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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21781383 - 06/09/15 12:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

good ol'  "If you've seen one redwood tree, you've seen them all." Ronnie


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Shins]
    #21784919 - 06/09/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The wealthy are paying them to abuse it, like they have done and wil always do with socialism.  Obviously you have failed to stop them and now you have created a monster.  This inevitably happens every time with socialism,  humans are too corruptable for such a utopian system to work.  It is a deal with the devil,  you open all these doors and csntralize all this power and money and you are stupid enough to believe that humans will not abuse it as much as they can, some will not, most will.  How tragic that such good intentions can have such devastating outcomes when faced with reality, this great danger is why socialists neet to wise up and face reality.  Its better to trade a small present bad with the promise of a large good future than to trade a small good present for a large bad future.  Socialists need to wise up to this and realize that people are capitalist out of pragmatism, and that we are not willing to sacrifice the future for some present pittance.  Socialists are like heroin addicts,  willing to abanon their future prosperity for some fleeting short term fix.




Very true and the left will reject it just as fal has done. Liberalism feeds on the young and stupid, which well describes most students who are at their most vulnerable period in life.

We have to ask ourselves why socialism and watered down communism has been allowed to take hold? Its the eternal human wish for a better society and soc/commie promises of delivering that. It only works in an ideal society in which no one abuses it which of course they do.

The present 2 major parties are simply the left and right hands of the ruling class. Why do you think the public has consistently demanded an end to legal bribery but politicians never deliver? Because they are not about to end the filthy lucre which sustains them. The media since it is in cahoots with the politicians, no longer reports the news, just spews propaganda daily.

Eliminate legal bribery and the system cleans itself up. Stop all campaign contributions, speaking fees, jobs after office, payments to "charitable" organizations controlled by politicians, etc and you clean up the system. The Clintons are the poster people for cleaning up dirty govt, they are as dirty as they come.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21785527 - 06/09/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Liberalism feeds on the young and stupid, which well describes most students who are at their most vulnerable period in life.



So the people that go to the Ivy League colleges are the stupid ones, while those that skip college are the ones we should look up to.  Spoken like a conservative.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
We have to ask ourselves why socialism and watered down communism has been allowed to take hold? Its the eternal human wish for a better society and soc/commie promises of delivering that. It only works in an ideal society in which no one abuses it which of course they do.



It hasn't taken hold.  These are buzz words that the uneducated like to parrot when they hear it on conservative news from other uneducated people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glen Beck.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The present 2 major parties are simply the left and right hands of the ruling class.  Why do you think the public has consistently demanded an end to legal bribery but politicians never deliver? Because they are not about to end the filthy lucre which sustains them.



Now we agree.  I'm not a Democrat, by the way (I've been a member of the Green Party since 2003).

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Eliminate legal bribery and the system cleans itself up. Stop all campaign contributions, speaking fees, jobs after office, payments to "charitable" organizations controlled by politicians, etc and you clean up the system.



We agree again!  :toast:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21787552 - 06/10/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Its nice that we agree on a few things. I see you are back to your old tricks of changing what I said into something different that you think you can argue against.

>So the people that go to the Ivy League colleges are the stupid ones, while those that skip college are the ones we should look up to.

Never said that. Never said "ivy league" didn't say "college" or the rest of it. I said "students" are the ones liberalism takes advantage of because they are young and inexperienced. Many of them may be smart but often haven't a lick of common sense which is one definition of stupid.

>It hasn't taken hold. (socialism and watered down communism)

Then why do we constantly see it promoted on these boards? Why do you often push these ideas? I see enlil promoting the idea that people do not even own the rain that falls on their land, it belongs to the collective according to him.

>These are buzz words that the uneducated like to parrot when they hear it on conservative news from other uneducated people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glen Beck.

Rush Limbaugh attended university, Sean Hannity attended New York University and Adelphi University, Glen Beck attended Yale briefly. You parrot the buzz words of the left, they the words of the right.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21788136 - 06/10/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Its nice that we agree on a few things. I see you are back to your old tricks of changing what I said into something different that you think you can argue against.

>So the people that go to the Ivy League colleges are the stupid ones, while those that skip college are the ones we should look up to.

Never said that. Never said "ivy league" didn't say "college" or the rest of it. I said "students" are the ones liberalism takes advantage of because they are young and inexperienced. Many of them may be smart but often haven't a lick of common sense which is one definition of stupid.

>It hasn't taken hold. (socialism and watered down communism)

Then why do we constantly see it promoted on these boards? Why do you often push these ideas? I see enlil promoting the idea that people do not even own the rain that falls on their land, it belongs to the collective according to him.

>These are buzz words that the uneducated like to parrot when they hear it on conservative news from other uneducated people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glen Beck.

Rush Limbaugh attended university, Sean Hannity attended New York University and Adelphi University, Glen Beck attended Yale briefly. You parrot the buzz words of the left, they the words of the right.





the lawyer is going by the law.  in some places (like oregon) the state insists that it owns all the water that falls from the sky.  Where i live, it is perfectly legal to capture rainwater.  Water rights are not a good example for you right wing cause, because it is in fact capitalism and the extremely valuable nature of water that has gotten us to this point.  We do in fact live in a "socialist country" to some extent. most people think its a good thing. The people who cry about socialism usually didn't think their argument through.  For instance socialized medicine is considered "bad socialism" by some, but they don't bat an eyelash at socialized fire depts. or socialized police.  They rarely cry about collecting their social security checks(oh, right, they earned that).  How about socialized roads and road maintainance?  It seems to me, that some people just like to cry "Socialism!" whenever there's a social program that they don't personally want to pay for, but they love the social programs that benefit them.

It seems like you are saying that Rush, Hannity, and Beck, were students...and therefore subject to the predations of liberalism...
btw, rush is an asshole, hannity is a blowhard fool, and beck is in the ballpark quite often, but his theatrics are hard to stomach.
speaking of rush, do you remember the "white house dog" joke? what a prick that guy is


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21788640 - 06/10/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

None of those things you cited as examples are socialist, though.  Socialism is about government control of the means of production.  Police, fire, and roads aren't a means of production.  They are basic infrastructure of a government.  Healthcare also isn't a means of production, but it also isn't a fundamental and traditional part of the role of government.  It's certainly not socialism to regulate the health insurance industry, but there is a good argument for why it is a bad idea.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Enlil]
    #21788761 - 06/10/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/socialism

Quote:

Definition of socialism in English:
noun
1 A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.




By organizing, and paying for FDs, PDs, and road construction, and by regulating how these infrastucture resources will be used, i would say that the gov't does in fact control exchange and distribution of said infrastructure resources.  The gov't (local on up to federal) could be viewed as an extension of "the community as a whole", so explain to me again why this isn't socialism?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21788882 - 06/10/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You quoted a definition that doesn't mention infrastructure at all.  Governments always control the infrastructure.  That doesn't make all governments socialist.  Socialism is when the government controls the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods.  The police, fire, and roads aren't goods. 

Government services, whether they be few or numerous, aren't socialist.  Government controlling land, its use, it's resources, etc. isn't socialist.  When Government takes over the production of food, cars, widgets, etc. THAT's socialism.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Enlil]
    #21788952 - 06/10/15 03:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You quoted a definition that doesn't mention infrastructure at all.  Governments always control the infrastructure.  That doesn't make all governments socialist.  Socialism is when the government controls the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods.  The police, fire, and roads aren't goods. 

Government services, whether they be few or numerous, aren't socialist.  Government controlling land, its use, it's resources, etc. isn't socialist.  When Government takes over the production of food, cars, widgets, etc. THAT's socialism.




Ok, controlling infrastructure isn't socialism, but i would still contend that it's a close cousin.  As for production of food, cars, etc., the gov't takes a hand in those thing in the U.S. to greater or lesser degrees.  The farm bill is full of examples every time (how the gov't treats sugar is a good specific example). During the auto bailouts, the U.S. gov't became a shareholder in several manufacturers.
Thats not mentioning the hosts of regulations and gov't depts like the FDA and EPA for example.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #21789042 - 06/10/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Government regulation isn't socialism, either.  If regulation got to the level where the day to day operations of an industry are controlled by the government, that'd be a different thing.  That isn't the case in the U.S., though.

There are plenty of places on this planet that have seen the government take over entire industries.  That doesn't make those socialist governments, of course, but that is socialist policy.  We haven't seen that in this country, although the talking heads in the political media would love to claim that we have.  It's just far better for ratings to scream hyperbole than it is to argue facts.

I am all for less regulation, but arguing that regulation is socialist is intellectually dishonest and frankly just an emotional argument intended to scare people.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Enlil]
    #21789091 - 06/10/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not trying to scare anyone.  i'm trying to point out that some aspects of socialism are around us all the time, and aren't all bad. 

I'm sorry, but the Federal gov't passing laws to dictate the bottom price for U'S. produced sugar, and agreeing to buy any surplus at that rate is damned close to socialism.  it walks and quacks, ya dig?

My main point is that it isn't all or nothing.  Sure, there are times when compromise can only yield a lesser result, but there are likewise times when synthesis is a better approach. (in reference to Capitalism vs. Socialism)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21789137 - 06/10/15 04:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Sure, the U.S. is socialist to the same extent that The Rock is feminine. 

There are very few absolutes in the world, but talking about socialism in the U.S. is like discussing the lug nuts on a Lamborghini.  There are thousands of good/bad things about the U.S., but socialism isn't a significant factor one way or another.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Enlil]
    #21789183 - 06/10/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



:loldongs:

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, which is another reason that it's funny when people start crying about socialism.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Lived_1978-2043]
    #21790923 - 06/10/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Lived_1978-2043 said:
And if U are a tax payer... All I can say is thanks! If U dont like ppl like me, then understand, no one is stopping u from not paying taxes. If u work for an employer, I bet they automatically take out taxes. So then I say to that is U dont have to work for who takes taxes out automatically, if U have integrity to not stand for something like, say, leeches U might have a huge problem with aiding.





:what: Words fail me....


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Enlil]
    #21790927 - 06/10/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Sure, the U.S. is socialist to the same extent that The Rock is feminine. 

There are very few absolutes in the world, but talking about socialism in the U.S. is like discussing the lug nuts on a Lamborghini.  There are thousands of good/bad things about the U.S., but socialism isn't a significant factor one way or another.





I agree heartily.


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: memes]
    #21797686 - 06/12/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

memes said:
Quote:

Lived_1978-2043 said:
I only like that federal gov offers SSI benefits. (been on this since my mid 20s for being labeled paranoid s. This on makes me feel like I've retired to the benefit life, since SSI allows me to be in an Semi Indepentent Living program {a very nice apt in the burds as usually a co-tenant}.)

And I also only like that my state gov offers foodstamps via EBT card. (been with card since my mid 30s upon my apt residing.)





"Hi, i'm OP.  I only like the part of the government that pays my income since my 20s, my food since my 30s, and my housing these days.  Oh, and they'll be paying all of these things forever. because i live in America.

If i were born in India, statistically speaking i'd probably be born in a slum, and my family would've given up support long ago.  not being able to get my entire life subsidized like in America, I'd beg on the streets, steal, or get fucked (literally) in order to eat.  i'd sleep wherever.  until I died from abuse or malnourishment or disease.

but i only like that part of the government that pays for my food and housing and income.  the rest can suck it.  don't tread on me"





OP, i don't have respect for you.  not because you're disabled.  but because you're not disabled, you're lazy and lacking motivation.  you don't want to try, because you've never had to.  it's ok.  whatever, it's your life, or, half-life, or whatever you want to call your existence.  as long as you're happy

:cheersyoufuck:




This.:greatjob:

I like the active duty military. The only part of the government that can function without tripping over its own feet.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: myc_check1212]
    #21797867 - 06/12/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I like our roads, police departments, firefighters, national parks/forests, etc. And I think any first world country should have SOME form of safety net, however ours is way out of whack and needs large reforms.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: psyconaught]
    #21923051 - 07/10/15 03:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Regulation=Control

I wonder if people are really that dumb not to understand that or are just so blind to the facts they don't care...

anyone who doesn't see we are following in the footsteps of Greece and venezuela really baffle me... Do they not care about our country? Do they just hate it so damn much they'll do anything to see it destroyed? I really don't understand this ideology...


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Lived_1978-2043]
    #21925058 - 07/10/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Roads, schools, bridges, prisons, unemployment insurance, child protective services, parks, court system.


Lots of things to be liked in the government, even though some are implemented poorly or are wasteful, most are there for good reason.


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"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Can U name any aspects of fed and state goverment U do like? [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #21925389 - 07/10/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:
Roads, schools, bridges, prisons, unemployment insurance, child protective services, parks, court system.


Lots of things to be liked in the government, even though some are implemented poorly or are wasteful, most are there for good reason.




Socialist!


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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