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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21772563 - 06/07/15 12:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psychonautica said:
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/scientists-closer-ever-discovering-cause-schizophrenia

Quote:

“We’re finally starting to understand what goes wrong in schizophrenia,” lead author Dr. Andrew Pocklington said in a statement. “We now have what we hope is a pretty sizeable piece of the jigsaw puzzle that will help us develop a coherent model of the disease, while helping us to rule out some of the alternatives.




Turns out, you do have to be genetically inclined to have schizophrenia. Thoughts?




Well we can never prove anything in this reality 100%.

But one day we may be 80% sure that 50% of schizophrenics are of a bad gene type / mutation.

There is likely also lifestyle schizophrenia from drugs i.e.
Drugs can alter the mind a lot, so much no science can predict

So theories are just that, theories, can be fun and all
Just don't take any theory as the ultimate truth, then you limit yourself

Theories color our vision/lens of viewing reality. Now we don't see the whole anymore, but only what we want to see.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: lessismore]
    #21772565 - 06/07/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There is also "random" mutations schizophrenia likely

Every cell in our body divides, and random mutations occur

"if you believe in randomness" - personally I don't
but randomness appeals to scientists and people who believe we are our brains/evolution etc


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: lessismore]
    #21772712 - 06/07/15 02:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

in this show they said because we discovered fire we were able to cook food to aid digestion so our brains got bigger, then there was a time during agriculture that everyone got shorter because they were much further from africa

kinda funny tho considering you could devolve if you just stopped eating certain foods or cooking (tho you would most likely die and everyone would laugh at you)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Psychonautica] * 1
    #21772714 - 06/07/15 02:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psychonautica said:
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/scientists-closer-ever-discovering-cause-schizophrenia

Quote:

“We’re finally starting to understand what goes wrong in schizophrenia,” lead author Dr. Andrew Pocklington said in a statement. “We now have what we hope is a pretty sizeable piece of the jigsaw puzzle that will help us develop a coherent model of the disease, while helping us to rule out some of the alternatives.




Turns out, you do have to be genetically inclined to have schizophrenia. Thoughts?




Thoughts? This thing I read earlier contradicts this

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cat-parasite-toxoplasma-gondii-linked-to-mental-illness-schizophrenia/
http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964%2815%2900176-0/abstract
http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/3/757.full
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/03/how-your-cat-is-making-you-crazy/308873/?single_page=true

Based on the research, it seems like schizophrenia could be caused by genetics.. at at least make a person predisposed to it
But it seems environmental factors.. are a factor too.

And it seems the notion of the "crazy cat lady" is true. heh.


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772885 - 06/07/15 05:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That doesn't contradict it though necessarily, I'd imagine once you kill the parasite you lose the symptoms right?

Interesting still


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21772911 - 06/07/15 05:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I was just taking opposition to the claim that it may only be through genetics.

I'm not sure if there's a cure for toxoplasmosis.. there's treatments for it that can basically eliminate most of the symptoms.. but AFAIK there isn't a cure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis

But it seems many people can become immune to it.

It also seems it is mostly transferred to humans from cat feces from infected cats, but the disease doesn't become infectious in the feces until about 1-5 days after. So it should only really a problem for cat people that don't regularly clean out the litter box..
It also seems most people who have it, don't experience any symptoms at all. Mostly people with weakened immune systems are most at risk.


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772916 - 06/07/15 05:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So is toxoplasmosis a different disease that has schizophrenic symptoms, or is it literally schizophrenia? It goes back to the flu vs a cold metaphor when I compared Meth psychosis to schizophrenia. It's not schizophrenia but it has the same or similar symptoms.
I'd imagine this isn't common in the modern western world

Welp. Guess I was wrong about it being uncommon.
Quote:

Up to half of the world's human population is estimated to carry a Toxoplasma infection.




--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica


Edited by Psychonautica (06/07/15 05:44 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21772919 - 06/07/15 05:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

No it's doesn't mimic the symptoms.. research has found that people with toxoplasmosis, it can effect the brain in certain ways that can actually bring out depression, suicidal thoughts, OCD, ADHD and schizophrenia.. the actual mental illnesses, not just similar symptoms.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/03/how-your-cat-is-making-you-crazy/308873/?single_page=true
http://dx.doi.org/10.4088%2FJCP.11m07532

It's not AS common in the western world, but a lot of people still have it. They estimate around 60 million people have it in the US...so roughly 20%..  but in other countries the number is much much higher.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772923 - 06/07/15 05:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

well maybe being up all night on meth could bring that out in you:lol:


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772927 - 06/07/15 05:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That one link you gave is wild, they were saying that before the flu takes effect, u get more socially active, and they were saying the they think the virus causes you to do that, so it can be spread, that's some crazy shit, just think about how much we really don't know!


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All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Konyap]
    #21772929 - 06/07/15 05:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ah. I didn't have time to read up on it much because I'm at work I'll have to check it out

It seems to cause encephalitis as well, I'm not denying that physical damage to the brain can obviously cause schizophrenia and all those other symptoms and especially seizures. I have epilepsy from taking a shot to the noodle as a kid. So I know how much damage you can do to your brain.

Thanks for posting this, gonna have to read up on it..

Is another side effect that causes women to buy more and more cats so the parasite can reproduce? :lol:

Also I have no haven't seen meth psychosis that doesn't go away from sleep. Usually if it doesn't I think that the people were already predisposed.

We really don't know shit about the brain so it's hard to say

Also, thinking that parasites in your brain are controlling your actions sounds like schizophrenia already, hahah. Even if the parasites aren't doing it that sounds almost delusional to me.

They have a lot of real scientists saying it has merit, but if you read the article it says he did the research himself, and not done by a lab or a team.. So it very well could be that this guy just has schizophrenia. Or even some other disease. It's almost a coping method. Every time you fuck up you can blame it on the parasite.

I'm not saying he's not right, because we don't know, I'm just saying I'm doubtful, because his original hypothesis sounds like schizophrenia to begin with.

Which could actually be the parasite doing that, or he could just be crazy.

Look how often schizophrenic people on this website have life changing discoveries and try to explain them, this could already just be a delusion to begin with.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica


Edited by Psychonautica (06/07/15 06:07 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21772937 - 06/07/15 06:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah while we understand a lot about the body now that we didn't know shit about 20-50 years ago... the brain is still basically the wild west.. it's crazy how much we don't know about the brain. While we understand more than ever before.. there's still a LOT we have no fucking clue about.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Konyap]
    #21772942 - 06/07/15 06:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
in this show they said because we discovered fire we were able to cook food to aid digestion so our brains got bigger, then there was a time during agriculture that everyone got shorter because they were much further from africa

kinda funny tho considering you could devolve if you just stopped eating certain foods or cooking (tho you would most likely die and everyone would laugh at you)




From one view evolution looks obvious, many cases of evolution in man and animal

From another view evolution cannot explain it all, or fails slightly

I don't believe evolution is all, the human body and brain is a miracle, even scientists should acknowledge that

From the quantum perspective -nothing- is random
Evolution is purely randomness, due to randomness the best traits get selected

In quantum mechanics our reality is designed not by chance, but only in certain specific ways, there are only so many allowable states in nature

You could say reality is programmed. We're inside a big computer it looks like.
Cells and dna are pretty perfect computers/machines.

Cell division, programmed cell death, error correction, dna repair, transporter molecules - every cell in your body can communicate with one another

The cell looks almost godly in this way. Evolution will have a hard time explaining all, our body is redundant in many ways, our dna can repair itself

I find that fascinating... cells are so hard to understand that scientists use a lifetime or more to try to understand
the brain is equally hard to understand

the brain is like the cell is like the universe - equally hard to comprehend to a rational mind


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772946 - 06/07/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I edited that, but I kinda want to hear your thoughts on that last part.

His hypothesis sounds almost delusional to begin with, if all this discovery is just a schizophrenic psychosis I'd believe that as well.

Something isn't right upstairs if you think parasites are controlling your brain. Either something is wrong in your brain because they are controlling it, or you're just fucking crazy. Hahaha.

How would we ever observe this actually happening though? We can't just note changes in behavior after infection, because getting cancer causes changes in behavior too, it's not controlling your brain but having cancer drives almost everyone to live healthier.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: lessismore]
    #21772947 - 06/07/15 06:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And that of course doesn't rule out that we understand a lot, but comparing to the whole we understand very little :-)

Genetics and biology has come a long way, and now epigenetics too I heard

To think a cell is simple, that would be a gross underestimation
Cells are about the most complex machines I can come off... insanely complex and "perfect"

Very close to perfection..

We could only hope to design such a perfect machine ourselves


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772949 - 06/07/15 06:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry to beat talking about that MDPV in the ground, but there was another side effect it caused I wanted to tell ya, and it happened to everyone I knew who took it, you could not hold your piss, if you had to piss, u better go right away, otherwise you would piss yourself, fucked up!


--------------------
All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21772953 - 06/07/15 06:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure where you get that from.... parasites and disease can definitely affect the brain and behavior. It says nothing about the parasite itself "controlling" your brain.. but rather it rewires synapses and neural pathways and modulates dopamine and norepinephrine. It's definitely not unprecedented... there are other parasites that can do similar things. But we don't hear about them much because it usually effects animals and not humans.
Here's a more in-depth explanation. - http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/spring-2010/rewiring-the-brain-insanity-by-parasite


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772959 - 06/07/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I'm not sure where you get that from.... parasites and disease can definitely affect the brain and behavior. It says nothing about the parasite itself "controlling" your brain.. but rather it rewires synapses and neural pathways and modulates dopamine and norepinephrine. It's definitely not unprecedented... there are other parasites that can do similar things. But we don't hear about them much because it usually effects animals and not humans.
Here's a more in-depth explanation. - http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/spring-2010/rewiring-the-brain-insanity-by-parasite




Look up "hook worm" on the internet

it can cause psychosis in healthy individuals, it can also crawl from your lungs and into your eyes

That's one nasty bastard worm... and you can get it from walking barefoot
bad new to the hippies!

But it's true... it changes peoples consciousness when it crawls into people's brains
and its very common it does that after a long time, then later into people's eyes is common too

So not unlikely schizophrenia could be caused by worms or parasites, but a normal psychosis would be more likely, as worms move
Schizophrenia is more long lasting

If the worms make permanent damage it might be possible though!

Lastly I probably need to mention that there are a dozen of real physical illnesses to the body that can cause psychosis that mimics schizophrenia...
Body and mind are closely linked, damage one, you damage the other likely

A mind cannot function without a healthy body, chemical imbalances in body can destroy mind

So the patient might just have cancer in advanced stage, not schizophrenia

People have gotten diagnosed psychotic and even been thrown in mental wards, but then they had worms, or kidney disease! - so a lot of things can affect the mind. You can see the scientific journals describing this if you google hook worm consciousness hook worm psychosis
The best part is that hook worm is not just native to africa or such, any country has it iirc, you can get it from your dog or cat!
It bites through your skin, enters your lungs, then crawl to your brain
It often lives in the earth, so if you walk barefoot in your garden you are at risk too. It bites through your feet.


Edited by lessismore (06/07/15 06:34 AM)


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InvisiblePsychonautica
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Shroomism]
    #21772961 - 06/07/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Imperfect, you're cool don't worry about it. My threads go all over the place usually but they're always a good show. :smile: don't apologize for sharing your thoughts.

In the last article you posted, it said that parasites rewiring brains in large mammals almost never happens. I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm just saying the hypothesis is pretty far out there. I just don't see how someone wakes up one day and says, you know, I think a parasite rewired my brain.

For instance, I used to hate black coffee. I loved those sugary fake milk coffee Starbucks concoctions.

Then I slept with this girl and she made me the most disgusting tasting piss water light beer of coffee, and it was so horrible I've drank my coffee black ever since. I know my taste changed from having a bad experience,

But if I said I drink coffee black now because of a parasite that lives in coffee beans that forces you to enjoy black coffee so it doesn't get watered down and diluted by milk you'd call me crazy.

Shitty metaphor, but it might clear up what I meant by saying he sounds crazy

I'm not denying his hypothesis or theory. It's just pretty far out.


--------------------
The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one
3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother.
Sheekle said:
yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Schizophrenia is caused by DNA. [Re: Psychonautica]
    #21772972 - 06/07/15 06:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's not just one guy though. If that were the case, I would be inclined to agree. But there have been multiple scientific articles and case studies on it.

Here's one - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851063/
And another - http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0023277
And another - http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/273/1602/2749

There's no definitive causation.. but there is definitely correlation.


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