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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21783134 - 06/09/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Not God, but an intelligent architect.


:ohyou:


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InvisibleJufin
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: secondorder]
    #21783474 - 06/09/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Secondorder, you are hitting the nail on the head in this thread.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Jufin]
    #21785182 - 06/09/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes Jufin, i am saying beneficial mutations are designed by DNA, and that it ultimately behaves in an intelligent and purposeful way.


How is it that out of an infinite realm of random mutation possibilities, with no information from the environment, a beneficial mutation can occur to create such diverse populations of life and intelligence?

Because according to Darwinism, this is whats occuring.
However, in the past 20 years, evidence has been piling up that DNA does recieve input from the environment and alters gene networks accordingly.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21785356 - 06/09/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If the DNA is so intelligent, why did it mutate into a panda?  An intelligent designer wouldn't design a creature that is a carnivore yet eats un-nutritious bamboo and doesn't like to mate.  What is so intelligent about that design? 

Was the DNA for animals that have gone extinct too stupid to realize?  Why didn't the dodo bird's DNA mutate back into flight so they could survive hunting?  If it was intelligent it would have.

That is a real linch pin in natural selection, it can only select from genes that happened to mutate and it can only optimize for the current fitness landscape, not the future one its going to live in.  Intelligence wouldn't be constrained by that.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: DieCommie]
    #21785640 - 06/09/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

DNA is just a long code of genes which codes for proteins to make an organism.  I don't understand where an "intelligent designer" aka god comes into the picture.  I thought the fact of evolution cleared that up nicely.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21785992 - 06/09/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Commie,
Diversity of life increasing overall complexity and organization.
A dodo bird may have been created as easy food for another predator, and pandas are well, pretty dumb, but perhaps there is an unseen reason behind the bamboo eating in relation to the whole of life and where its going.

The emergence of human intelligence, imo, is a magnification of what's really going on with DNA in relation to complexity theory.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21786008 - 06/09/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
DNA is just a long code of genes which codes for proteins to make an organism.  I don't understand where an "intelligent designer" aka god comes into the picture.  I thought the fact of evolution cleared that up nicely.



DNA alters its code in real-time, intelligently for adaption, and these changes are inheritable.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21786013 - 06/09/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The emergence of human beings is clearly from the line of previous members of the homo genus.  There is no missing link the fossil record shows exactly where we came.  It just so happens no other members of the homo genus are alive, so in that respect we look special and different.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21786016 - 06/09/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

This is a fact and has only just recently (within the past year) been discovered.
it was long thought that DNA remained relatively stable throughout an organisms life, thanks to Darwinism.

However, this is clearly not the case.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21786027 - 06/09/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
DNA alters its code in real-time, intelligently for adaption, and these changes are inheritable.



DNA doesn't alter anything, mutations are random.  Did you learn anything in this alleged class you allegedly finished top of?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21786036 - 06/09/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
The emergence of human beings is clearly from the line of previous members of the homo genus.  There is no missing link the fossil record shows exactly where we came.  It just so happens no other members of the homo genus are alive, so in that respect we look special and different.



We create physical adaptions in the form of technology and tools.

In that respect, we became a sort of singularity of change previously unseen on the planet.
AI and transhumanism will bring about the next singular change.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21786045 - 06/09/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That science fiction has nothing to do with your previous post.  Are you just thinking out loud here?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21786079 - 06/09/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Caution: Entering hTxLand.

:magicfingers:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21786130 - 06/09/15 11:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

hTx said:
DNA alters its code in real-time, intelligently for adaption, and these changes are inheritable.



DNA doesn't alter anything, mutations are random.  Did you learn anything in this alleged class you allegedly finished top of?



You are wrong.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150427112559.htm
""We used to think that once a cell reaches full maturation, its DNA is totally stable, including the molecular tags attached to it to control its genes and maintain the cell's identity," says Hongjun Song, Ph.D., a professor of neurology and neuroscience in the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine's Institute for Cell Engineering. "This research shows that some cells actually alter their DNA all the time, just to perform everyday functions."

Did you know that there is no evidence that beneficial mutations are completely random?


That we only think that because that is what fits the model laid out by Darwin?


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21786142 - 06/09/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Mutations aren't beneficial they are random, they are neither good or bad. Hence RANDOM MUTATION.  Have you listened to a single word I have said?  Or are you surfing google for something to take out of context and claim as proof?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21786183 - 06/09/15 11:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I feel sad seeing the level of edumacation devolving before my eyes. :sadyes:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21786218 - 06/09/15 11:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You mad bro?

Your point that DNA doesn't alter anything has been shown as completely false, now you are really showing your ignorance by claiming that some mutations are not beneficial.
It has been known for decades in bacteria and phage that mutations can occur in clusters and in hotspots that occur in particular sequence contexts.

What is usually meant by randomness with respect to mutagenesis is that it seems mutations occur without regard to their immediate adaptive value. Their location and frequency has been long known to be non-random.

The fact that most mutations are not beneficial to an organism/species is evidence that most mutations are simply a fuck-up of letter sequence in DNA, in fact, thats exactly what a mutation is, hence the seeming randomness behind it.

Now, how is it that a fuck-up of sequencing leads to a beneficial trait?

That has yet to be explained by modern biology.


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Offlinesecondorder
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21786321 - 06/09/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

..."This research shows that some cells actually alter their DNA all the time, just to perform everyday functions."




I don't have a deep enough understanding of cell biology to really understand what the article is saying, but let me think out loud here for a second: Let's say that cells have the ability to "alter their DNA all the time, just to perform everyday functions." Wouldn't this ability itself be the product of a random mutation? Wouldn't the ability to alter DNA, be governed by information kept in the DNA, which would have had to randomly mutate into the DNA at some point? Anything that the cell can do, or that DNA can do, must be the product of a former random mutation right? Or are you claiming that DNA sprung into existence with the ability to intelligently guide its own mutations?

Quote:

Did you know that there is no evidence that beneficial mutations are completely random?


That we only think that because that is what fits the model laid out by Darwin?




You seem to be ignoring one of the main points put forward in this thread. I would like you to answer, or to try your best to answer the following questions, so that we can further understand your view:

1) If DNA is intelligent, and guides its own mutations toward some desired end, then why are the vast majority of mutations completely miserable, unsuccessful, un-beneficial fuck-ups?

2) Why do mutations that cause cancer happen so often? Why do mutations cause still-borns and birth defects so often? If DNA design is so intelligent, then why does it seem so unintelligent?

3) If DNA doesn't require reproduction to change, and can alter itself throughout our lifetime "in real-time", then why is it that we die? Why doesn't DNA stop letting itself degrade and turn us into immortal ever-improving super-organisms? Surely if DNA can alter itself in real time, then it wouldn't take billions of years (making mistakes at every turn and causing countless unnecessary suffering and deaths) to reach it's end goal would it?

Please don't ignore these questions any longer, for they are the key to us understanding your position, and coming to a reasonable conclusion together.


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Offlinesecondorder
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: hTx]
    #21786379 - 06/10/15 12:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

now you are really showing your ignorance by claiming that some mutations are not beneficial.




Quote:

The fact that most mutations are not beneficial to an organism/species...




Is it just me, or is this a stark self-contradiction?

Quote:

Now, how is it that a fuck-up of sequencing leads to a beneficial trait?

That has yet to be explained by modern biology.




If something makes enough mistakes, eventually it will stumble across a mistake that benefits it. When an organism reproduces, the offspring don't have identical DNA. Some will have DNA which will codes for proteins that will benefit the organism's survival. Some will have different DNA, that codes for proteins that will be a detriment to the organisms survival. If a gazelle has, say, five offspring, some will be faster runners than others, based on differences in their DNA, caused by random mutations. Some will be slower than their mother, some faster, because they all received random DNA mutations, some of which improve their likelihood of survival and some of which detract from their likelihood of survival.
The reason evolution by natural selection has been central to biology for so long is that it is extremely simple to understand, yet powerful enough to explain so much depth and complexity within biology. I continue to fail to see your reasons for rejecting it.


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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: secondorder]
    #21786396 - 06/10/15 12:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Is it just me, or is this a stark self-contradiction?





Coherency and consistency are not part of the hTx paradigm.

:goat:


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