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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center
    #21777839 - 06/08/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center

Ho Chi Minh City has launched a center for drug users with the use of Suboxone, the first facility in the country to offer this treatment option.
Sponsored by the US National Institute on Drug Abuse and the French GIP ESTHER (Network for Therapeutic Solidarity in Hospitals’ Public Interest Group), the center in Go Vap District plans to offer treatment to 200 drug users in the next two years.
According to Dr. Le Truong Giang, chairman of the Public Health Association, drug users will be supplied with free doses in a year.
“After two years, relevant agencies will assess the program for further expansion,” he said.
Ho Chi Minh City has more than 19,000 documented drug users.
According to Dr. Nguyen Tan Binh, director of HCMC Health Department, injection drug use has prompted spreads of HIV, Hepatitis B and C in the community.
The city has offered Methadone treatment for more than 2,000 drug users since April 2014.
Suboxone is a prescription medication that can help treat heroin addiction and dependence on other opiates. It is a combination of buprenorphine, which can be used as a stand-alone treatment for opiate dependence, and naloxone, which is used to treat opiate overdose.
By combining buprenorphine and naloxone in a single tablet, Suboxone may relieve heroin withdrawal and act as a deterrent to injecting.


The launch ceremony of a Suboxone treatment facility for drug users in Ho Chi Minh City's Go Vap District. Photo: Minh Hung


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21777983 - 06/08/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

mixed feelings.

I personally quit heroin with suboxone. At first I thought suboxone was a miracle drug because it got rid of withdrawal symptoms so well.

But then I tried to quit suboxone too after a while. Suboxone is just another opiate, a replacement addiction. Not to mention, it has a longer half life than heroin, so suboxone withdrawals last longer, which really bites.

It was a really helpful drug for getting me off of heroin, but at the same time it is a dirty trick for profit and should be replaced with ibogaine IMO


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21777988 - 06/08/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Suboxone saved my life.  I've been on it for 3-4 years now and I can function like a normal person.  I'm down to 1.75mg a day will be coming off it in early july.

I'll take suboxone over heroin dependency any day.  IMO it's not perfect but it's the best thing we've got


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21778004 - 06/08/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Suboxone saved my life.  I've been on it for 3-4 years now and I can function like a normal person.  I'm down to 1.75mg a day will be coming off it in early july.

I'll take suboxone over heroin dependency any day.  IMO it's not perfect but it's the best thing we've got



that was pretty much how I felt about it before I quit too. But it sounds like you're doing a legitimate long term tapering possibly guided by a doctor. Probably smoother than the way I did it.

You have heard of ibogaine though right?


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21778015 - 06/08/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah i'm getting IT in early july.  My suboxone use has all been under a doctor so will IT.


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21778526 - 06/08/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I personally believe in cold turkey, that's how I got clean. Without that I don't feel I would be where I am now when it comes to progress. Replacing heroin with another substance you still need is at best delaying the inevitable. If you want to live completely without these substances you will have to stop altogether at some point and it will still be uncomfortable i.e. some sort of withdrawl.

I quite cold turkey and a week later I was entirely free from the need for opiates, I've been clean of them for 5 years now.

I mean, if it helps people good, I just don't really see the point. :shrug:


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21778557 - 06/08/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Yeah i'm getting IT in early july.  My suboxone use has all been under a doctor so will IT.



oh is ibogaine legal in england? very cool


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21778575 - 06/08/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'll be traveling to baja california, mexico.


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InvisibleStargate
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21779815 - 06/08/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

To those of you who kicked the addiction by cold turkey or even meds such as suboxone, I just wanted to say that I respect you for doing so. Beating an addiction can be a bitch.


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21780654 - 06/08/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
mixed feelings.

I personally quit heroin with suboxone. At first I thought suboxone was a miracle drug because it got rid of withdrawal symptoms so well.

But then I tried to quit suboxone too after a while. Suboxone is just another opiate, a replacement addiction. Not to mention, it has a longer half life than heroin, so suboxone withdrawals last longer, which really bites.

It was a really helpful drug for getting me off of heroin, but at the same time it is a dirty trick for profit and should be replaced with ibogaine IMO



I disagree. Suboxone is a great tool because while taking it you can get your life together and eradicate your addictive behaviors. As a heroin addict you should know there is a lot more to addiction than the physical withdrawal. Suboxone allows the addict an opportunity to become a regular working member of society again. Once all his\her other parts of life are in order then they can start gradually lowering the dose.

A big reason why people relapse after Heroin withdrawal is because they have no structure. Suboxone allows the addict to first build the structure before eventually slowing ending the medication. Building a solid structure or foundation can take years and Suboxone can be there for addict during this time while also no inebriating him\her or furthering addictive behavior.

Methadone is a whole another animal and really isn't based around recovery. It's more about maintanance for the hopeless.


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Magicman69]
    #21780892 - 06/08/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

interesting :thumbup:


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Magicman69]
    #21780951 - 06/08/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Explained it perfectly:thumbup:

I see my suboxone doc once a month.  She is totally cool with IT.  I've tried to come off of suboxone before and failed twice now.  It's not very hard the withdrawal but it lasts A LONG time.  I'm hoping IT will heal me or allow me to heal myself of what ever is wrong with me.  I'm really scared about withdrawing while tripping and being in some foreign country feeling so crappy.  Scared is putting it lightly, i'm terrified. 

I've been to rehab twice, failed the doctor oversighted ween twice now.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.  Since suboxone half life is so long I need to stop taking it july 3rd and I don't arrive there till july 6th.


Edited by Cognitive_Shift (06/08/15 09:52 PM)


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21781292 - 06/08/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I had read that ibogaine prevents withdrawal symptoms?


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OfflineOrgasmicBanana
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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21781754 - 06/09/15 05:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

My opinions are based on my direct experience:

Suboxone is a weird solution to opiate addiction. Having naloxone mixed in is, imo, purposefully deceitful. It gives suboxone this good clean image, but it's just another opiate. Claims that users of suboxone can't get high from suboxone or from injecting heroin or something are 100% false, and laughable. I am not sure if the actual company that manufactures it makes those claims but at this point it doesn't matter because people think that is what suboxone is.

I have bought 16mg strips and the fact that they even exist is another thing that is offputting about suboxone. I have never taken more than 2mg at a time for withdrawal. So if there is any truth to the "you can't get high from heroin while on suboxone" myth, it would be only because you have actually raised your tolerance to opiates so much that your old dose doesn't do anything for you anymore. (not an improvement)

Addiction is terrible because something is controlling you, you have to find the money and the guy to get the fix by whatever time or else. Suboxone maintenance only switches who is controlling you. I am not against maintenance therapy in general, just the drugs that are generally used : suboxone and methadone. If you finally decide to quit or can't continue to afford the medicine, instead of five days of withdrawal you might be looking at a month. How is that better?

Any opiate will help with withdrawal. Any opiate could be used for maintenance or for tapering. Of all the opiates out there, is suboxone really the best choice or even a good choice?

Here's a radical idea, let heroin addicts taper off heroin with heroin. Let heroin addicts use heroin for maintenance therapy. I guess that's too much for society right now.

And for people who aren't completely mentally fucked up and at rock bottom and stuff, just get over it, be sick for 5 days and be done with it.


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: OrgasmicBanana]
    #21782554 - 06/09/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

taper off with heroin?

Maybe somebody with a little more willpower than I could do this.

Right off the bat I'm thinking suboxone might be the best opiate for such a thing. Can you suggest a better one a little less laughable than heroin?


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Magicman69]
    #21782663 - 06/09/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:

A big reason why people relapse after Heroin withdrawal is because they have no structure.




I agree with this statement. However, from my personal experience, I feel that opiates in general change the chemistry of the brain in a negative way that supports addiction. I feel that is as much a reason why people relapse as anything else. It changes the brain in a way where a person is more narrow minded, more selfish, more prone to depression, this is all just my opinion from experience of course.

Personally, I doubt using methadone or subboxone would have helped me much, I was able to start feeling better a week after I quit with no need to maintain any kind of level of opiates in my body. I got more energy and alot more positive.

Don't get me wrong, it still took a lot of will, I still needed to change behaviors and stop hanging out with the same old loser crowd. But I got a hobby (mushroom hunting, hence why you even see me here) and had the will to turn myself around.

No hate, much respect to anyone who has gotten off that shit, or is attempting to, do it your own way, but that's just it. Different things work for different people and I personally feel subboxone just delays the inevitable and wouldn't have helped me very much personally. I feel I would be worse off if I had chosen that route.

Of course, this is all from a perspective five years post cure.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: OrgasmicBanana]
    #21783150 - 06/09/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgasmicBanana said:
My opinions are based on my direct experience:

Suboxone is a weird solution to opiate addiction. Having naloxone mixed in is, imo, purposefully deceitful. It gives suboxone this good clean image, but it's just another opiate.




The naloxone is to prevent IV abuse (which doesn't work at all) but IVing suboxone doesn't produce a rush or anything worth abusing anyway.

Bupe isn't just another opiate.  It's derived from thebaine, it's an opiod and it's a partial agonst.

I see a lot of hating on suboxone, but I don't see anyone providing a better solution.


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21788218 - 06/10/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:


I see a lot of hating on suboxone, but I don't see anyone providing a better solution.




I can tell you what worked for me, not saying this is some perfect, infallible method or anything, but it got me to the other side.

Taper down to a reasonable level. Get a shit ton of movies, weed, water, and antihistamine pills. Get to a comfortable place where you can lay around for a week and not be bothered. I realize some of this is easier said than done.

Lay around watching movies in bed whilst smoking a lot of weed. Take antihistamines when the drippy nose and eyes and sweat get too bad, and stay hydrated. Antihistamines work wonders on withdraw symptoms. You might even get some decent sleep if you take enough.

By day 4 or so things improve dramatically. If you feel like it, you might take a walk at any point during this (provided you trust you won't go score), it helps keep your mind off your suffering.

Will you be incredibly uncomfortable? Yes, yes, you will. But seriously, good music and constantly smoking weed during this period makes it much closer to tolerable.

That's how I did it. Watched literally every Twilight Zone episode ever made. It did suck, don't get me wrong, but I'm so glad I did. No pain no gain, as they say.

After that, get a hobby, something detailed, time consuming, and constructive. Stay away from dumbasses (i.e. pretty much anyone you used to hang around while using). Make new friends. All that is the hard part, really.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21805223 - 06/14/15 07:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

OK but its just another OPIOID then because it feels good gets you high takes away withdrawals but can be overused and then builds tolerance and results in withdrawals when you stop suddenly.

Cognitive Shift, I like most of your posts we have both been on this forum for a long time and I have loads of respect for you :smile: If suboxone is working for you I am really glad, and I know there are benefits.

I personally don't see the point of switching drugs for maintenance therapy, and I don't trust a drug that makes all these obviously false claims.

Using heroin to treat heroin addiction is laughable? I guess that's how brainwashed we all at this point. I always tell my friends I never had a drug problem until I ran out of drugs, a joke, but true.  What is the problem with taking a small amount of medical grade heroin for maintenance? What is the inherent flaw? Why not taper down from heroin with heroin. We know in more progressive, compassionate countries that addicts who are given heroin tend to eventually wean themselves off without being told to. Pretending heroin is bad suboxone is good is just retarded. I'm not saying suboxone is all bad or heroin is all good, I just don't see the great benefit of suboxone that makes it worth the $$$$ and it makes all these false claims and I think its sneaky corporate bullshit to make a buck off a social problem.

I am also not against combining that with the cold turkey method. Toe_Jam is right, if you have no outside help, taper down a couple days then just sit through the withdrawals for a couple days. My main problem with that is that I have a job so I can't take days off, but sometimes working takes my mind off how uncomfortable my body is. Depends on my job at the time.

Also, kratom. I don't have to get into that but if you want something non addictive that gets you through withdrawals, bam. No RX needed


Edited by OrgasmicBanana (06/14/15 07:54 AM)


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Re: Vietnam launches first Suboxone treatment center [Re: OrgasmicBanana]
    #21805782 - 06/14/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgasmicBanana said:
OK but its just another OPIOID then because it feels good gets you high takes away withdrawals but can be overused and then builds tolerance and results in withdrawals when you stop suddenly.



It doesn't get me high.  It's a partial agonist.  This is why it's done under doctor supervision (once a month) to properly ween down. 

I don't notice a tolerance building, then again I litterally can't abuse suboxone.  Even if I IV it there is no rush or sense of wellbeing.  Suboxone is for opiod dependant people.  Sure it's trading one addiction for another but it works a hell of a lot better then anything else.


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