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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Loc: Canada
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If a cube is a cube then what about PE?
#21774758 - 06/07/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There has been a lot of debate over the whole cube is a cube issue. Its not being satisfied in the strain thread. If any mod decides to lock this I understand but a platform for intelligent discussion that is not centered around any individual variety seems to be needed. I don't see this as a discussion about whats better, I see this as a discussion of the role selective/random mutation does or does not play, both in the wild and in domestic settings.
I think this thread could be interesting. Lets play nice and hopefully it won't be locked.
Edited by Pastywhyte (06/07/15 04:01 PM)
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Grey
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Registered: 11/06/14
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774777 - 06/07/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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LeopardMan
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Registered: 09/21/09
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774790 - 06/07/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks PW. I like to reformulate your title though
If cube varieties are different from one another, how come nobody can tell which is which?
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PinPornProducer
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Grey]
#21774796 - 06/07/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grey said:

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SizlChest
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774818 - 06/07/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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PE threatens the status quo of "a cube is a cube"
just because this specific variety has very visual differences. doesn't mean that it's variation is the same amount as the variation between other cubensis varieties they're just not as visually represented.
just the same PE can have normal looking fruits.
we have called it an exception because the fact that it is visually different isn't inline with the sentiment that a cube is a cube even though PE is just another variety. Only that human being see a large difference. The mushrooms themselves which have no eyes don't see any difference.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,808
Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan]
#21774825 - 06/07/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LeopardMan said: Thanks PW. I like to reformulate your title though
If cube varieties are different from one another, how come nobody can tell which is which?
Ah but that is the crux. Some you can tell or at least narrow down. I can easily distinguish a PE from APE or AA+ from B+. I can distingiush a CRS from a KSSS. Most asians can tell the difference between a Japanese person vs a Korean but I can't. Does that mean they're wrong? Does it make me right?
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774829 - 06/07/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its like dogs. I can breed a pitbull with a poodle but I would never confuse the two. Both are the same species. Both are quite different.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774851 - 06/07/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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FreeWorldOrder


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lol... it's easy to tell a PE from other cubes.
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Mad Season
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Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774904 - 06/07/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Since there's different cubes like AA+, APE, PE and so on. They can consistently have a larger number of genetics with the same variety. Assuming that cosmetics can follow through to another generation, wouldn't other variances be more predominant in the next generation?
On this principle, extremely popular strains that have seen lots of cloning for high yield and potency, wouldn't the spores from such genetics have a higher chance to produce roughly the same results? I've noticed MS grows throwing some amazing stuff lately.
In a nut shell do you think cultivated cube prints have a higher chance to have more prolific flushes with higher potency over a wild print? Any thoughts? Or better yet any people who have tried it? If not I'd be down to take a wild print for such an experiment
Edited by Mad Season (06/07/15 04:23 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Mad Season]
#21774923 - 06/07/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anyone who has grown wilds often reports a very high level of variability. When the purple mystics started making the rounds there were all kinds of crazy things showing up. If I wasn't gonna retire from cubes soon, they would be very high on my list. I might still give em another go anyway as wilds are truly a joy to play with.
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Mr.PhilCybin
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Registered: 06/13/11
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
#21774926 - 06/07/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't have much to add, but I've wondered this too.
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LeopardMan
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21774938 - 06/07/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
LeopardMan said: Thanks PW. I like to reformulate your title though
If cube varieties are different from one another, how come nobody can tell which is which?
Ah but that is the crux. Some you can tell or at least narrow down. I can easily distinguish a PE from APE or AA+ from B+.
Albinos are mutants and are clearly visibile. I've already told you what I think about albinos, please let me know why you disagree on this.
Quote:
albinos are different. They show some consistency. Most of the times the produce white fruits, true. But does that imply that they are a different variety? Not at all. Albinos are just cubes with a leucistic trait and if you keep print>grow>print this trait will disappear 90% of the times because of random mutation. That's how the albino trait showed up in the first place. That's how evolution works btw.
Quote:
I can distingiush a CRS from a KSSS. Most asians can tell the difference between a Japanese person vs a Korean but I can't. Does that mean they're wrong? Does it make me right?
Ok, finally we have some names. CS and KSSS. So you can always tell the difference between these two "varieties" and all other cubes? If so, let's open a new thread and start a test. We must do it.
Quote:
bodhisatta said: PE threatens the status quo of "a cube is a cube"
Actually looks like I am the only one who still thinks that a cube is a cube 
PE doesn't threaten anything. It's just a mystery, everybody agrees on this. You are saying, though, that varieties do exist, even when there are 5 different varieties originating from the small island of Koh Samui:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9608425#9608425
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PinPornProducer
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Mad Season]
#21774939 - 06/07/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can see saying a cube is a cube once it's been domesticated, but I think a wild cube found in Thailand would thrive much better in Thailand than in Texas. I've also noticed stem color differences from one cube variety to another right from pinning stages and cap colors and shapes also once matured. Here is pe6, Cambodian and ksss
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Mr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
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PE isn't a mystery?
wasn't it isolated over the years by steven pollock?
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LeopardMan
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Registered: 09/21/09
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Loc: A tree house
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: I can see saying a cube is a cube once it's been domesticated, but I think a wild cube found in Thailand would thrive much better in Thailand than in Texas. I've also noticed stem color differences from one cube variety to another right from pinning stages and cap colors and shapes also once matured. Here is pe6, Cambodian and ksss

Small differences in environmental conditions (RH, FAE, water, temp,etc), can give you totally different fruits (meaty, hollow, tall, short, and so on).
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,808
Loc: Canada
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: PinPornProducer] 1
#21775001 - 06/07/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have yet to grow a CRS that didn't drop brown spores. Easy to distinguish. Now when you cross the spores of CRS and AA+ you get normal looking fruits with black spores for the first generation. The second generation will display a wide range of fruits some exhibiting one reccessive or another. Some have neither and very rarely you can find one with both. If you take spores from that dual trait fruit it will eventually stabilize. Workman did it with APE.
Now this is very selective but the path of mutation is clear. There is no reason to believe that it cannot happen over time in regionally isolated populations. Granted it would take millions of years for even slight changes to manifest and its highly possible that any real mutations might not even be apparent to the average person. But to assume it won't is contrary to everything we know about natural selection.
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Mad Season
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Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: LeopardMan]
#21775012 - 06/07/15 04:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Are you sure it's just differences in environment or do genetics you have play a role too? I've seen tubs have different types of fruits all throughout the tub. Some short and tall some hollow and some with that white membrane in the middle. In the same conditions.
I've recently switched to trays. 4 in a tub. Although hydration may be different, conditions are the same, and the variances are even greater. I'm not saying that conditions don't effect the fruit body, just that genetics play a roll too and they had to have come from the parent fruit body.
I'm not sure how much a parent fruit body has to play on the genetics of its next spores generation. I don't think anyone really knows. I'm just making a hypothesis since some parents can keep throwing the same cosmetic genetic as well as yield/potency. I rarely see a weak ms fruit these days.
Edited by Mad Season (06/07/15 04:46 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: If a cube is a cube then what about PE? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21775027 - 06/07/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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exactly, PE is just an apparent difference, it's not an exception just because the difference is super apparent.
variety 1 might almost always have type O blood variety 2 might almost always have AB blood
can't tell the difference if that's their only average difference
variety 3 might have nearly 0 potential for PE look trait variety 4 might have 99% potential for PE look trait
easy to tell the difference.
not an exception,
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