I think things like this are said out of opinion more than experience... I didn't read the links but im speaking from experience... Although some might experience different. In my gallery those mushrooms drying in the oven and the harvest from that tub was spawned using 4 brf half pint cakes. Now with an exceptional cake grow it might compare but all in all the mushrooms get much larger on bulk as opposed to cakes so even if the amount was the same, size definitely is much better coming off a coir tub for instance. And ive done cakes many times . I've had a few great grows from cakes for sure but it seems to bea bit better spawning to something else.
And think about a dozen cakes, they can turn into 3 48quart tubs at 4 cakes a piece. There will almost definitely be a difference in yeild between 12 cakes vs 3 tubs using the cakes...
But for sure grain is more efficient .. takes less time and is better all around. I go this route because I dont have my pressure cooker anymore, it works great and I get good results from spawning cakes, enough that its not a huge issue for me at the moment to wait till I can save for the pressure cooker I used to have .
My old All American was the single most useful piece of equipment ive ever had and had MANY other uses
Edited by mycomaniac1402 (06/10/15 05:06 PM)
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