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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Atheist pAradox
#21768773 - 06/06/15 02:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Atheists believe in a sort of nothingness. literally nothing , an eternal blackness upon death. But then, thats quite alike pre-birth or conception, isnt it? So then, which is it? Death? Or pre-birth?
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21769130 - 06/06/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Aha! A psychological profiling prepared by cultural sociologists! I'm on to you Professor Moriarty!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21769322 - 06/06/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Atheists believe in a sort of nothingness.
Despite covering this silliness hundreds of times, the mental thickness remains. Atheism is not a belief in anything, it is a refutation towards a specific god claim.
The atheist stance is simple: that the god claimant provided insufficient evidence to back up their assertion. That is it. There is no universal dogma regarding life after death.
Now can we move on to something with some more meat and with less semantic jerking off?
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
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What's the difference between pre-conception and death?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
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One doesn't involve cooking your mama breakfast.
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Khancious
da Crow



Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Now can we move on to something with some more meat and with less semantic jerking off?
Like feminism?
-------------------- I am that, which is.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21789601 - 06/10/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Death? Or pre-birth?
I've always said that if you used to be a woman, you become an egg, and if you used to be a man, you become a sperm. If you had no soul in your previous life, you become dead sperm. 'Tis simple.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MinnesnowtaNice
FriendofHagrid


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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21790632 - 06/10/15 09:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: Atheists believe in a sort of nothingness. literally nothing , an eternal blackness upon death. But then, thats quite alike pre-birth or conception, isnt it? So then, which is it? Death? Or pre-birth?
Being an atheist I can say all it means is I don't believe in religion or a higher creator/power. It doesn't mean we believe in nothingness?
-------------------- we are all thought forms in a cloud of synchronistic events.
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Arctic W. Fox

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All sorts of fail, this thread is.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
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Loc: Space-time
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Haha so now all the atheists believe in an after-life?
(;
So you see believing in nothing after-death still implies something?
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Arctic W. Fox

Registered: 09/23/14
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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21791347 - 06/11/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I believe I'm gonna need another beer.
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21791358 - 06/11/15 01:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Haha so now all the atheists believe in an after-life?
(;
So you see believing in nothing after-death still implies something?
Why can't we just leave it as a question mark? Nobody knows what happens after death, and that includes you!
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Lol where are you getting i know what happens after death? I'm simply stating that if we think nothing happens, it introduces an interesting paradox.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21795685 - 06/12/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lol where are you getting i know what happens after death?
You seem to hint at it (among other things):
Quote:
Atheists believe in a sort of nothingness...
You make this statement as if you were talking about a group that you are not a part of. That was just my guess, I suppose it's possible that you are an atheist. If you are not an atheist, then you are a theist, and most theists tend to believe in an afterlife. Again, I'm not putting you in this category, you have just tended (from what I've seen of your posts) to adopt propositions of a theistic flavor.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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I am agnostic, but i have had many interesting and intense experiences of a mystical nature.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21795790 - 06/12/15 01:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have met many atheists which say nothing happens at death, like a candle who's flames gone out. Just poof, gone.
I brought up to a few that would be a lot like what its like before being born..and if we emerged once from nothing, why not again?
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Fattiglapp
Registered: 06/12/15
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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21796038 - 06/12/15 04:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The topic could be better worded.
Alan Watts said something similarly in a talk and it does equate to the infinite monkey theorem. But I think we would have to realize what consciousness is before we get to the point where we think it can be recreated. Let us say it is a illusion created out of multiple senses being put together and given the ability of thinking. Then my question is: If we would make a perfect copy of your brain and put it in function, would you then perceive from both brains or only exist in your original one? E.g. is the other you really the same you?
-------------------- shall we go, you and I while we can.. Through, the transitive nightfall of diamonds
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Sammysong
Dreamer



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There have been no cultures founded on 'atheism' as a philosophy, unless you count communist states such as the USSR and North Korea, which are not very good models in terms of respect for human rights and observance of the rule of law. All of the traditional cultures grew from religious roots, or incorporated religious ideas in their formation. Of course times have changed since these cultures became established, but the role of religious myths and ideas are still foundational in respect to the deep ideological structures around which these societies are constructed. Western Liberalism, notwithstanding the move away from religion, still has deep roots in the Judeo-Christian heritage and the values that it helped to create, such as respect for the individual, freedom of conscience, and so on. Many of the virtues which secular philosophies take for granted actually had their roots in such ideas.
It is true that atheists can be good people, but that must be attributable to either human nature, or the society they grew up in. Human beings are not naturally disposed towards doing good or being good. If they were, there would be no need of laws and police forces, not to mention armies. If they are indeed good people, one is entitled to ask why. If you jettison the cultural heritage of tradition, with its various fables, myths, homilies and moral stories, you will have an immense amount of work to do to re-invent something equivalent to them. Where are the principles that you build a replacement framework around? So, even though it is true that atheists can be good people, it is hard to show what about atheism, in particular, makes them that way. Who are the atheist moral philosophers to whom we should look for guidance?
This leads to the question of what are 'real goods'. I would argue that ultimately the question of whether there are real goods, a moral good that it is really worth pursuing, is hard to articulate in atheist terms. Atheism is a negative argument - it is based around the denial of something. The question is, what is the need that brought forth that which atheism denies? What does it actually offer? Granted, the atheist does not believe it offers anything. But this means, they don't feel they have to offer anything in return. Now the religious feel that they are achieving something through their faith -either part of a community of belief, or a framework which validates good actions, and ultimately, something corresponding to "heaven". The atheist response is, there is no ultimate meaning, such ideas as 'heaven' are a myth for the weak minded. And you just have to accept that fact, because it is said to be 'rational'.
Richard Dawkins, one of the leading proponents of atheism, freely admits that Darwinian principles are a terrible basis for a social philosophy. When pressed as to what a social philosophy might consist of in the absence of any religious ideas, he says that people need to 'create their own meaning'. But he also says that the Universe is ultimately a meaningless place, so how one is to 'create meaning' in the absence of any real or objective moral order, remains an open question.
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
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You've made many false claims. I'm going to focus on only the more egregious.
Quote:
I would argue that ultimately the question of whether there are real goods, a moral good that it is really worth pursuing, is hard to articulate in atheist terms.
I think Sam Harris in "The Moral Landscape" does a pretty good job of it. I'll try my best to sum up his argument:
It is self evident that suffering is bad, and happiness is good We should therefore strive for well-being Morality, therefore, has to do with the well-being of conscious creatures. The well-being of conscious creatures has a lot to do with their brain-states. Brain states are measurable through scientific means Morality, is therefore ultimately a scientific field
Quote:
Atheism is a negative argument - it is based around the denial of something.
No it isn't. Atheism... A-theism. An atheist is someone who is not a theist. I am not a theist, therefore i am an atheist. I think it is possible, but improbable that a god exists. I don't need to negate the existence of a god in order to be an atheist, I simply need to not be a theist.
Quote:
The question is, what is the need that brought forth that which atheism denies? What does it actually offer? Granted, the atheist does not believe it offers anything. But this means, they don't feel they have to offer anything in return. Now the religious feel that they are achieving something through their faith -either part of a community of belief, or a framework which validates good actions, and ultimately, something corresponding to "heaven".
I don't believe that religion doesn't offer anything, I don't see why you have to put words in the mouths of atheists. Again, I think it apt to give one of Sam Harris's analogies: Believing in Santa serves a purpose for many millions of children. It makes them happy and excited, it is a shining example of universal generosity and love. Upon learning that Santa isn't real, we don't replace the belief with another belief in an imaginary character. "Do we replace Santa Claus with anything? No. We just oblige people to grow up." There are ways of developing a community, finding purpose in life, encouraging good behavior and deterring bad behavior, without pretending to know things we do not know. A belief in the supernatural is not required to live a good life.
Quote:
The atheist response is, there is no ultimate meaning, such ideas as 'heaven' are a myth for the weak minded. And you just have to accept that fact, because it is said to be 'rational'.
Not true. Again, putting words in the mouths of atheists. You are confusing objectivity outside of perception for objectivity within perception. Me experiencing joy from viewing art is a subjective phenomenon, however, it is an objective fact that I experience joy from viewing art. Subjective meaning becomes necessitates objective meaning. If Sammysong draws meaning from parenting, then it is an objective fact that Sammysong is living a meaningful life, where else could meaning exist, even in theory.. other than in our experiences?
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Kinko
Stranger



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Re: Atheist pAradox [Re: hTx]
#21801148 - 06/13/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: Atheists believe in a sort of nothingness. literally nothing , an eternal blackness upon death. But then, thats quite alike pre-birth or conception, isnt it? So then, which is it? Death? Or pre-birth?
I bet you are atheist to the Koran or Muslim religion.. how. naive of you...
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