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Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Yea dude. Blew me away. I split a chocolate with pirate at the romp. Chocolate had one gram in it. We were both like wtf! I've often said substrate is a key role in potency, but let's not open that can of worms.
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur]
#21782158 - 06/09/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Pasty, start a new thread about substrate potency
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur]
#21782203 - 06/09/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: Half a gram? Damn. All MS too I assume. Maybe it depends more on substrate used because I know you are a huge hpoo advocate.
Quote:
azur said: Yea dude. Blew me away. I split a chocolate with pirate at the romp. Chocolate had one gram in it. We were both like wtf! I've often said substrate is a key role in potency, but let's not open that can of worms.
Environment, substrate materials used, and genetics all play key roles in potency. Genetics is where the potency is already fixed, high or low. Conditions & substrate materials used are what brings the genetic make up of the fungus grown to it's full potential. Grower's talent.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: hamloaf]
#21782207 - 06/09/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: Half a gram? Damn. All MS too I assume. Maybe it depends more on substrate used because I know you are a huge hpoo advocate.
Quote:
azur said: Yea dude. Blew me away. I split a chocolate with pirate at the romp. Chocolate had one gram in it. We were both like wtf! I've often said substrate is a key role in potency, but let's not open that can of worms.
Environment, substrate materials used, and genetics all play key roles in potency. Genetics is where the potency is already fixed, high or low. Conditions & substrate materials used are what brings the genetic make up of the fungus grown to it's full potential. Grower's talent.
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,918
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur]
#21782211 - 06/09/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said:
Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: Half a gram? Damn. All MS too I assume. Maybe it depends more on substrate used because I know you are a huge hpoo advocate.
Quote:
azur said: Yea dude. Blew me away. I split a chocolate with pirate at the romp. Chocolate had one gram in it. We were both like wtf! I've often said substrate is a key role in potency, but let's not open that can of worms.
Environment, substrate materials used, and genetics all play key roles in potency. Genetics is where the potency is already fixed, high or low. Conditions & substrate materials used are what brings the genetic make up of the fungus grown to it's full potential. Grower's talent.

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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said:
Quote:
azur said:
Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: Half a gram? Damn. All MS too I assume. Maybe it depends more on substrate used because I know you are a huge hpoo advocate.
Quote:
azur said: Yea dude. Blew me away. I split a chocolate with pirate at the romp. Chocolate had one gram in it. We were both like wtf! I've often said substrate is a key role in potency, but let's not open that can of worms.
Environment, substrate materials used, and genetics all play key roles in potency. Genetics is where the potency is already fixed, high or low. Conditions & substrate materials used are what brings the genetic make up of the fungus grown to it's full potential. Grower's talent.


-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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^^^ all the more reason that a "cube is a cube" is a totally asinine phrase. It was back in the day and it still is now.
Like saying a "human is a human" or "car is a car".
YOu can pretty much blame that whole phase on rr...he did it to stop "strain" discussion in mush cult.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: hamloaf]
#21782314 - 06/09/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: Half a gram? Damn. All MS too I assume. Maybe it depends more on substrate used because I know you are a huge hpoo advocate.
Quote:
azur said: Yea dude. Blew me away. I split a chocolate with pirate at the romp. Chocolate had one gram in it. We were both like wtf! I've often said substrate is a key role in potency, but let's not open that can of worms.
Environment, substrate materials used, and genetics all play key roles in potency. Genetics is where the potency is already fixed, high or low. Conditions & substrate materials used are what brings the genetic make up of the fungus grown to it's full potential. Grower's talent.
I have my doubts about how much substrate can affect potency. There was a thread on substrate composition and additives to increase potency a while back. Here was my thoughts on it at the time.
Quote:
That discourse in that link does not demonstrate that an increase in tryptophan increases potency, but it does show that it is the source for the bioconversion. Thats never been in question. The real issue is will simply providing more cause an increase? I suspect no. Simply put an increase in availability by no means indicates that a culture can make use of it. I'm no biologist but I think of it like this. You have two brf cakes each inoculated with a different isolate. Isolate A is a very potent strain and isolate B is an average potency strain. They both come out strong and average respectively. Yet isolate B had access to as much tryptophan and by extension as much tryptomine as culture A. Yet potency was weaker. Why? Because it was unable to make as effective use of it. Therefore adding more will only make a difference insomuch as the culture is able to utilize it.
This I suspect is the driving force behind potency differences with other species as well. Speaking of other species there has been some (older) research that suggests the ability of certain fungi to convert tryptophan into alkaloids is dependent on zinc ions in the substrate. I believe this was demonstrated with aspergillus. So assuming that alkaloids in higher fungi are produced in a similar manner the simple addition of more is not going to make it immediatly bio available.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21782330 - 06/09/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
preschooler said: ^^^ all the more reason that a "cube is a cube" is a totally asinine phrase. It was back in the day and it still is now.
Like saying a "human is a human" or "car is a car".
YOu can pretty much blame that whole phase on rr...he did it to stop "strain" discussion in mush cult.
Like I said before, the expression "a cube is a cube" is still relevant today.
Unless you guys prove it otherwise, I only see 3 main differences among all the 50+ cube varieties:
- albinos
- brown or brownish spores
- PE
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I have my doubts about how much substrate can affect potency.
Me too.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan] 1
#21782352 - 06/09/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Quote:
preschooler said: ^^^ all the more reason that a "cube is a cube" is a totally asinine phrase. It was back in the day and it still is now.
Like saying a "human is a human" or "car is a car".
YOu can pretty much blame that whole phase on rr...he did it to stop "strain" discussion in mush cult.
Like I said before, the expression "a cube is a cube" is still relevant today.
Unless you guys prove it otherwise, I only see 3 main differences among all the 50+ cube varieties:
- albinos
- brown or brownish spores
- PE
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I have my doubts about how much substrate can affect potency.
Me too.
lol Well generally speaking yea, isn't a car a car?
I think the idea of strain is to describe the differences among "cubes". And realistically even pe is still a cube Even if it has a higher potency than others.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan]
#21782396 - 06/09/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I downloaded this pdf a few months ago. It's 90+ pages of a study done in 1978 called Aspects Of Secondary Metabolism In Basidiomycetes. It goes into great detail about psilocybin. The download is at the bottom of the page. Enjoy.
http://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/21293?show=full
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#21782406 - 06/09/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
preschooler said:
Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Quote:
preschooler said: ^^^ all the more reason that a "cube is a cube" is a totally asinine phrase. It was back in the day and it still is now.
Like saying a "human is a human" or "car is a car".
YOu can pretty much blame that whole phase on rr...he did it to stop "strain" discussion in mush cult.
Like I said before, the expression "a cube is a cube" is still relevant today.
Unless you guys prove it otherwise, I only see 3 main differences among all the 50+ cube varieties:
- albinos
- brown or brownish spores
- PE
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I have my doubts about how much substrate can affect potency.
Me too.
lol Well generally speaking yea, isn't a car a car?
I think the idea of strain is to describe the differences among "cubes". And realistically even pe is still a cube Even if it has a higher potency than others.
I think you didn't read all our previous posts. It's not that simple.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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Green Bastard
Stranger

Registered: 02/26/14
Posts: 199
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: hamloaf]
#21782459 - 06/09/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: Half a gram? Damn. All MS too I assume. Maybe it depends more on substrate used because I know you are a huge hpoo advocate.
Quote:
azur said: Yea dude. Blew me away. I split a chocolate with pirate at the romp. Chocolate had one gram in it. We were both like wtf! I've often said substrate is a key role in potency, but let's not open that can of worms.
Environment, substrate materials used, and genetics all play key roles in potency. Genetics is where the potency is already fixed, high or low. Conditions & substrate materials used are what brings the genetic make up of the fungus grown to it's full potential. Grower's talent.
Epigenetics.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: insanemike]
#21782571 - 06/09/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Really I'm less concerned about the obvious macro difference between cubes and more interQuote:
insanemike said: I downloaded this pdf a few months ago. It's 90+ pages of a study done in 1978 called Aspects Of Secondary Metabolism In Basidiomycetes. It goes into great detail about psilocybin. The download is at the bottom of the page. Enjoy.
http://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/21293?show=full
Nice, looking forward to reading this one
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan] 1
#21782778 - 06/09/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Quote:
preschooler said:
Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Quote:
preschooler said: ^^^ all the more reason that a "cube is a cube" is a totally asinine phrase. It was back in the day and it still is now.
Like saying a "human is a human" or "car is a car".
YOu can pretty much blame that whole phase on rr...he did it to stop "strain" discussion in mush cult.
Like I said before, the expression "a cube is a cube" is still relevant today.
Unless you guys prove it otherwise, I only see 3 main differences among all the 50+ cube varieties:
- albinos
- brown or brownish spores
- PE
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I have my doubts about how much substrate can affect potency.
Me too.
lol Well generally speaking yea, isn't a car a car?
I think the idea of strain is to describe the differences among "cubes". And realistically even pe is still a cube Even if it has a higher potency than others.
I think you didn't read all our previous posts. It's not that simple.
Maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_variation would be a better term than "strain".
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#21782828 - 06/09/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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i dig that
so I've been growing this genetic variation for a few years now, it packs a punch man
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Aero]
#21782856 - 06/09/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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genetic variation suits well as the difference between varietals really is variation in genetic frequencies.
nicely broken down to its non ambiguous scientific term 
not much to argue with, anyone that wants the term to be clear and non ambiguous and also to be scientifically correct would only be able to agree!
or they are just putting obstacles in the way of progress imo
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/09/15 11:39 AM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21782931 - 06/09/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm down for using the term "genetic variation" and to make the term even simpler, we can just use the word "variety" since variety is the root word of variation.
Edited by insanemike (06/09/15 11:57 AM)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: insanemike]
#21782971 - 06/09/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said: I'm down for using the term "genetic variation" and to make the term even simpler, we can just use the word "variety" since variety is the root word of variation. 
Back to square one. Variety is fine, considering that it refers to something that it doesn't exist for me
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 15 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte] 2
#21782997 - 06/09/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Every time you do multispore inoculation you mix hundreds, if not thousands of strains in the same jar. It makes absolutely NO difference if the spores come from the same print or from prints from halfway around the world.
The definition of a strain is NOT the name some vendor put on a print he mailed out. The definition of a strain is two compatible hyphae 'mating' to form dikaryotic mycelium. Hyphae from a PR print are just as capable of mating with each other as with hyphae from a Tex or any other print. It's the same species so they're all compatible. There is NO competition between strains of the same species. Once they become dikaryotic, they continue to fuse by a process known as anastomosis, again with NO competition. Hybridization between 'strains' occurs in every single multispore project. RR
Does anyone have a source other than another RR quote that supports that is the sole and correct usage of the word in regard to mycology? I can't find anything. I think the correct term may be indivual or indivudal strain which RR possibly shortened to just strain.
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