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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense
    #21767772 - 06/05/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What is the nature of mystery?
I once had an ego-loss experience on psilocybin mushrooms where my ego died and I came face to face with the mystery. It was ineffable, unspeakable, and wholey other. It was shocking, amazing, blissful and mindblowing.

Years later I experienced a different kind of mystery, while totally sober. I got to experience seeing a new friend turn into an angel, then a demon, then back to human. I did not grow up in a religious background, so it was a mystery why I would see those archetypes. But it wasn't really a mystery, it was rather obvious, that I was seeing the limit of this reality. This reality ends where pain and pleasure ends. It seems to me that this whole reality we are in is based on the opposing poles of pain and pleasure.

Let me speak more about this. I had met this new friend from the shroomery, and every time I spent some time with him my third eye would open a little bit more.  I started having experiences of bliss, terror, unbearable compassion and also strange mystical events. One night I was hanging out at his apartment when we were talking, what we were talking about I don't remember, when he morphed into an angelic being. He did not have a halo or wings but there was a goldish aura around him and he became incredibly serene and beautiful, his eyes full of love.

Next, he transformed again, this time his eyes went completely black, like they had rolled into his head but instead of all white it was all black. His face was like that of a demon, kind of like the girl from the exorcist, very rigid and cold and a spirit starting coming towards me from his face. I was completely terrified and began to scream and then he morphed back into his human self and patted me on the leg and said "it's okay, it's okay."

It was only a few weeks later, after having very strange experiences, which I won't go into totally but suffice to say I was hallucinating (seeing versions of myself standing outside myself) or having a woman become incredibly sexually aroused over the phone which was not my intention it was a phone call about returning to school and she was continually making loud sexual moaning noises, having my family and friends speaking subliminal shit to me like that I was avoiding the light..

a few weeks later I was diagnosed with schizohrenia and they said I had experienced a break from reality.

Now what makes me curious is, if this is really a so called break from reality - is schizophrenia the opposite of that mystery I experienced on mushrooms?

Afterall, psychotic episodes can be blissful at first but then usually become terrified. How to connect these two things?

And what I've thought about is.. maybe schizophrenia is the opposite of mystery - maybe it's the ultimate truth. Maybe ultimate truth is found in schizophrenia. A lot of psychedelic users report experiencing heaven or hell while on a trip. So it could look like this:

Mystery/Schizophrenia = Reality

And then Reality = Pain/Pleasure

So I saw my friend turn into an angel and a demom because that's the limit of reality before you fully enter "schizophrenia" which really just means that it is a kind of answer to the mystery. Then you have the mystery, where you don't fully experience heaven or hell, which is this world. The mystery is a safe place to be like a dream - nothing can seriously happen to you in a dream.

So the biblical god and satan do exist. Now I don't know a lot about the bible. There are schizophrenics who have read the bible thousands of times and have come to understand all kinds of codes and metaphors and insights into the spirit world. I don't know all that. It could be legit or it could be totally wacked out. But sometimes when I smoke weed I'll come to understand that Satan is coming to get me, if not in this world then the next. He is letting me off the hook for now but the longer I delay going to see him for my check-up, the worse I can expect my pain to be.

My understanding of the spiritual world is this:

if you enter the mystery completely, your life here ends. When your life ends, there is most likely a being that reads out all your sins and good deeds, and you will be punished for your sins accordingly. Taking psychedelics gives you a shortcut so you can shave off some of that karma while you are still here. So to pass THROUGH the mystery takes you into reality again. The goal is to stay in the mystery as long as possible because it is safe there.

Also, the spiritual world exists right now and has it's influence over the material world. The collective karma is something that is happening right now and it involves a spirit of darkness spreading through the world until it will either take over completely or be balanced out by good. A lot of schizophrenics know that this world is getting darker, evil in the media and entertainment industry is growing, people live in fear of their leaders and willingly submit, nobody has the heart or courage to fight this growing monster. Culture has become satanic. We live like kings, and eventually even like gods...

The illuminati is proof of this darkness. They are demons let loose in this world and come to end the mystery. The goal is to bring the bible into full realization. They want a real end-days and everyone being marked with the mark of the beast.
Many schizophrenics know this and will experience being followed by illuminati, being attacked psychically and feeling the energy of technology. At the end, if they are sucessful, they will have hell on earth and total darkness.

I don't know what the answer to this problem is, maybe we have to do more psychedelics and research things like orgonite energy and living off the grid, changing society from the inside and destroying the institutions of power we currently uphold with our cooperation for the demons.

I pray that my soul is safe and that your soul is safe as well.


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Edited by EternalCowabunga (06/05/15 09:37 PM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #21767816 - 06/05/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I am contemplating deleting this thread because I am concerned that it may contain bad vibes. Please lend an opinion? :strokebeard:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: EternalCowabunga] * 1
    #21767825 - 06/05/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Very interesting.

Perhaps chemically imbalanced souls -- those with mania, schizophrenia, clinical depression, acute psychosis, etc. -- get taken out of consensus reality (i.e. normal awareness) to a sufficient degree that they are able to see, with their altered perceptions, how truly limited it is and how extraordinary alternative realities can be.  Perhaps this sort of phenomenon is what enables so many of them to have creative gifts and visionary perspectives.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21767870 - 06/05/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Very interesting.

Perhaps chemically imbalanced souls -- those with mania, schizophrenia, clinical depression, acute psychosis, etc. -- get taken out of consensus reality (i.e. normal awareness) to a sufficient degree that they are able to see, with their altered perceptions, how truly limited it is and how extraordinary alternative realities can be.  Perhaps this sort of phenomenon is what enables so many of them to have creative gifts and visionary perspectives.




Here's an alternate view, there's no chemical imbalances

Only bad states of mind

What produces bad states of mind?  spirits/entities

If you have good in your life, you have good spirits in your life
If you have only bad stuff in your life , you have bad spirits in your life

Spirits can possess people and talk through people

(but that's the shaman fairytale, maybe our modern science is right about it all)


Entities can bring people gifts from the other side, because at the other side there are no limits
So often people who are possessed will have great creative ability, be sexurally overactive
With your sexuality you can spread the negative spirits, and with self harm - or negative thoughts

With good actions you can spread positive spirit

All is spirit after all, there is no such thing as bodies or humans or brains

Spirit makes the body

(or so I heard)

What you really need to look at is who you attract into your life, is it good or bad people?
Does it make your life happier?
Do your actions make other people's lives happier?

Else you could have a negative entity attachment

Call them demons, or negative entities - they change people's thoughts
A shaman is nature's psychocoach , not using pills

Almost all entities will bring people to not accept themselves, so they have overactive sexuality to overcompensate, or change clothes to compensate, have very negative thoughts of self harm / anger at others (they project their nonacceptance onto others) etc.

All this could probably be fit to modern psychology, it usually has a modern psychology equivalent that ensures the patient gets a pill ;-)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #21767917 - 06/05/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The Wisdom of Silenus (a fragment from Aristotle):

"They say that Midas, after hunting, asked his captive Silenus somewhat urgently, what was the most desirable thing among humankind. At first he could offer no response, and was obstinately silent. At length, when Midas would not stop plaguing him, he erupted with these words, though very unwillingly: ‘you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature’s excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can."


E.C, it can help to look to nature to find a balance. Off grid living is a good way to go. Maybe after spending time up there you could come out of the mountains into the valley.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #21768340 - 06/06/15 12:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Does this clarify anything? 

"The madman is ... confused. He muddles ego with self, inner with outer, natural and supernatural. Nevertheless, he often can be to us, even through his profound wretchedness and disintegration, the hierophant of the sacred. An exile from the scene of being as we know it, he is an alien, a stranger, signalling to us from the void in which he is foundering. This void may be peopled by presences that we do not even dream of. They used to be called demons and spirits, that were known and named. He has lost his sense of self, his feelings, his place in the world as we know it. He tells us he is dead. But we are distracted from our cozy security by this mad ghost that haunts us with his visions and voices that seem so senseless and of which we feel impelled to rid him, cleanse him, cure him."
R. D. LAING, "Transcendental Experience in Relation to Religion and Psychosis", The Psychedelic Review, 1964

And...

http://laingsociety.org/biblio/transexperience.laing.htm


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21768873 - 06/06/15 03:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Your schizophrenia sounds pretty cool. Mine was just a blurry evil nightmare.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: circastes]
    #21769472 - 06/06/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Muddling ego with self is usually a projection thing

So you project your frustration onto other people

You project your hate onto other people

You project your fear onto other people , now they are demons

You project your lack of selfacceptance onto others, now you think they hate you/won't accept you/talk about you

etc.
And maybe there is more to it


But it seems schizophrenic is maybe more than this


The ego is more than capable of making real world hallucinations, in fact most of society is living in one. When you identify yourself as your thoughts, you're living in an illusion.

The difference is, that some people know they create the illusion of self themselves
and some don't know...

The more thoughts, the more hallucinations it seems , the more fear, the more hallucinations
it amplifies itself

Suddenly death anxiety, people conspiring against you, people are demons, people are envious of your good looks etc.

The ego is the disease of most of humanity, schizophrenic could be an underdeveloped ego of some kind. Not fully satisfied with the self due to unpleasant childhood, so you project, the ego takes control - instead of you controlling it. Now your thoughts control you.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21769554 - 06/06/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And to me projection is very obvious in daily life, we all project, all of our lives

All it takes, is not being satisfied with our own life currently, then we hate on others.

But I also believe there may be a spiritual cause for mental illness , and society's mental illness (because society is not healthy by far) - people are so far from their soul they can hardly remember it.

Why is it rare to be connected to ones soul in our society? (to be in control of thoughts and actions, be joyful)

Only due to stress?  , I definitely believe there could be more causes than that, but stress is a major cause too

Nature always helps..

I have seen so many depressed people hallucinate, due to ego projection, it's more normal than anything to people in that state... and they can't see it before they get healthy again


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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #21769664 - 06/06/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I've read a lot of your posts. I remember you telling those stories and the one where you were at a rave and being pushed around by some force.

if you wanna chat on skype I can tell you a lot of what I think but the long and short is that mental illness is a state of imbalance.

I can tell you more of what I think about the illuminati and what I mean by 'imbalance' but I'd rather chat about it than write it all out


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: yeah]
    #21769729 - 06/06/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

@OP

Schizophrenia has a few similarities but also seems to be opposite in a few ways
The schizophrenic person often becomes careless about themselves, they get obsessed about their fantasy world, they may think all the time

There is nothing wrong with thinking, as long as it is balanced out by action

I don't think we came here just to think, but to actually live

The thing I notice with schizos is the weird thoughts and all the thoughts - thoughts all the time
It can be very unpleasant to be around them , because they got so many thoughts

I often feel bad around them, for some reason

Probably because they got an idea, and then 1min later they got 2 new ideas, and 5 mins later they got an idea for an invention, and 5 mins later they see spirits / hear voices

Schizos have a break with "this reality" it seems
Mystery is a spiritual overlay to this reality, but still grounded in this reality

The schizo often has lost all grounding, all in the head, thoughts all the time

(yes I know it is not too friendly said... dont think it can be said more friendly)

Taking more drugs when ungrounded in reality, would be very unwise...


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: yeah]
    #21771443 - 06/06/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
the long and short is that mental illness is a state of imbalance





This^^ is the truth.  Psychotic mania -- for example -- comes about as a result of an imbalance in certain neurotransmitters.  One gets high on oneself.  We know that now, I don't know why people who have never even come into contact with mental illness keep going on and on about it around these boards like they have a fucking clue.  Now, as to the conscious states it generates, that is quite subjective.  But the generic causes are pretty well established.  yeah is totally right.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21771458 - 06/06/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

yeah said:
the long and short is that mental illness is a state of imbalance





This^^ is the truth.  Psychotic mania -- for example -- comes about as a result of an imbalance in certain neurotransmitters.  One gets high on oneself.  We know that now, I don't know why people who have never even come into contact with mental illness keep going on and on about it around these boards like they have a fucking clue.  Now, as to the conscious states it generates, that is quite subjective.  But the generic causes are pretty well established.  yeah is totally right.




If you know the truth, you know more than any psychiatrist and psychologist today!

They admit they dont know what constitutes mental illness

Mental illness is exactly what you define it to be!

They have no clue really, but they define rules for it - thats the DSM
DSM has been proved over and over to be fake, watch youtube


Does that mean psychologists are quacks? - psychiatrists etc?
Well I suppose they can still help people, but I wouldn't count on their pills for it - since they don't know what mental illness is, you will just get a chemical lobotomy..


You claim you know, but you don't know. Watch "dsm fake" on youtube, proven over and over again.
Nobody does anything about it, because we have no treatment for people with mental illness
So better take "the treatment we got" , even if it means locking them away in asylums like in the old days and electrochock - it will sure help

Then the common man doesn't have to look at them


Chemical imbalances were invented, and you are seemingly perpetuating the lie. There's no evidence for it, it was invented in the DSM to make it look scientific. You can say it "looks like chemical imbalances" but we haven't proved it


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21771472 - 06/06/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Like I said -- have you ever personally had direct experience with mental illness?  A family member?  Yourself?  I've heard from many, many people that prescribed medications have saved their lives.  Are they full of shit too?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: circastes]
    #21771485 - 06/06/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I recommend R.D. Laing for one who sympathized with and understood more than the average sympathetic psychiatrist. You might consider reading The Divided Self wherein Laing 'translates' the otherwise incoherent rantings of a psychotic who is merely demonstrating his indignation at being trotted out in front of a medical ampitheatre as if he was a side-show freak in Kraepelin's writings at the turn of the last century.

There are some good comments here -> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/496585.The_Divided_Self ; and inexpensive copies here -> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0140135375/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_pap_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1433638323&sr=8-1&keywords=the+divided+self%2C+laing ; I didn't see it on-line for free. :shrug:


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21771488 - 06/06/15 06:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

To prove mental illness is about chemical imbalances you would be able to sort all sorts of mental illness just with a pill

But it seems that is not the case, most people do not get cured

So they are just perpetuating a lie, "the chemical imbalances", "the not nurtured in childhood" etc etc.

They got very little clue unfortunately, they are not nowhere near solving mental illness
But at least some psychiatrists will admit to this!

There are also others that think they know all, here's a pill for you


(btw I know maybe 5-7 with mental illness, none of them get cured by pills - mainly schizophrenia and bipolar all of them , none are cured)


But It is certainly tempting to  believe the state knows all, the gov knows all, and we know the mind fully. Very comforting. Unfortunately I cannot trust "science" just for its comfort.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21771521 - 06/06/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah you don't cure an amputated leg, either, you put on a prosthetic.  They are lifelong, genetically induced brain abnormalities.  A cure would be a long way in the future.  For now we have treatments.  Your argument that they are totally worthless to all concerned is patent nonsense.  I have no further interest corresponding with you.  Sometimes in life we have to make compromises.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21771531 - 06/06/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I didn't say they are worthless. But you believe they are GOLD.

Maybe we need much more than pills, like a psychologist? - maybe that is worth 10x more in many cases?

Pills are not everything, that's what I say

You seem to make pills everything, they "cured everyone you know", "they know the truth"

I'm rejecting to that
And I KNOW we don't know the truth of matters. You claimed we know the truth

In other scientific fields they stay a lot more humble than in the "mental illness field" often, because they do not approve their hypothesis if it fails.
Not the case with DSM-IV


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21771537 - 06/06/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What is this bullshit?  You're putting quotes around things I didn't say.  And you're making statements about my views which are false.  Knock it off.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21771566 - 06/06/15 07:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I recommend R.D. Laing for one who sympathized with and understood more than the average sympathetic psychiatrist. You might consider reading The Divided Self wherein Laing 'translates' the otherwise incoherent rantings of a psychotic who is merely demonstrating his indignation at being trotted out in front of a medical ampitheatre as if he was a side-show freak in Kraepelin's writings at the turn of the last century.

There are some good comments here -> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/496585.The_Divided_Self ; and inexpensive copies here -> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0140135375/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_pap_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1433638323&sr=8-1&keywords=the+divided+self%2C+laing ; I didn't see it on-line for free. :shrug:




Psychosis can be very real, and sure it might be partly due to chemical imbalances

We might learn a lot about the mind if we could read a text transcript of a psychotics rantings :-)

But saying it is only chemical imbalances, that's naive - unfortunately our "modern science" is doing just that very often

And then it gets perpetuated in newspapers, take a pill and you get cured

Psychosis is much more complex than that, it is often in conjunction with addiction i.e.

So psychosis could just be daily use of weed with an unstable ego. Taking pills might not do it all if you keep smoking.
With an unstable self you will keep getting psychosis even if you take pills + smoke weed

It could be an unstable ego that projects hallucinations, and unstable ego is about much more than chemicals. Childhood, current life situation, friend situation etc.

It must actually be  hard to see who is psychotic and just on drugs, and who is psychotic or just having a life crisis.

Might try those links later


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21771621 - 06/06/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

@Markus:
If we could just cure everyone with a pill, that pill would make them take a "break from reality" most likely

I see that often, they got no emotions people who are treated - or extremely unstable emotions
Strange thoughts, lots of thoughts (pills give thoughts)

So curing psychosis or schizophrenia must be about much more than just a pill I believe, we need to look at the predispositions - both chemical (inherited DNA) and childhood/life

I haven't seen any good pill yet, pills have side effects. So I don't think we will see a perfect cure for psychosis or schizophrenia in the near future. They will just give another base state of the person - new thoughts

But as long as the new thoughts are "more real"/"acceptable to society" then it's great , then it may help

I think the real benefits come the day our systems learn to work good in cooperation (psychiatry + psychologists). Any mental illness should be refered to a psychologist I think. But there is the problem of the price. Why do they need such a high hourly wage if they say they want to help people?

We got a few people with very high hourly wage, it prevents progression often

Lawyers
Dentists
Psychologists

Our society cant possible pay for both psychologists + psychiatrists, so instead people just get a pill


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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21771676 - 06/06/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yeah you don't cure an amputated leg, either, you put on a prosthetic.  They are lifelong, genetically induced brain abnormalities.  A cure would be a long way in the future.  For now we have treatments.  Your argument that they are totally worthless to all concerned is patent nonsense.  I have no further interest corresponding with you.  Sometimes in life we have to make compromises.



mental illness is mental, not physical.
the cure can only be found by training the mind to get out of psychotic thinking.


I do not believe that the brain control the mind. rather the mind is able to be so fuck top that to literally change the brain functions. psychologist then see that the brain malfunction and believe that the problem is physical when its not: its mental.

the pills we give to mental patients makes them unable to solve their issue. sure, they are less crazy, but as soon as they are off med's, its evident that the pills are not helping because the mental problems comes back. For me, this is no cure, no treatments, its literally a crime against those patients which are not given the best support available.

worst, they are being told lies about their conditions, what they can do to help themselves and also being given pills which in itself limits the work the patients can do because they are always sort of numbed down.

I profoundly am against psychology: they do MUCH more harm then good






My best friend have his two parents with schizophrenia.


Edited by youknowyou (06/06/15 08:29 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: youknowyou]
    #21771925 - 06/06/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You make about four basic errors in your post, but that is neither here nor there.  I did not say, and did not mean to imply, that I think consciousness or mind are epiphenomenal.  They're not.  But on the other hand, it strikes me as rather clear that the brain structures everything that we are as a consciousness.  I hate to say it but there are some here who are beating a dead horse -- many of these issues have been resolved and we are moving forward to find better treatments.  To say a treatment doesn't work because it doesn't cure the disease is bad nonsense too, by the way.  :smile:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21771995 - 06/06/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
You make about four basic errors in your post, but that is neither here nor there.  I did not say, and did not mean to imply, that I think consciousness or mind are epiphenomenal.  They're not.  But on the other hand, it strikes me as rather clear that the brain structures everything that we are as a consciousness.  I hate to say it but there are some here who are beating a dead horse -- many of these issues have been resolved and we are moving forward to find better treatments.  To say a treatment doesn't work because it doesn't cure the disease is bad nonsense too, by the way.  :smile:




Why does it offend you so much , that modern psychiatry has failed?

You seem to be angry at me for saying it, and the other guy.
Very focused on proving your point that it actually works.

But here are 2 people who have seen lots of failed attempts from psychiatry at recovering people. Sure some "look recovered" but in reality they are zombies, no life joy left

They can talk, but they just talk random stuff

My viewpoint:
pills can help, in rare cases, after the person has tried a psychologist
I don't think we should refer (most) people to a psychiatrist first, that's just insane
That's almost treating everything with a pill, because most people seem to get a pill when they get out there

You say we are our brain, sure, people can get a stroke and not function anymore

But maybe we are more than our brains, we can't really know
so pretending to know is futile, we can say our treatments look promising

but we should definitely listen to the critics, why are there so many critics of the modern psychiatric systems?

I rarely hear happy stories, you claim you only hear the opposite of me

Who is right then? - you or me, or both of us?
It's not a miracle cure , miracle system, in fact we're lucky if it cures people or helps people

In some cases it will help people, but doesn't look like it does it in the majority of cases always, depends a lot of the illness (schizophrenia is a bad case i.e. often -  few get cured)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21772028 - 06/06/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The stories I hear

The schizo patient was forced on pills and into hospital even though he didn't want

the cops showed up at his home and kicked his door in

if he doesn't take his medication the cops come at his home again with a straight jacket - they monitor that he regularly picks up his medications

doesn't sound humane at all to me, in fact, forced hospitalization is the most inhumane parts of our modern society it seems

we got lots of breaches of basic human rights in our society, it saddens me
we cannot cure people with force


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Offlineyouknowyou
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21773260 - 06/07/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
You make about four basic errors in your post, but that is neither here nor there.  I did not say, and did not mean to imply, that I think consciousness or mind are epiphenomenal.  They're not.  But on the other hand, it strikes me as rather clear that the brain structures everything that we are as a consciousness.  I hate to say it but there are some here who are beating a dead horse -- many of these issues have been resolved and we are moving forward to find better treatments.  To say a treatment doesn't work because it doesn't cure the disease is bad nonsense too, by the way.  :smile:




any mental problem can be cured. but only if we use the right treatment.


psychology is a lie and the drugs they give makes patients worse or at least, make them totally unable to solve their own problems.
do you know the ''treatment'' they give to mental patients? its opiates, benzo's. have you ever taken those drugs? it makes any user zomby, out of touch, numbed down, I'd even say, they are half dead because they are so drugged up.

do you know how much pills they give to a schizophrenia? they all die at 50 years old because they were given too many drugs.

they dont try to help them, they just try to control the disease. they think the desisease is in the breain, permanenent. this is a lie, metanl disease can be cured, not with pills.


that my honest opinion. you have the right to disagree, but so far, you have not convinced me otherwise.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21775641 - 06/07/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
The stories I hear

The schizo patient was forced on pills and into hospital even though he didn't want

the cops showed up at his home and kicked his door in

if he doesn't take his medication the cops come at his home again with a straight jacket - they monitor that he regularly picks up his medications

doesn't sound humane at all to me, in fact, forced hospitalization is the most inhumane parts of our modern society it seems

we got lots of breaches of basic human rights in our society, it saddens me
we cannot cure people with force




That's exactly how I was treated.

And in the end, it wasn't pills that fixed me. My family and friends think it was the newest pill they gave me but it was really not the pills but a total change in my routine and habits, my diet, my lifestyle etc.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21776773 - 06/07/15 11:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21776889 - 06/08/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17



Very touching.. :smile:


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InvisibleNightShades


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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #21777684 - 06/08/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Bro I'm schizophrenic too. It's not a bad thing. You have to think about it in a positive way. Your friends and family will support you. Music is the best way I channel my mania. Exercise is also good. Everyone is different. Watch out for religion and politics. Stay level-headed, consume, and don't become consumed is my only quote.


Edited by NightShades (06/08/15 08:05 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21778730 - 06/08/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17



Very touching.. :smile:




In certain instances people take refuge in mental illness, or create their illness, like deciding to use opiates and become an addict. Poor judgement. I JUST spoke to an addict on the phone who was pressured to phone me after her mother and her sister had called me. The mother's English wasn't very good so the other daughter phoned me to clarify that I cannot hypnotize the addict to not use dope. Then I spoke to the addict, who, was unclear about whether she was even interested in living a normal life. We had a couple of laughs and I told her to call me if she became self-motivated (vs. family pressured) to make changes in her life.

Granted, mental illness comes unwanted to the majority of people, but then there are those people, even at these forums, who take either life-threatening amounts of chemicals, or dosages so high that they risk HPPD, dissociative disorders, or even psychotic breaks. They talk about "break-throughs" but their actions which speak more loudly and precisely speak to 'break-downs.' "Madness and folly..."


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21778930 - 06/08/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

lessismore said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17



Very touching.. :smile:




In certain instances people take refuge in mental illness, or create their illness, like deciding to use opiates and become an addict. Poor judgement. I JUST spoke to an addict on the phone who was pressured to phone me after her mother and her sister had called me. The mother's English wasn't very good so the other daughter phoned me to clarify that I cannot hypnotize the addict to not use dope. Then I spoke to the addict, who, was unclear about whether she was even interested in living a normal life. We had a couple of laughs and I told her to call me if she became self-motivated (vs. family pressured) to make changes in her life.

Granted, mental illness comes unwanted to the majority of people, but then there are those people, even at these forums, who take either life-threatening amounts of chemicals, or dosages so high that they risk HPPD, dissociative disorders, or even psychotic breaks. They talk about "break-throughs" but their actions which speak more loudly and precisely speak to 'break-downs.' "Madness and folly..."




I guess -any- person who goes to a spiritual teacher or a good psychologist starts with being really non-determined at taking responsibility for their own life.

It seems it is a weakness of our minds, our soul grows when we learn to take responsibility. Even people who are 60 years cannot take responsibility for their lives, and complain about everything in life.

If people could take responsibility there wouldn't be so many people smoking when they were 70, drunk driving etc.

The real problem is that we start with becoming careless about ourselves, and then that gets projected onto others.

And only oneself can heal being careless about oneself... A good psychologist can only give the person hints, but they need to be willing to listen.

So often unlucky breaks in their lives helps the psychologist/healer it seems. Then people are more willing to listen than if they get their whole life for free with no effort.

I have had people tell me I wasn't self motivated, I could definitely not see it at the time, but I see now, I ate pizza every day for 10 years, only drank coke, didnt drink water, smoked cigs and weed too. Was 80lbs overweight suddenly..
But now it is me that tells people they are not self motivated, funny how things can turn. And the worst part is that helping others to heal takes a toll on you each time. Gotta be really grounded when doing that.

We can only heal others/help others heal when we got excess energy, and that only happens when we are really balanced in life. Unfortunately striving to be balanced produces negative results too, so relaxing helps a lot sometimes :-)

It's go with the flow, don't force change the flow.

Trying to help others certainly isn't easy, sometimes too many people can contact us, you probably know that feeling, and none of them are willing to take a responsibility themselves, they have to be taught that.. ;P


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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21781434 - 06/09/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think the anti-psychotics really numb you that much in my experience, in fact they hardly do anything unless you really do have a dopamine imbalance except make tripping into a long afterglow and that's all you get, stimulants are almost blocked completely, I think the numbness associated with schizophrenia patients is from the negative symptoms of the illness itself.


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21781456 - 06/09/15 12:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We don't drill-and-fill our own cavities,or  operate on ourselves, and likewise we can't mirror our own stuff to ourselves. Untrained loved ones usually distort the mirror of consciousness consciously or unconsciously. I endeavor to be objective while remaining compassionate, and provide an increasingly accurate 'Wisdom of the Great Mirror' as my clients grow in their ability to handle such truth. There are no negative effects to achieving balance IMO, and the fee is an intrinsic motivation for taking therapy seriously. I charge a moderate fee, but it is sufficient in my milieu to get people serious about doing their part and anyone who shows up without an intention to pay gets kicked to the curb because (1) they're not serious about changing, and (2) I'm not going to be taken advantage of by deadbeats and rip-offs. Quality results occur from quality treatment and willingness to change for the better.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21781541 - 06/09/15 01:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
We don't drill-and-fill our own cavities,or  operate on ourselves, and likewise we can't mirror our own stuff to ourselves. Untrained loved ones usually distort the mirror of consciousness consciously or unconsciously. I endeavor to be objective while remaining compassionate, and provide an increasingly accurate 'Wisdom of the Great Mirror' as my clients grow in their ability to handle such truth. There are no negative effects to achieving balance IMO, and the fee is an intrinsic motivation for taking therapy seriously. I charge a moderate fee, but it is sufficient in my milieu to get people serious about doing their part and anyone who shows up without an intention to pay gets kicked to the curb because (1) they're not serious about changing, and (2) I'm not going to be taken advantage of by deadbeats and rip-offs. Quality results occur from quality treatment and willingness to change for the better.




I suppose it depends a lot on the clients... I do help people for free regularly and there they are definitely not very motivated

Amazing how a little $ can motivate people ;-)

It can make a difference.

You are not going to grow spiritually without it getting unpleasant, and you are not going to face your dark sides and learn from your mistakes without unpleasantness.

I see how charging a little money could make a difference, I usually charge a little too.. - but not for everyone, sometimes I just feel like I need to help, my email is 'out there' in the most weird places, and sometimes I get contacted :wink:

Can't say no really... it's hard for me, even if 3 contact me each day and ask for free help, I usually reply to most, although usually not same day

Learning to say no is a useful thing too, so I write a few guides I can send to people so I am not necessarily forced to work for free on people who just want a quick solution to their problems. I suppose any good psychologist would teach the client to heal themselves and take responsibility - that can happen with meditation or in a few other ways (acknowledging ones mistakes).

It's not always a good thing with a client coming back, I try to avoid that.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21781589 - 06/09/15 02:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The one that understands that giving is receiving has no problems.

Unfortunately it often seems that we only understand that on a somewhat high spiritual level, we need to grow quite a lot spiritually to really understand that.

If everyone understood that, noone would have any problems

Or if everyone understood that there is no problem, any problem is self perceived

It is easier to be a good example to people if you work with them physically than over email, it can be draining over email.

If you work with them physically you can set up a scheduled time, once a week to take clients i.e. It is much more effective, because then you can be very balanced when you have the client with you

I really have no rules to how I do what I do or what to say, it usually comes to me
I feel their energy/problems

Often it is people around me/my friends' friends that have problems and I try my best to help

Many people in this world got problems, because they have forgotten their soul partly.

Then the question is how to make them remember... I take what comes to me in the situation
It's not like I got a large text book to read from, but when I actually work it feels like something speaks through me usually

Often so much that I have no idea what I just said or where it came from, but it usually seems right afterwards

Meditation in nature always helps me, I often get drained a lot due to many factors
very sensitive to noise where I live, very sensitive to people's energy (even in my family), even my family can drain me totally

It's not always fun to be sensitive, but when you see others become healthier it can be worth it

I have seen my whole family grow spiritually after I had my own awakening, they had lots of problems before, and they still got a few

I got my own problems too :-) , it's amazing that sometimes you cannot heal your own illness but you can still heal others, in fact often you start to help others because you cannot heal your own stuff
You can heal your own soul, but you can't always heal your own health.

A healthy soul is all you need to heal others, nothing more


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InvisibleNightShades


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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21783279 - 06/09/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I take psych meds twice a day. There are patients that have to take meds 16 times a day and they are locked behind steel doors. You have to know yourself to fight the illness. I take meds because my brain doesn't function normally. I believe brain leads to body, then body leads to spirit, and so on. From what I've learned it's like watering a tree. Doctors, therapists, and literature may help, but it won't help if you don't know what it is helping.


--------------------
Break free from your chains, Life works in mysterious ways


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