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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic



Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,918
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
#21778227 - 06/08/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc:
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: DeadPhan]
#21778271 - 06/08/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeadPhan said: I need to know more about oats. Nervous about it but i want to try. I sound like a teenage girl wanting to have sex for the first time
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20896503
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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oontribe

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,570
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
#21778447 - 06/08/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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cool information
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
lutherarkwright93 said: Can anyone suggest a water to grain ratio? I'm assuming we're talking about just throwing dry grain into the jars with water and PC'ing, which would be amazingly easy compared to normal soak/boil techniques floating around.
Quart jars:
1 cup rye grain to 2/3-¾ cup water + gypsum
½ GALLON JARS:
3 cups rye grain to 1 ¾ cups water + gypsum
sterilize as per usual, no soak or rinse.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#21778614 - 06/08/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Aloha medicinals are not supposed to use a soak method, and said it loses water soluble nutrients. They allegedly PC at 5psi for 30mins which hydrates the grains. They then let it sit for 12hours and then add gypsum and sterilize at 15psi for 90mins.
I am not sure if this is for even hyrdation or endospore purposes. John Tyndall also warned against a 24hour wait time, specifically saying it was too long, yet lots of microbiology books will give instructions for tyndallization and say wait 24hours -no wonder it has a bad name 
I have done the no soak method many times and sometimes did get exploded grain, but not if I brought the heat up slowly, i.e. lower pressure for the first while.
There are videos of commercial sclerotia growers wheeling in bags of rye grass seed which was not cooked, it was not even wetted, you could see visibly dry grain at the top of the bags. RGS does not really explode though.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: blackout]
#21778624 - 06/08/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah rgs is easy to dump in and PC, dunno how well other grains fare though.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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lutherarkwright93
Neophyte

Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 77
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#21779089 - 06/08/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said:
Quote:
lutherarkwright93 said: Can anyone suggest a water to grain ratio? I'm assuming we're talking about just throwing dry grain into the jars with water and PC'ing, which would be amazingly easy compared to normal soak/boil techniques floating around.
Quart jars:
1 cup rye grain to 2/3-¾ cup water + gypsum
½ GALLON JARS:
3 cups rye grain to 1 ¾ cups water + gypsum
sterilize as per usual, no soak or rinse.
This is brilliant to me. I'll need to look up the cost differences between wbs and rye but to me:
Spending an extra $5-10 to be able to:
funnel grain and then water into each jar
instead of:
measuring soaking filtering heating sometimes rinsing, then putting into jars
To some of us every dollar counts, but I feel like with this hobby simplifying by reducing steps will inevitably encourage me to do more grows.
This last time with wbs we were toiling around the stove and the sink for two nights, then with inoculation it becomes a three day task.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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I've not tried this method, I remembered seeing it in stamets book the mushroom cultivator, the recipe was taken from there.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: blackout]
#21779795 - 06/08/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackout said: Aloha medicinals are not supposed to use a soak method, and said it loses water soluble nutrients. They allegedly PC at 5psi for 30mins which hydrates the grains. They then let it sit for 12hours and then add gypsum and sterilize at 15psi for 90mins.
You are correct about the hydration time but if I remember what i was told by a member who took their spawn making course last year, the sterilization run is for 4 hours at 60 psi.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21779836 - 06/08/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Can't remember who but someone told me here recently they do a double run. Something like a few hours at 20psi and then 60psi
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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I have one jar in the PC right now running a trial. 1 cup of rye berries, no soak or prep loaded into 1 liter jar with 2/3 cup of water and a pinch of gypsum. I Will inject with 5 ml of LC tomorrow.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#21780674 - 06/08/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yea this is how I used to prep my grain. Old school. I thought that was how everyone prepped grain untill someone laughed at me for it
X amount of grain in jar, X amount of water and then straight into the PC.
If you have the formula right it *will* work, and I did many grows this way, but it really is an inferior method.
The grains clump, sometimes real sticky, sometimes too dry. The colonized grains are difficult to break up.
A traditional rye prep, is so easy and reliable, that I dont see what the fuss is about.
Spitball Jedi's quick rye prep is also a very good prep for days you didnt plan ahead and need to get some grain done today
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: mushpunx]
#21780842 - 06/08/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
clostridum butyricum from brewers grain(rye malt) it's very heat resistant because of the spores. it is responsible for the most part in the rancid smell if you let grains soak too long. it will survive the boil and is why your grains go bad and smell like puke and Greek feet feta if you don't sterilize them after your grain prep.
it forms endospores even culture on anaerobic plates with an abidance of nutrients. as you can see some subset of the population finds it appropriate to form endospores despite not having "bad conditions" as conditions get worse spore formation goes up. I would be nearly positive you end up with more endospores if you do a soak than if you skip a soak, either way these DO get killed by a PC in a sufficient cycle.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21783117 - 06/09/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: You are correct about the hydration time but if I remember what i was told by a member who took their spawn making course last year, the sterilization run is for 4 hours at 60 psi.
Right, I remember you posting a high psi value before.
The info I saw was posted on mycotopia by someone taking some course there too. Maybe the 60psi is what they use themselves but might teach 15psi to students who will be using their own more standard equipment.
https://mycotopia.net/topic/93548-an-aloha-medicinals-scholarship-month-log/
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
Last seen: 8 days, 9 hours
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: blackout]
#21783600 - 06/09/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it's easiest to throw oats in a stockpot of water. Boil for 30 minutes or so. Drain, load into jars & PC....
Can't see an easier way (for oats anyways). No guessing, no measuring, never fuck up & will turn out the same every time.
It seems having to measure out the grains and water would be extra unnecessary work regardless of grains being used.
I just started doing the no-soak vs. soaking and simmer and this fucking blows the soak method away IMO. I'll never look back now...
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
Edited by FreeWorldOrder (06/09/15 02:54 PM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
#21783734 - 06/09/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, the old school method I tried looks like it works, as reported by others, however it doesn't net as good of a result. I'm not going to bother using any LC on it, was worth experimenting with to see for myself.
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poofterFroth
Feel Like A Stranger



Registered: 03/15/14
Posts: 1,012
Last seen: 25 days, 2 hours
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#21784904 - 06/09/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: Yeah, the old school method I tried looks like it works, as reported by others, however it doesn't net as good of a result. I'm not going to bother using any LC on it, was worth experimenting with to see for myself.
I disagree. This method is fantastic. Inoculate it - you have nothing to lose.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: poofterFroth]
#21784906 - 06/09/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It depends on the grain you're using. Some hydrate more readily than others.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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DredgeMyEyes
Stranger


Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 273
Last seen: 29 days, 20 hours
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Re: Do any of you do a no soak prep for grain? [Re: maddchef]
#21785290 - 06/09/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I start a pot or 2 of water on the stove. While waiting I measure out enough WBS for the number of jars I plan on preparing and throw it in a 5 gal bucket. Once the water is full on boiling add it to the WBS and put the bucket lid most of the way on and wait 1 hour. Rinse in a colander and shake for a little til no more water is dripping off. PC like usual and don't forget to shake before they completely cool.
You can do a large amount at once using a bucket.
No contams issues yet that way.
This is Fooman's Method and works great as others have iterated
Trust in it, it will work.
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