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Shroomism
Space Travellin



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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: 404] 1
#21773685 - 06/07/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said: and for a more recent science article...
Quote:
The loss of integrity in the lung endothelial cells—the cells that make up the lining of the lungs—can contribute to lung injury and inflammation, but it is unknown what component of cigarette smoke causes lung cells to breakdown. Researchers wrote, “We investigated if nicotine, one of the hundreds of molecules present in [cigarette smoke] extracts, is sufficient to alter lung endothelial barrier function by affecting cytoskeletal regulation,” which is the cell’s internal matrix that supports cell shape and function.
The researchers exposed mice and both human and mouse cells to cigarette smoke and e-cigarette solution that either contained nicotine or was nicotine-free. Their findings shed light on how cigarette smoke damages the lungs and point directly to nicotine as the cause. “Nicotine has dose-dependent deleterious pulmonary effects that result in loss of lung endothelial barrier function, acute lung inflammation and decreased lung endothelial cell proliferation,” they wrote. The effects of nicotine were seen both in cigarette smoke and in e-cig solutions that contained nicotine.
Interestingly, nicotine-free e-cig solutions were also found to include lung-harming substances, such as acrolein. This substance, which is present in both e-cig solution and vapor, has been shown to damage the lungs by attacking the molecules that hold endothelial cells together.
“The increased use of inhaled nicotine via e-cigarettes, especially among the youth, prompts increased research into the effects on health. This research reports that components found in commercially available e-cigarette solutions and vapors generated by heating them may cause lung inflammation,” said lead researcher Irina Petrache, PhD. “The effects described characterize short-term effects of e-cig exposures. Whereas studies of long-term effects await further investigations, these results caution that e-cigarette inhalation may be associated with adverse effects on lung health.
i would not go with a vape to quit smoking if you're just going to switch to it instead for the long term.
http://www.the-aps.org/mm/hp/Audiences/Public-Press/2015/25.html
This study was debunked as bad science and was a flawed study. I'm trying to find the actual link, but basically they obtained their results the same way the flawed "formaldehyde" scare study started. They were severely overheating the devices beyond what any normal vaper would ever be able to tolerate, and were producing "dry hits". You can read about that in one of the links I posted before. And another one here. Basically, no human would be able to tolerate vaping those hits as they would burn like fuck and taste like shit. Not to mention, they don't even mention their sources or what devices they were using, which is terrible science. They could have gotten the ejuice from China for all we know, which have had many known contamination issues, Which many of these studies have done in the past. Things like tank size, wattage/voltage, and more all have a dramatic impact on vapor production and could have an impact vis-a-vis health issues, without this information it is a completely crap study. THIS is a much more realistic comparison of the chemicals produced or inhaled during normal vaping vs cigarettes. This is also a much more realistic study.
Acrolein is produced from burning cotton. Or can be produced from propylene glycol at temperatures over 280C. Normal ecigs are not capable of even reaching 280c unless you are severely overheating the device or running outside of specs or running an unregulated device, not to mention the burning effect, which a vaper would not even be able to tolerate. So it's pretty safe to assume the acrolein they detected, was from overheating the device and burning the cotton wick with dry hits. Which would be virtually impossible for any human to tolerate. Any vaper will tell you taking a dry hit of burnt cotton is basically the worst thing you can do and within a split second of tasting it you will gag and take it away from your mouth. The flawed formaldehyde study used the same technique and they were SEVERELY overheating the devices and producing dry hits for up to 60 seconds and feeding through a machine. All the "aldehydes" they detected were from the dry hits, and no vaper would even be able to tolerate that for half a second.
Furthermore they are doing this using cultures which may not translate to actual human effects. They also used mice which have much smaller lungs comparably and this may not at all translate to actual human use. It would have been better if they examined actual vaper's lungs and newly Vaper's lungs charting their progress and examining the extent of damage if any over time, as well as comparing it side by side to cigarettes. Instead this is a cheap study with dubious methodology. Furthermore a secondary control of just glycerine(fog machine fog juice) would have been warranted to test if any additional additives are the causes of any damage as opposed to the main vaping ingredient. It is well known in the vaping community that there are certain flavors to be avoided as they are not safe for vaping, but some unscrupulous manufacturers still use those flavors. That alone could explain the inflammation. They also rely on one manufacturer so there is no way to tell even if there is damage if it is unique to the one manufacturer's products or not. This was a cheap and mostly useless study that does not have any real depth or scope to prove one way or the other if vaping is harmful. This study also refers to propylene glycol as "antifreeze" (BS) and is clearly biased. Judging by some of the language used and vitally important omitted details, this is just another scare monger study put out by interest groups, most likely funded by Marlboro. But I can't find out who funded this study because they have it encrypted as "Funding sources: RO1HL077328 (IP); R21DA029249". Every single study I have found "proving" harmful effects of vaping has used these bad science methods and I have found has been directly funded by either Pfizer or Big tobacco companies or one of their sisters.
Of course any amount of inhalation of anything but air can cause minor lung irritation or inflammation. But how harmful is this? Well, check out the links in my sig and some of the links I posted earlier, there have been multitudes of non-biased scientific studies, on actual humans, using actual real world data. As for this particular study, it's basically complete crap for the reasons listed above. Are ecigs completely 100% safe? We don't know for complete certain yet. What we DO know, is that it is a MUCH MUCH MUCH safer alternative to smoking.
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: Shroomism]
#21773717 - 06/07/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's true
Dry hits are HORRIBLE
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#21773733 - 06/07/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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horrible? that is a huge understatement
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: rackem]
#21773758 - 06/07/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thats why I put it in all caps
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#21773771 - 06/07/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Watch, in a year people won't even remember what dry/burnt hits were anymore as most everyone will have a temp. control device. But yea, they are fucking bad!
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: kr0nik0]
#21773776 - 06/07/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This thread makes me need a smoke.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: rackem]
#21773780 - 06/07/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
rackem said: horrible? that is a huge understatement
Fucking WRETCHED
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: Shroomism]
#21773790 - 06/07/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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thats more like it.
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: rackem]
#21773818 - 06/07/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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But even with temp control you could still get dry hits if the wicking isnt correct
Once you get a dry hit you will go to great lengths to avoid it
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



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Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#21773825 - 06/07/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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For serious. It's something to be avoided at all costs. I'm very meticulous now when building my coils and wicks, and making sure I keep my wicks wet with juice.
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
#21773841 - 06/07/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's true.
For people that are considering vaping in this thread and don't know what we're talking about, I compare a dry hit to when smoking a cigarette, lighting the butt of the cig by accident and taking the biggest drag you can.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: kr0nik0]
#21773855 - 06/07/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's a pretty good comparison actually. Shit, I'd say burning cotton is even worse. I've smoked butts a few times on accident (pulling a cig out and lighting it backwards).. yeah it tastes like absolute ass. But dry hits taste like complete shit AND burn like a motherfucker. It's enough to make a person puke.
Really though, that's generally only something that us drippers have to worry about. Most people will never experience it with a tank.. unless you are running it dry.
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: Shroomism]
#21773939 - 06/07/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Indeed. Dry hits also linger in my palate for such a long time. I'm the opposite when it comes to dripping vs tanks, though. I'll get the occasional "moist" hit since the Derringer has such a small juice well, but have never gotten a make me tear up in disgust burnt hit.
It's happened a lot more frequently with me using the RBA section for the Subtank and especially rebuilding the OCC heads (both due to wicking on my part). Sorry to go off on a tangent here, but do you still have/use a subtank, Shroomism?
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: kr0nik0]
#21773967 - 06/07/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nah all my tanks are dead/out of commission.. or I wouldn't want to use them. I never actually had a subtank.. but I have friends who do and I like them. I didn't think about the RBA deal though.. I was thinking of prebuilt coils which most people will use
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: Shroomism]
#21773983 - 06/07/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I keep assuming you had one because I believe you were the one that suggested it to me when I was ordering my first setup.
Doesn't it become inconvenient for you to drip while driving for long distances? I've tried to drip a couple times in the car and I ended up getting all sticky so I haven't tried again lol.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: kr0nik0] 1
#21774009 - 06/07/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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dripping and driving is bad news.
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Shroomslip
Architekt



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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: Shroomism]
#21774100 - 06/07/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: That's a pretty good comparison actually. Shit, I'd say burning cotton is even worse. I've smoked butts a few times on accident (pulling a cig out and lighting it backwards).. yeah it tastes like absolute ass. But dry hits taste like complete shit AND burn like a motherfucker. It's enough to make a person puke.
Really though, that's generally only something that us drippers have to worry about. Most people will never experience it with a tank.. unless you are running it dry.
I use a tank and got my first dry hit last night. Never had one before, but I took a big lung full and then realized it was burning like a mother fucker. It is pretty bad. Made me paranoid about my next few hits. Didn't run the tank dry either, it was full. I tend to chain hit it right before bed so that may be why.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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space walk
Enthusiast



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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: Shroomslip]
#21774487 - 06/07/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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a dry hit feels like getting a catch in your throat while taking a super-big bong rip and you for some reason decide to finish the hit and hold it in despite your eyes watering and everything in your body telling you to let it go so you can cough.
yeah, it's kinda like that
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Knowledge is the best gift; it's fun to obtain, free to give, and priceless to receive.
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Imperfect Iam
^means imperfect,not I'm perfect


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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: space walk]
#21774663 - 06/07/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Around here they are selling little vaporizers for smoking dabs, r hash out of, actually I'm not sure if they r used for dabs, cause I have never seen anyone have that, but I know hash for sure, my buddy said it works awesome!
-------------------- All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon
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GhettoShroom
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Re: I really don't know how people quit cigs. [Re: Imperfect Iam]
#21774706 - 06/07/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just wanted to chime in, totally agree with Shroomism.. Get yourself a good mod, dont go cheap. spend $200 and get something decent. I've been back and forth vaping and smoking for about 2 years. Just got an IPV Mini 2 and a Kangertech Subtank Mini, Amazing, haven't touched a cig since. Good luck OP
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“There is a transcendental dimension beyond language. It’s just hard as hell to talk about it.” - Terence Mckenna All of RR's notes on cultivation
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