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OfflineDeadPhan
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Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain?
    #21773909 - 06/07/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ive seen it done before. Where you just add x amount of water to a jar with dry grain and throw right in the pressure cooker. If so whats you thoughts on it  experiences?  I certainly love the tried and true method of soaking before cooking but there are times i could realy use saving a day having to soak and just get right to it. Anyone?


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21773934 - 06/07/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hmm..
Im interested in knowing aswell.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #21774079 - 06/07/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's worked for others in the past but I still wouldn't think it would be the best route to go IMO:shrug:

I'll be pretty much skipping the soak on my rye today and goin straight to the boil tho cuz my dumbass spaced the soak last night:facepalm: I'd personally just rather do that but If you decide to go straight to PC I'd definitely be interested to see how it turns out.


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Offlinelivelogikal
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: mushmagic]
    #21774529 - 06/07/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Soaking has two benefits that you would miss out on if you used that technique. First and most importantly it allows endo spores to germinate and make them more susceptible to being sterilized when you cook. Secondly an even amount of water saturation per seed.

Additionally I would imagine seeds that were sitting in the water would burst open leaving the grains startchy and unusable.


Edited by livelogikal (06/07/15 03:04 PM)


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21774561 - 06/07/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DeadPhan said:
Ive seen it done before. Where you just add x amount of water to a jar with dry grain and throw right in the pressure cooker. If so whats you thoughts on it  experiences?  I certainly love the tried and true method of soaking before cooking but there are times i could realy use saving a day having to soak and just get right to it. Anyone?





This is tried and true.

I pretty much only use this method unless my grain is exceptionally dirty.

It works fucking fabulous and saves so much time and energy. :bender:

If your worried about endospores just add the correct amount of water to your jars/grain and let them sit over night before PC'ing them. But its not really needed...


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: livelogikal]
    #21774565 - 06/07/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I've done this to RGS with good results following RR's Rye Grass Seed tek.  It seems like you always get some clumping grains but it ended up not being a problem. The myc colonized right through.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #21774583 - 06/07/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Shaking your PC'd jars before they have a chance to fully cool will help with the clumping.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21774586 - 06/07/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I believe violets rgs tek is a no soak tek and it works awesome. What kind of grains do you use?


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Zombi3] * 1
    #21774667 - 06/07/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I almost never soak my grain. I also never ever rinse it, and its some filthy stuff. But it all colonizes the same. If you look at any spawn I ever post a pick of you can see bits of colonized straw dust etc.



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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21774699 - 06/07/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I almost never soak my grain. I also never ever rinse it, and its some filthy stuff.



:aweohyou:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: poofterFroth] * 1
    #21774746 - 06/07/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I havent done a soak with rye in a long time. I'd be willing to put money on ending up with more endospores than you started with, regardless you sterilize it anyway so


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21774993 - 06/07/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Doing a no-soak right now for 1st time.
I am going to boil whole oats until they are ready.

Have to watch they don't burst though.
I am guessing 30-45 minutes light boil.
Since they have the husk/hull should be a breeze to get 'em right without blowing them up.

Then dump into tub, dry on outside, then put into my quart jars & PC for 90min @15psi.

Doing 7 quarts to inoculate with some agar wedges from some plates that are ready (actually, over ready...lol) ...:thumbup:


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Edited by FreeWorldOrder (06/07/15 05:21 PM)


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21775452 - 06/07/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Got 'em done and they turned out great.

For anyone interested....40 min. slow boil grains plump & translucent.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21775524 - 06/07/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Pasty do you just boil and let sit or pour boiling water to your grains? Or......do you add x water to x grains and PC away?

While I have in the past done this with rgs I've never tried it with wbs and definitely never tried it with spawn bags instead of jars. I wonder if it would make much difference.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21775535 - 06/07/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Can anyone suggest a water to grain ratio? I'm assuming we're talking about just throwing dry grain into the jars with water and PC'ing, which would be amazingly easy compared to normal soak/boil techniques floating around.


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Offlinefearnoevil
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: lutherarkwright93]
    #21775565 - 06/07/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Have done quite of bit of no-soak on WBS, no boiling either of course, just 600 mls WBS and 400 mls water, in the jar and then into the PC for 90 minutes.  It works, but it does have a lot of clumping issues and I'll admit I have a larger percentage of failed jars than if I rinse/soak first, then PC.

These days I rinse several times (WBS anyway cuz that's some filthy shite for sure), soak for 20-24 hrs, drain for 2-4 hrs, then lay out on sheets and "towel" dry until there's no visible moisture, then PC.  A bit more time but works best for me ;?D


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: fearnoevil]
    #21775584 - 06/07/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't do the water plus dry grain into the pc if it was me. I'd simmer/boil until hydrated for like 30 mins to an hour. Strain and steam dry and throw into jars. Some do drip dry for awhile and directly into jars with success too. Steam drying for me tho is the best.


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Offlinechasingwaterfalls
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21775618 - 06/07/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Idk if anyone messes with popcorn, also I've only prepped 3 rounds of jars (none contammed, but I've also only got one tub fruiting, the other two are still covered colonizing coir), I've been using popcorn without soaking.

What's worked for me is getting most of the kernels split - at this point, I would still slice open a kernel to see it barely cooked fully. PCing 90 min after reaching 15 psi, then I let cool in PC for 6 or so hours.

I recall reading popcorn's shape (more volume to surface  area) can help endospores survive the prep but IME it's been good to me. My 2 cents


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21775632 - 06/07/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It sounds so fucking easy is all. It would help mitigate the days-consuming aspect of this hobby.

I'm talking no soak no boil just throw it in the PC in the jar with water and blast off.


Edited by lutherarkwright93 (06/07/15 07:33 PM)


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: chasingwaterfalls]
    #21775638 - 06/07/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Since endospores form basically due to starvation or other extreme conditions it is highly unlikely that they would be formed while wbs is soaking and bacteria is actively multiplying.


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In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21775665 - 06/07/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

endospores are formed routinely.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21775689 - 06/07/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

News to me. Everything I've ever read says it really only happens when there is a lack of nutrients or other extreme conditions that would otherwise kill the vegetative form of the organism.


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In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

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Offlinefearnoevil
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21775695 - 06/07/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Endospores ARE bacteria, just a dormant form with a protective wrapping, if you will, that allows it to survive for long periods of time and in varying temperatures, including high heat, although sufficient heat and/or time will eventually destroy them.

The idea of a soak is to get them to "hatch" where they then are essentially just regular bacteria and can be killed much more easily ;?D


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21775698 - 06/07/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

it's not all or nothing like that. when there's a lack of nutrients or some other unfavorable condition the percentage of endospores formed by the population will be very high. during vegetative growth on a suitable medium endospore creation will be very low but still will be there.

some species are circadian in their endospore production. some are more reliant on stress factors.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: fearnoevil]
    #21775700 - 06/07/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Who said endospores weren't bacteria? Lol


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21775709 - 06/07/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup: and bod clears up what I was wondering in a different thread lol.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21775716 - 06/07/15 07:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

everyone already knows all of that

Quote:


The idea of a soak is to get them to "hatch" where they then are essentially just regular bacteria and can be killed much more easily



this is under scrutiny since there's only RR quotes and parroting to back it up. does the soak actually germinate more than it creates, does the soak actually germinate a significant amount relative to no soak methods, etc.. those quantitative measurements are unknown.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21775845 - 06/07/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

The method of simply putting grains and water in a jar to pressure cook is how we did it for decades.  We also had to deal with clumpy grains, a higher fail ratio, and slower colonization due to all the grain dust and dirt. 
RR




Pasty, I assume that you arent experiencing these kinds of problems or you would have switched over to the soak method. Could you provide a rebuttal, and perhaps also explain how you prepare your grains?


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21775881 - 06/07/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DeadPhan said:
Ive seen it done before. Where you just add x amount of water to a jar with dry grain and throw right in the pressure cooker. If so whats you thoughts on it  experiences?  I certainly love the tried and true method of soaking before cooking but there are times i could realy use saving a day having to soak and just get right to it. Anyone?





I do a modified version of Fooman's no soak.. Although it is nothing like what you are trying to describe.

I have been trying 2 different ways lately.  I like both and both work so here they go.


I rinse my grain in a giant pot, once it is clean enough I just fill the pot with water and make sure there is no WBS on the side of the pot.

I add gypsum/lime and bring to a boil for 30 seconds then shut off the heat and let soak for 1-2 hours.

Alternative method I use is.. 

I boil water with out the grains in it, then add the grains after it comes to a boil and let soak for 1-2 hours. 

My seed looks great every time and I believe it has to be the quickest way to hydrate your grains properly in the least amount of time.


Some shots of my WBS.  Notice none of them are broken open.




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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21775890 - 06/07/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Why do you think they exist as endospores? They are "dormant" because conditions are not ideal for them to live, and with these particular types of bacterium, at least the ones we are worried about when it comes to mycology, it is often either a lack of moisture and/or temps.  So soaking them fools the endospores into "thinking" (yes I realize that is a bit of anthropomorphizing, lol) that conditions are now within the range for its survival, and so they "hatch" for lack of a better word.  Whether or not you choose to believe that this is the mechanism involved, well you can believe what you want, but as long as I've been pursuing this hobby, THAT is the common wisdom, and until I read something that definitively disproves that, then I will continue to follow it.  Clear enough?

And while we're on the topic, where do you get the idea that soaking actually creates MORE endospores???  More bacteria, sure because the environment is closer to (don't want to assume that it's perfect) the conditions which allow the bacteria in question reproduce and flourish.  But lets say a particular bacteria preferred dry and cool conditions, then I suppose being submerged in water might indeed stimulate them into forming endospores, but then that wouldn't matter because obviously those particular pathogens would not be anything we, as mycologists, would worry about, would it?


Edited by fearnoevil (06/07/15 08:31 PM)


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21775905 - 06/07/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have done no soak grains with great success. 1 cup wheat with 3/4 cup of water and pc as the norm and it would come out perfect everytime.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: insanemike]
    #21775930 - 06/07/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Wheat I can see since it is relatively soft "shelled". Milo on the other hand not so much.

I bring my grains just to a boil as well then remove from heat for an hour or so but I rinse mine afterwards and allow to drip dry for 8ish hours. I only rinse after because the boil seems to make everything super starchy especially if you have any cracked corn in your mix.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21775935 - 06/07/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
Wheat I can see since it is relatively soft "shelled". Milo on the other hand not so much.

I bring my grains just to a boil as well then remove from heat for an hour or so but I rinse mine afterwards and allow to drip dry for 8ish hours. I only rinse after because the boil seems to make everything super starchy especially if you have any cracked corn in your mix.





I rinse mine with cold water and aggressively bang out all the water and load into jars with in seconds of straining all the water out.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21775953 - 06/07/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well I drain using heavy duty mesh laundry bags since I prep more than a collander full. I have been informed for my edibles I should just build a 2x4 frame and line it with mesh screen.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21775958 - 06/07/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I've found that milo is very easy to mess up. I would propably prep it as I do with whole brown rice. Let it hydrate only half way, strain only until water stops dripping and let the residual water on the hull finish hydrating it during the pc run.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: insanemike]
    #21775974 - 06/07/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #21776080 - 06/07/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

The method of simply putting grains and water in a jar to pressure cook is how we did it for decades.  We also had to deal with clumpy grains, a higher fail ratio, and slower colonization due to all the grain dust and dirt. 
RR




Pasty, I assume that you arent experiencing these kinds of problems or you would have switched over to the soak method. Could you provide a rebuttal, and perhaps also explain how you prepare your grains?




Well the method I use depends on the grain i use. Millet or WBS is prepped with Foomans tek and for those small size grains its the shit. Nothing else comes close. For rye or wheat I like to simmer carefully for about an hour with constant checking to ensure no bursting. Oats I just get em in the water and boil em good. They are near impossible to fuck up.

Also I find that grain dust is nothing to worry about. Clumping happens from spilled starch and exploded grains. The dust and dirt might create the slightest of clumping effects but its easy to bump my hand against it once and it all comes apart with ease.

There is something else that liquid users might find interesting. When inoculating with LI or LC I have found without fail that the earliest recovery occurs in/on the dust left behind. Seems to trap the myc and encourage faster recovery. Given RR's well documented hate for liquids I am not surprised he never mentioned it. But its been my experience so far.

If anyone doubts me I encourage them to do a single quarts worth without a rinse or a soak and see how it stacks up. Bet you never rinse grain again. If I'm wrong your only out a single quart of grain. Small taters.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21776116 - 06/07/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

The method of simply putting grains and water in a jar to pressure cook is how we did it for decades.  We also had to deal with clumpy grains, a higher fail ratio, and slower colonization due to all the grain dust and dirt. 
RR




Pasty, I assume that you arent experiencing these kinds of problems or you would have switched over to the soak method. Could you provide a rebuttal, and perhaps also explain how you prepare your grains?




Well the method I use depends on the grain i use. Millet or WBS is prepped with Foomans tek and for those small size grains its the shit. Nothing else comes close. For rye or wheat I like to simmer carefully for about an hour with constant checking to ensure no bursting. Oats I just get em in the water and boil em good. They are near impossible to fuck up.

Also I find that grain dust is nothing to worry about. Clumping happens from spilled starch and exploded grains. The dust and dirt might create the slightest of clumping effects but its easy to bump my hand against it once and it all comes apart with ease.

There is something else that liquid users might find interesting. When inoculating with LI or LC I have found without fail that the earliest recovery occurs in/on the dust left behind. Seems to trap the myc and encourage faster recovery. Given RR's well documented hate for liquids I am not surprised he never mentioned it. But its been my experience so far.

If anyone doubts me I encourage them to do a single quarts worth without a rinse or a soak and see how it stacks up. Bet you never rinse grain again. If I'm wrong your only out a single quart of grain. Small taters.





I am just going to take this and run with it,  Rinsing the grain is the worst part for me. 

Although my mix i use has a high amount of black sunflower seeds that I use the soak to sort out. 

There is quite a bit of them.. Should i even worry about them?


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21776132 - 06/07/15 09:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't really use WBS much so I can't really say. For me the sunflower seeds are too oily so I might try and get them out. But screw dumping loads of water over and over. I used to do it too and one day I had enough and said fuck it, I gonna see what happens. I never looked back.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21776189 - 06/07/15 09:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Sunflower seeds should be fine. I have successfully grown spawn on quarts of safflower seeds and chickpeas. So I don't think there are too many types of seeds or grain that won't work. It usually comes down to ease of prep and costs being the biggest determining factors when it comes to propagating spawn.


Edited by insanemike (06/07/15 09:27 PM)


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: insanemike]
    #21776213 - 06/07/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fair enough. Like I said I don't use WBS much so you will hear no argument from me.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: insanemike]
    #21776276 - 06/07/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
Sunflower seeds should be fine. I have successfully grown spawn on quarts of safflower seeds and chickpeas. So I don't think there are too many types of seeds or grain that won't work. It usually comes down to ease of prep and costs being the biggest determining factors when it comes to propagating spawn.





Yes but.. How were your yields and whats the nutrient ratio in them and millet?

I would figure you would want a super high amount of millet to seeds.  I keep a few around for the oil content. 

I am interested in this seed only grow, I am saving my seeds next time and finding out these answers for us.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21776335 - 06/07/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Lol, so you want to play Bodhisatta, very good, game on.  It is quite funny that you should choose Bacillus Subtilus, as it's something I'm quite familiar with.  In fact as I speak I'm looking at a quart of the stuff sitting in front of me, oh and I also take it daily in a capsule form as a part of a superior form of probiotic supplement(superior specifically because the surrounding proteinaceous coating inbues the spore with an ability to withstand the strong acids of the primary digestive system enabling it to reach the lower intestines where it has the most beneficial affects on ones lower intestinal flora, but that's a discussion for another day ;?).

That said, I will have to defer my response until tomorrow as it is quite late and if I don't get to bed the nurses will become angry, lol.  But yeah, see you soon ;?D


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21776336 - 06/07/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

insanemike said:
Sunflower seeds should be fine. I have successfully grown spawn on quarts of safflower seeds and chickpeas. So I don't think there are too many types of seeds or grain that won't work. It usually comes down to ease of prep and costs being the biggest determining factors when it comes to propagating spawn.





Yes but.. How were your yields and whats the nutrient ratio in them and millet?

I would figure you would want a super high amount of millet to seeds.  I keep a few around for the oil content. 

I am interested in this seed only grow, I am saving my seeds next time and finding out these answers for us.




It was a year and a half ago and really had no idea what I was doing at that time but from what I can remember is that the tub triched out. I bucket tek'd cvg with coffee (big mistake). I haven't attempted it since.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: insanemike]
    #21776489 - 06/07/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

insanemike said:
Sunflower seeds should be fine. I have successfully grown spawn on quarts of safflower seeds and chickpeas. So I don't think there are too many types of seeds or grain that won't work. It usually comes down to ease of prep and costs being the biggest determining factors when it comes to propagating spawn.





Yes but.. How were your yields and whats the nutrient ratio in them and millet?

I would figure you would want a super high amount of millet to seeds.  I keep a few around for the oil content. 

I am interested in this seed only grow, I am saving my seeds next time and finding out these answers for us.




It was a year and a half ago and really had no idea what I was doing at that time but from what I can remember is that the tub triched out. I bucket tek'd cvg with coffee (big mistake). I haven't attempted it since.





I will follow up on this then.  I have a grow that I can put it up against straight up grain too.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21776512 - 06/07/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fearnoevil said:
Lol, so you want to play Bodhisatta, very good, game on.

That said, I will have to defer my response until tomorrow as it is quite late and if I don't get to bed the nurses will become angry, lol.  But yeah, see you soon ;?D



Calling Dr. Douche lol :helloyesthisisdouche:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21776515 - 06/07/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21777415 - 06/08/15 05:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wowimflabbergasted said:
Quote:

fearnoevil said:
Lol, so you want to play Bodhisatta, very good, game on.

That said, I will have to defer my response until tomorrow as it is quite late and if I don't get to bed the nurses will become angry, lol.  But yeah, see you soon ;?D



Calling Dr. Douche lol :helloyesthisisdouche:



:lol:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #21777833 - 06/08/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So im using rye. I tried WBS once and i just didnt like it. Between filtering out the sunflower husks and stuff...  im just used to rye and it works for me. Albeit more expensive but whatever. See. If i was to have to boil and steam dry anyway id just as well soak. What i want to know is anyone that just throws dry grain straight into jar with x amount of water and commences the PC cycle. If im gonna fuss around with boiling and drying i just as well will soak for 12 hours or so.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21777889 - 06/08/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

"OATS FTW"
:headbang3:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #21777895 - 06/08/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I need to know more about oats. Nervous about it but i want to try. I sound like a teenage girl wanting to have sex for the first time


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21777903 - 06/08/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Boil for 30 minutes, strain and load. I let them dry for a bit, but you can just load them wet if you want. They absorb the extra moisture during the PC cycle.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21777984 - 06/08/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Care to link to the type of oats you use? I see a whole variety when I'm in the feed store.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21777985 - 06/08/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Here's the ratios I use for rye & wheat grain. You obviously may need to adjust it some depending on the starting moisture content of your grains. Gypsum is optional as always.

After PC'ing shake them before they cool down completely to help avoid clumping. I usually just wait till I can pick them up without burning my hands.

RYE GRAIN/QUART JARS
300mL Rye
175mL H2o

WHEAT GRAIN/QUART JARS
300mL
150mL H2o

:vibin::vibin::vibin::vibin::vibin:

Make a few jars to these specs and make some deviating from it - some with more water, some with less water. Label the amounts in each jar and PC them all together. Afterwards pick out the best looking jar and roll with that.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21778016 - 06/08/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
Care to link to the type of oats you use? I see a whole variety when I'm in the feed store.



Just make sure they are whole oats. A lot of people use these and I use these...



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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21778065 - 06/08/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Lmmfao. The first review on that link is Mudafuka saying use em for mycelium growth!


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21778076 - 06/08/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Im going to give oats a go. Its about the same price I get wbs for and from what I can tell will have less of a bacterial endospores load.

Now to just find a good prep tek


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21778091 - 06/08/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Seriously boil for 30-40 minutes. No rinse or soak, they are pretty clean.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21778092 - 06/08/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thats mudafukin fantastic!


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: bsfurr]
    #21778200 - 06/08/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So a question about oats. Whenever I boil wbs it gets very starchy if I don't rinse it again, do oats not have this issue or just if you over boil them?


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21778227 - 06/08/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21778271 - 06/08/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DeadPhan said:
I need to know more about oats. Nervous about it but i want to try. I sound like a teenage girl wanting to have sex for the first time




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20896503 :thumbup:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21778276 - 06/08/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21778447 - 06/08/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

cool information


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: lutherarkwright93]
    #21778560 - 06/08/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lutherarkwright93 said:
Can anyone suggest a water to grain ratio? I'm assuming we're talking about just throwing dry grain into the jars with water and PC'ing, which would be amazingly easy compared to normal soak/boil techniques floating around.




Quart jars:

1 cup rye grain to 2/3-¾ cup water + gypsum

½ GALLON JARS:

3 cups rye grain to 1 ¾ cups water + gypsum

sterilize as per usual, no soak or rinse.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #21778614 - 06/08/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Aloha medicinals are not supposed to use a soak method, and said it loses water soluble nutrients. They allegedly PC at 5psi for 30mins which hydrates the grains. They then let it sit for 12hours and then add gypsum and sterilize at 15psi for 90mins.

I am not sure if this is for even hyrdation or endospore purposes. John Tyndall also warned against a 24hour wait time, specifically saying it was too long, yet lots of microbiology books will give instructions for tyndallization and say wait 24hours -no wonder it has a bad name :mad2:

I have done the no soak method many times and sometimes did get exploded grain, but not if I brought the heat up slowly, i.e. lower pressure for the first while.

There are videos of commercial sclerotia growers wheeling in bags of rye grass seed which was not cooked, it was not even wetted, you could see visibly dry grain at the top of the bags. RGS does not really explode though.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: blackout]
    #21778624 - 06/08/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah rgs is easy to dump in and PC, dunno how well other grains fare though.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #21779089 - 06/08/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

lutherarkwright93 said:
Can anyone suggest a water to grain ratio? I'm assuming we're talking about just throwing dry grain into the jars with water and PC'ing, which would be amazingly easy compared to normal soak/boil techniques floating around.




Quart jars:

1 cup rye grain to 2/3-¾ cup water + gypsum

½ GALLON JARS:

3 cups rye grain to 1 ¾ cups water + gypsum

sterilize as per usual, no soak or rinse.




This is brilliant to me.
I'll need to look up the cost differences between wbs and rye but to me:

Spending an extra $5-10 to be able to:

funnel grain and then water into each jar

instead of:

measuring soaking filtering heating sometimes rinsing, then putting into jars

To some of us every dollar counts, but I feel like with this hobby simplifying by reducing steps will inevitably encourage me to do more grows.

This last time with wbs we were toiling around the stove and the sink for two nights, then with inoculation it becomes a three day task.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: lutherarkwright93]
    #21779499 - 06/08/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I've not tried this method, I remembered seeing it in stamets book the mushroom cultivator, the recipe was taken from there.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: blackout]
    #21779795 - 06/08/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Aloha medicinals are not supposed to use a soak method, and said it loses water soluble nutrients. They allegedly PC at 5psi for 30mins which hydrates the grains. They then let it sit for 12hours and then add gypsum and sterilize at 15psi for 90mins.




You are correct about the hydration time but if I remember what i was told by a member who took their spawn making course last year, the sterilization run is for 4 hours at 60 psi.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21779836 - 06/08/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Can't remember who but someone told me here recently they do a double run. Something like a few hours at 20psi and then 60psi


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: lutherarkwright93]
    #21780013 - 06/08/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have one jar in the PC right now running a trial. 1 cup of rye berries, no soak or prep loaded into 1 liter jar with 2/3 cup of water and a pinch of gypsum. I Will inject with 5 ml of LC tomorrow.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #21780674 - 06/08/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yea this is how I used to prep my grain. Old school.
I thought that was how everyone prepped grain untill someone laughed at me for it :lol:

X amount of grain in jar, X amount of water and then straight into the PC.

If you have the formula right it *will* work, and I did many grows this way, but it really is an inferior method.

The grains clump, sometimes real sticky, sometimes too dry. The colonized grains are difficult to break up.

A traditional rye prep, is so easy and reliable, that I dont see what the fuss is about.

Spitball Jedi's quick rye prep is also a very good prep for days you didnt plan ahead and need to get some grain done today


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: mushpunx]
    #21780842 - 06/08/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:



clostridum butyricum from brewers grain(rye malt) it's very heat resistant because of the spores. it is responsible for the most part in the rancid smell if you let grains soak too long. it will survive the boil and is why your grains go bad and smell like puke and Greek feet feta if you don't sterilize them after your grain prep.

it forms endospores even culture on anaerobic plates with an abidance of nutrients. as you can see some subset of the population finds it appropriate to form endospores despite not having "bad conditions" as conditions get worse spore formation goes up. I would be nearly positive you end up with more endospores if you do a soak than if you skip a soak, either way these DO get killed by a PC in a sufficient cycle.





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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21783117 - 06/09/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
You are correct about the hydration time but if I remember what i was told by a member who took their spawn making course last year, the sterilization run is for 4 hours at 60 psi.



Right, I remember you posting a high psi value before.

The info I saw was posted on mycotopia by someone taking some course there too. Maybe the 60psi is what they use themselves but might teach 15psi to students who will be using their own more standard equipment.

https://mycotopia.net/topic/93548-an-aloha-medicinals-scholarship-month-log/


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: blackout]
    #21783600 - 06/09/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's easiest to throw oats in a stockpot of water. Boil for 30 minutes or so. Drain, load into jars & PC....

Can't see an easier way (for oats anyways). No guessing, no measuring, never fuck up & will turn out the same every time.

It seems having to measure out the grains and water would be extra unnecessary work regardless of grains being used.

I just started doing the no-soak vs. soaking and simmer and this fucking blows the soak method away IMO. I'll never look back now...:rockon:


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Edited by FreeWorldOrder (06/09/15 02:54 PM)


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21783734 - 06/09/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, the old school method I tried looks like it works, as reported by others, however it doesn't net as good of a result. I'm not going to bother using any LC on it, was worth experimenting with to see for myself.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #21784904 - 06/09/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Yeah, the old school method I tried looks like it works, as reported by others, however it doesn't net as good of a result. I'm not going to bother using any LC on it, was worth experimenting with to see for myself.




I disagree. This method is fantastic. Inoculate it - you have nothing to lose. :popcorn:


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #21784906 - 06/09/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It depends on the grain you're using. Some hydrate more readily than others.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
    #21785290 - 06/09/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I start a pot or 2 of water on the stove. While waiting I measure out enough WBS for the number of jars I plan on preparing and throw it in a 5 gal bucket.  Once the water is full on boiling add it to the WBS and put the bucket lid most of the way on and wait 1 hour.  Rinse in a colander and shake for a little til no more water is dripping off.  PC like usual and don't forget to shake before they completely cool.

You can do a large amount at once using a bucket.

No contams issues yet that way.

This is Fooman's Method and works great as others have iterated

Trust in it, it will work.


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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #21785765 - 06/09/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

With that recipe I came out with my liter jar being only about half full of sticky ass rye grains, not enough to warrant wasting any LC on.

Pretty much out of rye berries, its a long drive to get more so I went to my local TSC store and bought a 25 Kg bag of whole oats. I'm looking forward to trying them in a king oyster bucket.


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OfflineDefqon1
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #21786505 - 06/10/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I recently tried this with popcorn, something that most people say is contam prone, Only 1 of my jars showed a bacterial contam ( a few slimy looking kernels) which was later consumed by healthy and hearty mycelium, however I will not be spawning this, at least not inside. But Next time I'll just soak for 48 hours anyways because I like my shit to be 100% But it can work, wouldn't recommend it though.


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