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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan]
#21784307 - 06/09/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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LeopardMan said:
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bodhisatta said: if you took shiitake 75 took a print. grew MS shiitake on sawdust blocks. took anything that fruited really well and took a spore print. and so on for 10 spore to spore generations. you would reasonably expect that those spore prints of your shiitake would on average grow much better from MS on sawdust blocks than any wild print or even the original print from the shiitake 75 first generation grow. or no?
No, because it's still a print (and btw growing shiitake from a print is no joke).
Also, think of mutants. Take a print from a mutant fruit. Do you have more chances to get mutant fruits your next grow using that print? No.
Like I said before, and you didn't answer me, even a 1% genetic variance can produce huge differences.
Chimpanzees and bonobo are a proof of what I am saying 
Anyway we should have more threads like this one 
I say yes but they don't go through the trouble considering you can just sell a strain like 75
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: TheEaglesGift]
#21784360 - 06/09/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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TheEaglesGift said:
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Pastywhyte said: Can you tell the cubes in my sig apart? Its actually a trick question but I bet most people can get the one on the right 50% right.
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azur said: You know what is weird? Any time i grew pe outside, they looked like other "regular" cubes. Hmmm
Now that is weird. You are suggesting that the PE phenotype is a response to elevated CO2? Very cool indeed.
Outdoor Penis Porn, here is the thread.
That's interesting. You know low light can produce tall and slender stipes, small caps, reduced spore production and slower development. All of those traits are common in PE aren't they?
It could be they're missing the gene needed to produce certain photorecptors and the photorecptors they do have only react to wavelengths you would mainly find outdoors. Just a possible explanation.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Kizzle]
#21784512 - 06/09/15 06:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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An interesting hypothesis kizzle. I have been planning some experiments to try with PE. That might make for an interesting variable for one of them.
I would like to say that so far this thread has gone very well. Some excellent disscusion has occured, good links have been posted, I feel like I have learned a few things here. My kudos to all participants for some great discussion and for keeping things civil. The fact its not been locked is an accomplishment. Great stuff shroomery
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Subnet Mask



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 903
Loc:
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21785421 - 06/09/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Indeed.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Subnet Mask]
#21786533 - 06/10/15 12:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: insanemike] 1
#21786692 - 06/10/15 02:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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i feel some of you dont understand dna and genetics fully!
even with inbreeding you only narrow the genetic frequency of traits. no traits are ever lost!
just like traits from monkeys are still in us! or dinosaurs in birds. or even simpler way to understand is the reason why ginger hair will never dissapper!
the information in dna of living things of the same species have the same dna basically.
the amount of information contained that is identifiable to you is miniscule in comparison to the whole and only is a small amount of information( or should i say a lack of information) at 1 or 2 loci. the bits of information are called allele's.
what makes the outward expression is a tiny adjustment! this adjustment in dna is like switches being turned on or off.
actually,when you get past basic genetics this too an over simplification.
what defines our differences in the same species is more about what is turned off than on. traits turn off not on... if new traits are added to the genome or turned on this is a gain in new information and splits the species this is called evolution and the difference is if the new information it taken up and becomes dominant in the ratios and not reabsorbed the mutation in dna becomes a new species and is regarded as such.
so differences between the same species are only what is turned off in the genome not on.
the dna sequence is basically identical apart from protein bonds on parts of the genome that serve to mitigate the effect of the info contained. the protein represses to information making it unreadable or turning off.
when we read a dna sequence we dont get the full story we see fully the bits that are turned on but not the ones that are off, we get say a shadow of what is there, but they are there none the less but are considered 'unreadable' in the system unreadable in the sense it has no impact visually to us or the dna itself.
as the dna is basically identical the only thing that defines if you are you and i am i is the protein bonds that keep out certain information allowing other information dominance.
what defines the dna systems in the same species is what information is missing from it not whats contained, this holds true for all living things that have dna.
this is why there is only subtle differences in dna between chimps and us and yet we are so different.
all cubes as they are the same species have basically identical dna and if they came from a common ancestor have all the same 'traits' contained the only possible thing to chance in each line is frequency the traits that appear.
this also is the reason now most sclerotia producers are concidered the exact same species! as the dna sequence is almost identical the only difference is the protein bonds that affect expression!! meaning scientifically they are the same species!!
in essense you could get a PE fruit from any variety its just the frequency to express the phenotype is 1 in a million in that line ect.
in genetics info is never lost ever! you can half the percentage of expression each generation but never get to 0% i.e if you got the expression of the trait down to 1% of fruits.. the next generational max would be 0.5% then 0.25%... you can go forever and will never ever get to zero and have no expressions of this trait!! its just not how genes work!!
so as you see its like a reset but its not that simple as that as frequencies are altered in a predictable way. broseph mengele and hitler found that out the hard way!
the only thing you can do is alter frequencies so the choosen phenotype/genotype dosent appear as often or appears more often!! the only way around it is by mutation or hybridisation and if the mutation/hybrid is taken up and becomes dominant in the ratios then is classified as a split to a new species.
this led the germans to bacically say jews was a mutation and in effect a different species and pronounced their superiority as the had good lineage.( jews have certain genetic conditions, aspergers is one and a blood disorder is another) that appear high in the ratios of there group only. and tried to say that justified there annihilation.
so the only thing to separate any given variety is the separate way the frequencies have swung and express themselves!
this is genetics be that human, animal, plant or fungi if it has dna it happens this way
end of story
cubing, backcrossing, and selfing all only adjust frequencies of traits that are expressed and can never remove them!! sorry that is fact
the genetic difference between variety's is just varying genetic frequencies. if they have different frequency's they are considered different lines. no person worth their salt would advocate merging the lines as this could be detrimental and is never done!
if we have a variety name then it has history, and incite can be drawn for the number of grows of each variety. not only showing us past genetic frequencies of the variety but also where that line is heading in the future. its all about keeping track.
the same variety say golden teacher can have total different frequencies depending on the source(person who prints) of your spores and the generation ect!
its only by having a name that we can make conclusions of where the varietys frequencies are heading in the future!! as we know where it came from and can see where it is heading! by having a name it creates is history or lineage 
without names what system would we use to keep these lines distinct and separate ?  as this is a must and anyone who understands genetics should understand about conservation of genetic information and the reason we keep lines separate!! the golden rule of breeding is you can cross lines but you must also preserve the lines they came from intact! this is not a rhetorical question, just the fact its there deserves an answer even if its beyond our ken to find it at this time!
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/10/15 06:23 AM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#21786698 - 06/10/15 02:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Pastywhyte said: One thing that keeps being overlooked is that because we are selfing or inbreeding every time we print, there is zero way that each generation of prints can have the same depth of heterozygosity as the previous generation. Something is minimized each time narrowing the possibilities. Of course real impact past a half a percent once domestication has been achieved, lets say after the 10th generation, would take many printings in succession, perhaps hundreds. But its still a factor.
Interesting convo, even if it keeps going around in circles. A couple things mentioned that might be worth underlining, because the IDEA of the reset is a little off maybe, and so is the IDEA of mutants and what happens with a genetic bottleneck.
Last first, in the wild when a isolated populations get down to just a few reproducing phenotypes (that being roughly the "substrain" level) with limited ability to exchange genes, genetic diversity is lost. To bring endangered species back from the brink it often takes crossbreeding programs among the various exemplars to restore vigor. And vigor is a lot of what we're talking about when it comes to so-called "strains".
Mutants, you can disbelieve it if you want but I've seen it happen in my own culture - I was growing Ps. cyanescens, a print I got from Homestead way back in the day, no less, and they were absolutely bog-standard cyans, growing on wood chips, fruiting nicely in a converted fridge I used to have, with lights installed and some sort of jiggery on the thermostat on my part. One day (or night) the fridge got into a runaway on temp, I think it was in the summer, and the tray I had at the top was exposed to what should have been heat-death temps. I fixed it and left it in there and it recovered, but it's growth habits had changed. Prints I took from this culture actually gave rise to a "strain" that fruited well on straight rye - Ps cyan won't do that for shit - and commenced fruiting at room temp on up to common cube culture temps. But the fruits were like cyans and potent as fuck - the only thing that comes close in cubes is PE.
I grew that strain for quite a few years and it was absolutely outstanding. Did away with the need to refrigerate the cyans and give them special subs. I have tons of pictures of these fruits on slides somewhere. I also have a print in the fridge that I resurrected a few years back (and it had been stored 15 years at the time) after an extended water soak of spores. None of the first attempt at resurrection were anything special, but I only got a few spores to germinate. May go back and work with it some more sometime soon.
My point is, FWIW, and I don't disbelieve the evidence of my own eyes and trips, since I WAS there, is that the strain mutated at the point of surviving heat death. And in light of more recent biology I have to think it was probably an epigenetic change, capable of being passed on to the offspring, an adaptive alteration to a "change" in the environment. I suspect the Ps cyan have the ABILITY to adapt to all kinds of environmental changes, but god knows how they actually work this magic. Still, what makes epigenetic change possible is just that it IS adaptive in nature, and a response to the environment.
PE could be that kind of mutation, and since it appears it throws normal fruits from time to time (as do almost all "strains" that have been genetically isolated long enough to fix certain traits), which might indicate the alterations that go to create the "strain" are not DNA coding sequences, but rather control of expression through epigenetic methylation or something similar. The thing is, almost NOTHING was known about any of this process in rather recent memory.
What the so-called RESET then might be is more like a removal of the epigenetic markers, there are ways to do this IIRC.
To me it's interesting to work with wild traits (Purple Mystic was a recent case and it yielded (so far) a fascinating number of mostly-stable variants, and easily). Personally I got it in one generation producing fruits in captivity that looked like the predominant wild expression. And though it gets all controversial like, the few trips I had from it were really FASCINATING. I like the wild ones, they seem to have stories to tell, and they seem to be able to pick the moment when they want to tell those stories, if that makes sense to anybody.
Well that's enough for today. I got my PE back on agar again and I'm pretty damned pleased:
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21786734 - 06/10/15 02:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
What the so-called RESET then might be is more like a removal of the epigenetic markers, there are ways to do this IIRC.
thats a very smart angle to look at this from
as we know breeding does nothing to remove any traits at the genome this can explain the differences
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/10/15 03:33 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: mustangbob3] 1
#21786945 - 06/10/15 05:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks primal for chiming in, I was hopeful you would. Mustang I like your points on lineage and history. Indeed I feel that what happens after the variety is given its name to be as interesting and important as what led up to it. A lot of people are getting very typical results growing cronicr's KSSS and while I still find those results to still be really typical for KSSS they seem more focused. My KSSS came from Wilsolvem (who isolated the peyote strain that has been mentioned a few times here) and I find my results closer to his with lots of weird mutants in the mix. Both are consistent in the uber thick stipes and smaller really dark caps that KSSS is known for, yet the ones from will seems less stable.
Now many are going to just take that as proof of the cubes are cubes but i see it more as an expression of two different directions that are producing fairly consistent results. Forget the name KSSS and focus on the fact that crons look like they came from cron and wills look like they came from will. That has real significance.
Perhaps the real issue is not that names mean nothing and more that they don't tell us enough. An imperfect system but the best we have.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21786983 - 06/10/15 05:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Perhaps the real issue is not that names mean nothing and more that they don't tell us enough. An imperfect system but the best we have.
exactly 
and getting spores from different sources will show different expression ratios as they have been 'selected' from different sources.
sending the ratios 1 way or the other at each progressive generation.so creating two distinct and different behaviours in the same line.
someone elses ksss selection could be different ratios to both of them again and so on ad infinitum.
names all we have to keep line separate so we can gauge these very effects on the genepool of each variety form each generation to another to see where they are heading in the future as a whole with our current process of 'mass' selection and printing.
we can say with certainty all spores/spore prints are not created equally! they all contain the same potential as the rest of the genepool but show varying frequencies of visual expression of phenotype/genotypes. some are more likely to favour or show more occurrences of a given pheno than others.
oneday( prob unlikely but could happen) we may need to revive old prints as the ratios in modern lines have been altered over lots of generation and a loss of vigor from poor selection has occurred.
to correct this and quickly swing the ratios back again you would infuse the two again in effort to try to reduce the frequency of what you dont want and increase the frequency of the ones you do!
the same could be done with wild prints and modern lines. opening up the genetic library to restart the selection process and select for what ever traits you have in mind that may have not been included in the stabilisation process of that modern line and as result has a low amount of alleles being dominant to make a matching pair to create the expression so its seldom is seen visually in the genepool.
giving back and altering the frequency of expression of the allele you have choosen and to increase the amount of occurrences of that trait being dominant in any given mating.
one other point i would like to make is our understanding an science of genetics in general has come leaps and bounds ahead of our typical methods of id and classification that hasnt changed much since victorian times and that relys on distinguishing features of the mushroom fruitbody or spores to confirm genus.
this has been proved inaccurate. seem we are slowly closeing the gap as dna gives us truths.
more and more mushrooms are changin genus as mistakes were made based on the old way of classification and dna has revealed them to belong to different species than imagined.
one such mushroom is pioppinos. they look like and seemed to be Pholiota sp and was labeled as such - Pholiota aegerita now we know that its genus is actually - Agrocybe making it Agrocybe aegerita some people dont want and resist change but as our understanding grows so must our definitions.
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/10/15 07:30 AM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21788059 - 06/10/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Thanks primal for chiming in, I was hopeful you would. Mustang I like your points on lineage and history. Indeed I feel that what happens after the variety is given its name to be as interesting and important as what led up to it. A lot of people are getting very typical results growing cronicr's KSSS and while I still find those results to still be really typical for KSSS they seem more focused. My KSSS came from Wilsolvem (who isolated the peyote strain that has been mentioned a few times here) and I find my results closer to his with lots of weird mutants in the mix. Both are consistent in the uber thick stipes and smaller really dark caps that KSSS is known for, yet the ones from will seems less stable.
Now many are going to just take that as proof of the cubes are cubes but i see it more as an expression of two different directions that are producing fairly consistent results. Forget the name KSSS and focus on the fact that crons look like they came from cron and wills look like they came from will. That has real significance.
Perhaps the real issue is not that names mean nothing and more that they don't tell us enough. An imperfect system but the best we have.
De nada, pasty. I wanted to add, about mutations, that it seems like a lot of cube "strains" (this is what I call them usually) result from small random mutations (there are common ones such as leucism and growth habit changes) being picked up by cultivators and propagated. Same as with any other domesticated plant or animal... When I grew "KSSS" I got hobbits - small, slow, and potent as fuck. 
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 2,667
Loc: In a forest
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21788601 - 06/10/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said:
its only by having a name that we can make conclusions of where the varietys frequencies are heading in the future!! as we know where it came from and can see where it is heading! by having a name it creates is history or lineage 
This is what I've been thinking. The only thing there is to identify a variety is the given name. Without a name, and several generations, there is nothing to even suggest that a variety is different from any other.
This also means that if several vendors sell the same variety, they will all be quite different from their counterparts. The longer multiple vendors sell a variety with the same name, the more variance there will be between 2 varieties by the same name, especially if they were bred with different characteristics in mind.
So really, if it isn't PE, I see know point in even knowing the variety you are growing UNLESS you intend to breed your own; then it would be nice to know where you started.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: GreenRabbit]
#21788687 - 06/10/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
GreenRabbit said:
Quote:
mustangbob3 said:
its only by having a name that we can make conclusions of where the varietys frequencies are heading in the future!! as we know where it came from and can see where it is heading! by having a name it creates is history or lineage 
This is what I've been thinking. The only thing there is to identify a variety is the given name. Without a name, and several generations, there is nothing to even suggest that a variety is different from any other.
This also means that if several vendors sell the same variety, they will all be quite different from their counterparts.
You guys crack me up 
I've lost any hope.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan]
#21788762 - 06/10/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I never had hope. I have had different trips with different cubes. Golden teachers have always given me great visuals, lots of laughs, and an all around inspiring trip. Mexicana cubes have always given me a nice floaty, mellow ride with no visuals. Argentinas always gave me minimal visuals but one hell of an amazing feeling. PESA always made me so goddamn tired and allowed me to see vibrant colors on white ceilings. Say what you will, but these trips were consistent so long as i ate 2.5 grams. Anything under was just the same mellow feeling and anything over was the same chaos. 2.5 was the magic number with cubes (excluding pe) That's all. Hiding thread now.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur]
#21789162 - 06/10/15 04:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don't lose hope leopard, no reason for that. I think the the biggest problem with what is being proposed is that people assign it too much significance. Those that stand by the cube is a cube theory don't give it any. I don't think is as black or white as all that.
To lets compare this back to people once more. All humans share over 99% the same DNA. We can all produce viable offspring regardless of what races mate. We are all the same species. On a very macro level we all look the same within a range of given phenotypes. But for example, I think that there is a difference between african Americans and Caucasians. On the surface the most obvious would be pigmentation. Yet Michael Jackson was a pretty pale dude. African Americans are often thought of as being tall. But Gary Colman wasn't. So that's where the individual differences that will always be present come into play.
CRS most of the time drops brown spores. But every now and then one comes along that doesn't. Penis envy looks like a dick. But sometimes it doesn't.
If this understanding is fundamentally flawed i really would like to have link or proof or at least a good convincing argument as to why. I like to think I am open minded enough to be able to change my mind if given good reason to.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21789248 - 06/10/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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And families amplify genetic disorders or genetic advantage. All a variety is is amplification of certain frequencies in the genetics.
Pe is amplification of some components.
CRS is an amplification of something else. It doesn't remove black spores from its book of secrets obviously.
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Sksoul
Pan handler



Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 397
Loc: Far East
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21789312 - 06/10/15 05:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think I'm starting to buy what you guys are selling. I guess I never gave it much thought and figured most cubes are similar enough to not worry about it.
Now I'm interested to get involved with the print lottos and trading. Thanks to everyone for the input and opinions!
-------------------- Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21789341 - 06/10/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Don't lose hope leopard, no reason for that. I think the the biggest problem with what is being proposed is that people assign it too much significance. Those that stand by the cube is a cube theory don't give it any. I don't think is as black or white as all that.
To lets compare this back to people once more. All humans share over 99% the same DNA. We can all produce viable offspring regardless of what races mate. We are all the same species. On a very macro level we all look the same within a range of given phenotypes. But for example, I think that there is a difference between african Americans and Caucasians. On the surface the most obvious would be pigmentation. Yet Michael Jackson was a pretty pale dude. African Americans are often thought of as being tall. But Gary Colman wasn't. So that's where the individual differences that will always be present come into play.
CRS most of the time drops brown spores. But every now and then one comes along that doesn't. Penis envy looks like a dick. But sometimes it doesn't.
If this understanding is fundamentally flawed i really would like to have link or proof or at least a good convincing argument as to why. I like to think I am open minded enough to be able to change my mind if given good reason to.
Obviously I wasn't referring to you when I said that I've lost hope 
I think we can more or less agree on this. I have some problems though when people starts to say that GT or TC or EQ consistently show distinct phenotypes or certain "lineages", because it's where things starts to get out of control. Critical thinking is completely lost there.
There are many reasons for that, and I've already listed some of those I think. But there is another reason, maybe less apparent but still undeniable IMO: human nature.
I'll try to explain. People cheat all the time, especially when money or self interest are involved. You can see that pretty much everywhere, from economics to politics, to relationships. We are like this. Not everyone of us, although we all have a tendency ( ) inside ourselves to do our own interest.
Now, I am not saying that all vendors and all those amateur cultivators trading prints on the marketplace are dishonest. But do you really think that everyone is being 100% honest when they say they have certain cube prints (GT or TC or EQ)?
Let's say Bob wants to grow some pans and Mary has a few Pan Cambo prints left. Bob has only a few GT prints, but Mary says that she wants some Thai Lipa prints instead. Now Bob has to choose. Either he puts a new label on his prints or he doesn't get what he wants.
Again, most people would probably back off and tell Mary that they haven't any Thai Lipa prints, but even if 10 people in a year decide to cheat, that would pretty much nullify all this talking about "varieties". There would be a landslide effect because when Mary will eventually trade those prints she received from Bob, she will call them Thai Lipa even if they are GT.
There's no way to verify the so called variety of a print. It's all based on trust. And the same is true for vendors.
Correct me if I am wrong.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan]
#21789364 - 06/10/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Very true point leopard. I've thought about that myself. Interestingly, I've made trades on here, but I've never used any prints I've gotten. All my grows originated from fsre back in '02 and I've done a good job at labeling them.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: azur]
#21789457 - 06/10/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Very true point leopard. I've thought about that myself. Interestingly, I've made trades on here, but I've never used any prints I've gotten. All my grows originated from fsre back in '02 and I've done a good job at labeling them.
Well, it doesn't matter if you got your prints from fsre (those who donated prints to fsre got them from someone else, right?). The point is: there is no way to verify that you are getting what they say they are giving you.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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