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OfflineCouperj
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Grey] * 1
    #21775057 - 06/07/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's funny you should bring this up Pastywhite. I've been dabbling in this hobby for years now and have tried numerous races of cubes. I've also munched on numerous wild cubes and you could say that I have plenty of experience in the subjective differences in races.

For me personally,  I've always been partial to Asian races. For whatever reason, they just have a more visual quality to them. In Mexico, I was given the opportunity to munch on numerous wild cubes which, I found to be less potent than many of the cultivated cubes I have come across, but there could be many reasons for the variables and it was very difficult to keep them fresh for any length of time, as we were in the jungle. But, once you ate enough it didn't matter and since the weather was right, it was all good.

Anyhow, I've specifically avoided the PE race for its notable difficulty in growing. Well, it's been a long time and I've gotten the hang of this, so I decided to give the Envy a go. At the same time, I  did some Burma's as well. Now, this has all been ms, but I will start by saying that the PE has been different every step. I put a lot of care into my work and have been continually rewarded. The biggest difference for me with PE is the length of time that it took to fruit. Which was approximately right on  schedule at 2 months. Most other cube races that I have worked with seem to put out at about a month and a half to three weeks. PE just took its time.

Well, let me tell you, it was worth the wait. When that fateful day had arrived and I was finally able to sample the fruits of my labor I picked about 4 fruits totalling about 50 grams. I ate one fruit that was about ten grams fresh (about a gram dry) and so did my partner.  Within 40 minutes I was having oev's and felt nothing but great.  At about the two hour mark we split the remaining fruits and within the hour I found myself completely floored, as I watched patterns dance across the wall synchronized to the rhythm of the music, while my mind lay open. It was absolutely magical.

Well, I never tried the Burma's, but I have a friend who I have given quite a few of them to. The first time he tried them he came to me and said that they were just great!  He told me he has a friend that grows them so he wasn't sure about eating them dry. I reassured him that you want them cracker dry for preservation.  Anyhow he loved them. So he's been munching the Burma's for a while and I see that I've got some extra envy, so I toss him some of the PE. The weekend goes by and I run into him and he sees me, stops what he's doing and gives me a hug. He says thank you and then he says "keep doing God's work," (which strikes a nerve, but I'll save that for another day). Then he starts to turn away, then stops looks back at me with the most serious expression and says,"ah, those things you gave me, were they different?"

And as I was in a rush I gave him a quick rundown on race/variety strain terminology and then explained that for the most part, a cube, is a cube. Sometimes they feel different,  but there are too many variables for the bioassay of them to be consistently reliable.

That is, until now. He says those were special. He's mentioned to me that he usually has a particularly high tolerance to these things and will eat about 7 grams dry to start. Now mind you, he's been snacking on those Burma's for a while now probably weekly, so he should have a bit of a tolerance.  He then tells me how he has never had an experience like this one before and that he ate 7 grams of those PE's and went nuts for a bit. He said it was an incredibly deep, beautiful, and eye opening experience. All while wearing the aura of an afterglow.

And lastly, there is my own personal experience of eating fresh PE's the second time. This time I ate approximately 3 to 4 small to medium sized fruits. I had picked them about a week prior and put them into a Tupperware container with a paper towel and then into the fridge. It turns out they had stored quite well. The few mushrooms I had consumed quickly began to take hold and before I knew it, I had become completely immersed an a very visionary and deep experience. When my eyes were closed I was just enveloped into a cascade of fractal colors. For a moment I even felt the fear, but then I remembered and had one of the best mushroom experiences I have had in a very long time.

Nothing compares to the experience of fresh mushies, but in my personal experience PE has surpassed and out shined all of my expectations. My second favorite race would be PESH. In summation, I will conclude by saying that PE has been my and many others' favorite Cubensis to date. These things are just amazing and incredibly (surprisingly) potent! TLC goes a long way, but PE truly is in a class of its own. At this point, apart from novelty, I don't see much purpose in cultivating other races of Cubensis.

Forgive my wall of text. I've have been pondering this very question for quite some time. Although they take just a little more time, they are as hardy and vigorous or more so as any other cube race, but for me they have been exemplary of what a cube should be.


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(¯`'·.¸(♥)¸.·'´¯) But suddenly you're ripped into being alive. And life is pain, and life is suffering, and life is horror, but my god you are alive and it is spectacular!


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21775105 - 06/07/15 05:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I personally dont like the addage "cube is a cube". Its usefull to explain that cubensis have the same growth parameters, and that they mostly differ cosmetically, but like this thread is discussing I think it might be a bit more complicated.

I think most cube varieties have the same potenential for the most part, short of a couple weirdos, but when people say "cube is a cube" it kinda sounds like "just pick one theyre all the same" to me haha.

I dunno, I get stupid excited working with a new variety :lol:

As far as the technical stuff, I have nothing to add other than right on, this is a cool thread


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InvisibleLeopardMan
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21775107 - 06/07/15 05:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I have yet to grow a CRS that didn't drop brown spores. Easy to distinguish.




I have a different experience with PF Redspore. Sometimes it drops red/brownish spores, sometimes it doesn't. Anyway can you tell the difference between CRS and all other cubes when the veil is still intact? Honestly I don't think so.

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Are you sure it's just differences in environment or do genetics you have play a role too? I've seen tubs have different types of fruits all throughout the tub. Some short and tall some hollow and some with that white membrane in the middle. In the same conditions.

I've recently switched to trays. 4 in a tub. Although hydration may be different, conditions are the same, and the variances are even greater. I'm not saying that conditions don't effect the fruit body, just that genetics play a roll too and they had to have come from the parent fruit body.

I'm not sure how much a parent fruit body has to play on the genetics of its next spores generation. I don't think anyone really knows. I'm just making a hypothesis since some parents can keep throwing the same cosmetic genetic as well as yield/potency. I rarely see a weak ms fruit these days.




Of course genetics play a role. But the tubs you've seen were probably MS, and it's normal to have different fruits in the same tub with MS. Even clones sometimes can show some clear differences.


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You have to die a few times before you can really live.

-Charles Bukowski-


Edited by LeopardMan (06/07/15 05:23 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan]
    #21775715 - 06/07/15 07:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I have a different experience with PF Redspore. Sometimes it drops red/brownish spores, sometimes it doesn't. Anyway can you tell the difference between CRS and all other cubes when the veil is still intact? Honestly I don't think so.




If the redspore was poorly stabilized or destabilized through successive inbreeding that would easily explain normal spores being produced. However your missing the real point which is not whether red or brown spored varieties can drop purple spores but rather how commom is it for other varieties to drop brown spores. Sure its not impossible but certainly far less likely.

Also funny enough brown spores aside, I do find that CRS does have otherwise common traits as well. Every grow I have ever done with them produces pins that have caramel colored caps. Never reddish or dark brown. Always a caramel color. Its too consistent across any grow of that variety that I have ever seen to chalk up to environment. Especially when they are fruiting in the same substrate and style mono right next to my KSSS which always have reddish capped pins and thus far have never produced brown spores.

The main thing to keep in mind that every domestic variety is inbred. IMO that is as crucial to the value in this discussion as it has already been well documented that over inbreeding is detrimental. So even if one does not believe that varieties represent any kind of stabilization of a larger pool of traits tangible or intangible,  it certainly matters when trying to reconcile poor performance due to excessive selfing. PF classic is the best example but many are starting to suspect the recent issues with PE blobbing is due to being overbred.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21776058 - 06/07/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I have yet to grow a CRS that didn't drop brown spores. Easy to distinguish. Now when you cross the spores of CRS and AA+ you get normal looking fruits with black spores for the first generation. The second generation will display a wide range of fruits some exhibiting one reccessive or another. Some have neither and very rarely you can find one with both. If you take spores from that dual trait fruit it will eventually stabilize. Workman did it with APE.

Now this is very selective but the path of mutation is clear. There is no reason to believe that it cannot happen over time in regionally isolated populations. Granted it would take millions of years for even slight changes to manifest and its highly possible that any real mutations might not even be apparent to the average person. But to assume it won't is contrary to everything we know about natural selection.



How exactly have you been trying to cross them? Strains taken from different populations in different locations aren't usually very compatible. In this sense (breeding) a cube isn't simply a cube and strain certainly does matter.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Kizzle]
    #21776079 - 06/07/15 09:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

there's only 4 mating types in cubes wouldn't there always be a 25% chance no matter what.


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Couperj]
    #21776086 - 06/07/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Kizzle]
    #21776112 - 06/07/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I have yet to grow a CRS that didn't drop brown spores. Easy to distinguish. Now when you cross the spores of CRS and AA+ you get normal looking fruits with black spores for the first generation. The second generation will display a wide range of fruits some exhibiting one reccessive or another. Some have neither and very rarely you can find one with both. If you take spores from that dual trait fruit it will eventually stabilize. Workman did it with APE.

Now this is very selective but the path of mutation is clear. There is no reason to believe that it cannot happen over time in regionally isolated populations. Granted it would take millions of years for even slight changes to manifest and its highly possible that any real mutations might not even be apparent to the average person. But to assume it won't is contrary to everything we know about natural selection.



How exactly have you been trying to cross them? Strains taken from different populations in different locations aren't usually very compatible. In this sense (breeding) a cube isn't simply a cube and strain certainly does matter.




I have been pretty open about what I did. Simply took two fresh prints from each variety and picked up spores from each with my loop. Then put it to agar and hoped and prayed. I got lucky with that first gen but even luckier with my second finding a fruit so quickly that exhibited all the traits I wanted it too. I had fruited about 20 different subs with no luck and then found an invitro pin on an older plate that had dropped the brown spores and looked pale enough. Cloned it and the resulting clone was perfect. F3 generation from spores of that fruit is going into fruiting tomorrow and I have great hopes for it.



Grow log in progress. . .


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OfflineSksoul
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: invitro]
    #21776210 - 06/07/15 09:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I haven't tried KSSS or CRS, PE or AA+, mostly cultivating some wild cubes I found in Borneo 2 years ago as well as B+ and some exotics... But I can't for the life of me look at the picture of most cubes and tell them apart. I guess I bought into the "cube is a cube" theory from the get go and never gave it much thought after.


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Offlinekn33b
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Couperj]
    #21776220 - 06/07/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have been wondering about this for some time now, done a ton of research, and finally decided to grow my own PE. You guys are getting me pumped now, the tray just started to explode with pins a couple days ago.



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All written material by this individual is for entertainment purposes only.
All events described or pictures displayed therein are ficticious and do not necessarily reflect the author's opinions or intentions.


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Invisibleazur
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21776247 - 06/07/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You know what is weird? Any time i grew pe outside, they looked like other "regular" cubes. Hmmm


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A cube is NOT a cube.

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21776265 - 06/07/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I can't explain how it makes a difference but the less genetically similar they are the less chance of a successful merger that results in a stable strain.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur] * 1
    #21776268 - 06/07/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Can you tell the cubes in my sig apart? Its actually a trick question but I bet most people can get the one on the right 50% right.

Quote:

azur said:
You know what is weird? Any time i grew pe outside, they looked like other "regular" cubes. Hmmm




Now that is weird. You are suggesting that the PE phenotype is a response to elevated CO2? Very cool indeed.


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Invisibleazur
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21776281 - 06/07/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yea pasty. It's strange. I mentioned this once before in i don't know what thread. It was just pushed over by someone telling me i was wrong. But i did several outdoor grows and always tgrew my subs outside and they would continue to grow. They NEVER looked like pe. High co2 or high rh?  Outside they have lots of fresh air and the sub was dryer than in a tub.
Anyone else grow pe outside?


--------------------


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FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur]
    #21776291 - 06/07/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I never have but its now my goal to try. If it would fucking rain here just maybe I might get lucky. Like a desert right now.

I think I saw a Dreamster1 PE grow that was outdoors and his looked normalish. Beefy as fuck but much more normal. Azur ya need to get some pics of that, plz :thumbup:


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Invisibleazur
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21776313 - 06/07/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'll look through an old phone and see if i have any


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FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
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Invisiblewowimflabbergasted
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur]
    #21776321 - 06/07/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Invisibled0urd3n
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21776342 - 06/07/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: d0urd3n]
    #21776356 - 06/07/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have some pe subs burried in a few spots and it has been raining the past 5 days but haven't seen anything pop up yet. If they do pop up, I will post some pics.


Edited by insanemike (06/07/15 10:12 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: insanemike]
    #21776372 - 06/07/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:seriousthankyou:

Do me a favor if some do and see if you can print anything off of them. Be really interesting to see if they can drop spores outside. I know that PE used to be able to drop spores once upon a time, even indoors.


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