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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21771621 - 06/06/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

@Markus:
If we could just cure everyone with a pill, that pill would make them take a "break from reality" most likely

I see that often, they got no emotions people who are treated - or extremely unstable emotions
Strange thoughts, lots of thoughts (pills give thoughts)

So curing psychosis or schizophrenia must be about much more than just a pill I believe, we need to look at the predispositions - both chemical (inherited DNA) and childhood/life

I haven't seen any good pill yet, pills have side effects. So I don't think we will see a perfect cure for psychosis or schizophrenia in the near future. They will just give another base state of the person - new thoughts

But as long as the new thoughts are "more real"/"acceptable to society" then it's great , then it may help

I think the real benefits come the day our systems learn to work good in cooperation (psychiatry + psychologists). Any mental illness should be refered to a psychologist I think. But there is the problem of the price. Why do they need such a high hourly wage if they say they want to help people?

We got a few people with very high hourly wage, it prevents progression often

Lawyers
Dentists
Psychologists

Our society cant possible pay for both psychologists + psychiatrists, so instead people just get a pill


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Offlineyouknowyou
Stranger
Registered: 07/27/14
Posts: 247
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21771676 - 06/06/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yeah you don't cure an amputated leg, either, you put on a prosthetic.  They are lifelong, genetically induced brain abnormalities.  A cure would be a long way in the future.  For now we have treatments.  Your argument that they are totally worthless to all concerned is patent nonsense.  I have no further interest corresponding with you.  Sometimes in life we have to make compromises.



mental illness is mental, not physical.
the cure can only be found by training the mind to get out of psychotic thinking.


I do not believe that the brain control the mind. rather the mind is able to be so fuck top that to literally change the brain functions. psychologist then see that the brain malfunction and believe that the problem is physical when its not: its mental.

the pills we give to mental patients makes them unable to solve their issue. sure, they are less crazy, but as soon as they are off med's, its evident that the pills are not helping because the mental problems comes back. For me, this is no cure, no treatments, its literally a crime against those patients which are not given the best support available.

worst, they are being told lies about their conditions, what they can do to help themselves and also being given pills which in itself limits the work the patients can do because they are always sort of numbed down.

I profoundly am against psychology: they do MUCH more harm then good






My best friend have his two parents with schizophrenia.


Edited by youknowyou (06/06/15 08:29 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: youknowyou]
    #21771925 - 06/06/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You make about four basic errors in your post, but that is neither here nor there.  I did not say, and did not mean to imply, that I think consciousness or mind are epiphenomenal.  They're not.  But on the other hand, it strikes me as rather clear that the brain structures everything that we are as a consciousness.  I hate to say it but there are some here who are beating a dead horse -- many of these issues have been resolved and we are moving forward to find better treatments.  To say a treatment doesn't work because it doesn't cure the disease is bad nonsense too, by the way.  :smile:


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21771995 - 06/06/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
You make about four basic errors in your post, but that is neither here nor there.  I did not say, and did not mean to imply, that I think consciousness or mind are epiphenomenal.  They're not.  But on the other hand, it strikes me as rather clear that the brain structures everything that we are as a consciousness.  I hate to say it but there are some here who are beating a dead horse -- many of these issues have been resolved and we are moving forward to find better treatments.  To say a treatment doesn't work because it doesn't cure the disease is bad nonsense too, by the way.  :smile:




Why does it offend you so much , that modern psychiatry has failed?

You seem to be angry at me for saying it, and the other guy.
Very focused on proving your point that it actually works.

But here are 2 people who have seen lots of failed attempts from psychiatry at recovering people. Sure some "look recovered" but in reality they are zombies, no life joy left

They can talk, but they just talk random stuff

My viewpoint:
pills can help, in rare cases, after the person has tried a psychologist
I don't think we should refer (most) people to a psychiatrist first, that's just insane
That's almost treating everything with a pill, because most people seem to get a pill when they get out there

You say we are our brain, sure, people can get a stroke and not function anymore

But maybe we are more than our brains, we can't really know
so pretending to know is futile, we can say our treatments look promising

but we should definitely listen to the critics, why are there so many critics of the modern psychiatric systems?

I rarely hear happy stories, you claim you only hear the opposite of me

Who is right then? - you or me, or both of us?
It's not a miracle cure , miracle system, in fact we're lucky if it cures people or helps people

In some cases it will help people, but doesn't look like it does it in the majority of cases always, depends a lot of the illness (schizophrenia is a bad case i.e. often -  few get cured)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21772028 - 06/06/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The stories I hear

The schizo patient was forced on pills and into hospital even though he didn't want

the cops showed up at his home and kicked his door in

if he doesn't take his medication the cops come at his home again with a straight jacket - they monitor that he regularly picks up his medications

doesn't sound humane at all to me, in fact, forced hospitalization is the most inhumane parts of our modern society it seems

we got lots of breaches of basic human rights in our society, it saddens me
we cannot cure people with force


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Offlineyouknowyou
Stranger
Registered: 07/27/14
Posts: 247
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21773260 - 06/07/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
You make about four basic errors in your post, but that is neither here nor there.  I did not say, and did not mean to imply, that I think consciousness or mind are epiphenomenal.  They're not.  But on the other hand, it strikes me as rather clear that the brain structures everything that we are as a consciousness.  I hate to say it but there are some here who are beating a dead horse -- many of these issues have been resolved and we are moving forward to find better treatments.  To say a treatment doesn't work because it doesn't cure the disease is bad nonsense too, by the way.  :smile:




any mental problem can be cured. but only if we use the right treatment.


psychology is a lie and the drugs they give makes patients worse or at least, make them totally unable to solve their own problems.
do you know the ''treatment'' they give to mental patients? its opiates, benzo's. have you ever taken those drugs? it makes any user zomby, out of touch, numbed down, I'd even say, they are half dead because they are so drugged up.

do you know how much pills they give to a schizophrenia? they all die at 50 years old because they were given too many drugs.

they dont try to help them, they just try to control the disease. they think the desisease is in the breain, permanenent. this is a lie, metanl disease can be cured, not with pills.


that my honest opinion. you have the right to disagree, but so far, you have not convinced me otherwise.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Posts: 7,152
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21775641 - 06/07/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
The stories I hear

The schizo patient was forced on pills and into hospital even though he didn't want

the cops showed up at his home and kicked his door in

if he doesn't take his medication the cops come at his home again with a straight jacket - they monitor that he regularly picks up his medications

doesn't sound humane at all to me, in fact, forced hospitalization is the most inhumane parts of our modern society it seems

we got lots of breaches of basic human rights in our society, it saddens me
we cannot cure people with force




That's exactly how I was treated.

And in the end, it wasn't pills that fixed me. My family and friends think it was the newest pill they gave me but it was really not the pills but a total change in my routine and habits, my diet, my lifestyle etc.


--------------------


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21776773 - 06/07/15 11:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21776889 - 06/08/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17



Very touching.. :smile:


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InvisibleNightShades


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 94
Loc: The Pines Flag
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #21777684 - 06/08/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Bro I'm schizophrenic too. It's not a bad thing. You have to think about it in a positive way. Your friends and family will support you. Music is the best way I channel my mania. Exercise is also good. Everyone is different. Watch out for religion and politics. Stay level-headed, consume, and don't become consumed is my only quote.


Edited by NightShades (06/08/15 08:05 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21778730 - 06/08/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17



Very touching.. :smile:




In certain instances people take refuge in mental illness, or create their illness, like deciding to use opiates and become an addict. Poor judgement. I JUST spoke to an addict on the phone who was pressured to phone me after her mother and her sister had called me. The mother's English wasn't very good so the other daughter phoned me to clarify that I cannot hypnotize the addict to not use dope. Then I spoke to the addict, who, was unclear about whether she was even interested in living a normal life. We had a couple of laughs and I told her to call me if she became self-motivated (vs. family pressured) to make changes in her life.

Granted, mental illness comes unwanted to the majority of people, but then there are those people, even at these forums, who take either life-threatening amounts of chemicals, or dosages so high that they risk HPPD, dissociative disorders, or even psychotic breaks. They talk about "break-throughs" but their actions which speak more loudly and precisely speak to 'break-downs.' "Madness and folly..."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21778930 - 06/08/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

lessismore said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:17



Very touching.. :smile:




In certain instances people take refuge in mental illness, or create their illness, like deciding to use opiates and become an addict. Poor judgement. I JUST spoke to an addict on the phone who was pressured to phone me after her mother and her sister had called me. The mother's English wasn't very good so the other daughter phoned me to clarify that I cannot hypnotize the addict to not use dope. Then I spoke to the addict, who, was unclear about whether she was even interested in living a normal life. We had a couple of laughs and I told her to call me if she became self-motivated (vs. family pressured) to make changes in her life.

Granted, mental illness comes unwanted to the majority of people, but then there are those people, even at these forums, who take either life-threatening amounts of chemicals, or dosages so high that they risk HPPD, dissociative disorders, or even psychotic breaks. They talk about "break-throughs" but their actions which speak more loudly and precisely speak to 'break-downs.' "Madness and folly..."




I guess -any- person who goes to a spiritual teacher or a good psychologist starts with being really non-determined at taking responsibility for their own life.

It seems it is a weakness of our minds, our soul grows when we learn to take responsibility. Even people who are 60 years cannot take responsibility for their lives, and complain about everything in life.

If people could take responsibility there wouldn't be so many people smoking when they were 70, drunk driving etc.

The real problem is that we start with becoming careless about ourselves, and then that gets projected onto others.

And only oneself can heal being careless about oneself... A good psychologist can only give the person hints, but they need to be willing to listen.

So often unlucky breaks in their lives helps the psychologist/healer it seems. Then people are more willing to listen than if they get their whole life for free with no effort.

I have had people tell me I wasn't self motivated, I could definitely not see it at the time, but I see now, I ate pizza every day for 10 years, only drank coke, didnt drink water, smoked cigs and weed too. Was 80lbs overweight suddenly..
But now it is me that tells people they are not self motivated, funny how things can turn. And the worst part is that helping others to heal takes a toll on you each time. Gotta be really grounded when doing that.

We can only heal others/help others heal when we got excess energy, and that only happens when we are really balanced in life. Unfortunately striving to be balanced produces negative results too, so relaxing helps a lot sometimes :-)

It's go with the flow, don't force change the flow.

Trying to help others certainly isn't easy, sometimes too many people can contact us, you probably know that feeling, and none of them are willing to take a responsibility themselves, they have to be taught that.. ;P


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21781434 - 06/09/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think the anti-psychotics really numb you that much in my experience, in fact they hardly do anything unless you really do have a dopamine imbalance except make tripping into a long afterglow and that's all you get, stimulants are almost blocked completely, I think the numbness associated with schizophrenia patients is from the negative symptoms of the illness itself.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21781456 - 06/09/15 12:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We don't drill-and-fill our own cavities,or  operate on ourselves, and likewise we can't mirror our own stuff to ourselves. Untrained loved ones usually distort the mirror of consciousness consciously or unconsciously. I endeavor to be objective while remaining compassionate, and provide an increasingly accurate 'Wisdom of the Great Mirror' as my clients grow in their ability to handle such truth. There are no negative effects to achieving balance IMO, and the fee is an intrinsic motivation for taking therapy seriously. I charge a moderate fee, but it is sufficient in my milieu to get people serious about doing their part and anyone who shows up without an intention to pay gets kicked to the curb because (1) they're not serious about changing, and (2) I'm not going to be taken advantage of by deadbeats and rip-offs. Quality results occur from quality treatment and willingness to change for the better.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21781541 - 06/09/15 01:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
We don't drill-and-fill our own cavities,or  operate on ourselves, and likewise we can't mirror our own stuff to ourselves. Untrained loved ones usually distort the mirror of consciousness consciously or unconsciously. I endeavor to be objective while remaining compassionate, and provide an increasingly accurate 'Wisdom of the Great Mirror' as my clients grow in their ability to handle such truth. There are no negative effects to achieving balance IMO, and the fee is an intrinsic motivation for taking therapy seriously. I charge a moderate fee, but it is sufficient in my milieu to get people serious about doing their part and anyone who shows up without an intention to pay gets kicked to the curb because (1) they're not serious about changing, and (2) I'm not going to be taken advantage of by deadbeats and rip-offs. Quality results occur from quality treatment and willingness to change for the better.




I suppose it depends a lot on the clients... I do help people for free regularly and there they are definitely not very motivated

Amazing how a little $ can motivate people ;-)

It can make a difference.

You are not going to grow spiritually without it getting unpleasant, and you are not going to face your dark sides and learn from your mistakes without unpleasantness.

I see how charging a little money could make a difference, I usually charge a little too.. - but not for everyone, sometimes I just feel like I need to help, my email is 'out there' in the most weird places, and sometimes I get contacted :wink:

Can't say no really... it's hard for me, even if 3 contact me each day and ask for free help, I usually reply to most, although usually not same day

Learning to say no is a useful thing too, so I write a few guides I can send to people so I am not necessarily forced to work for free on people who just want a quick solution to their problems. I suppose any good psychologist would teach the client to heal themselves and take responsibility - that can happen with meditation or in a few other ways (acknowledging ones mistakes).

It's not always a good thing with a client coming back, I try to avoid that.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore]
    #21781589 - 06/09/15 02:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The one that understands that giving is receiving has no problems.

Unfortunately it often seems that we only understand that on a somewhat high spiritual level, we need to grow quite a lot spiritually to really understand that.

If everyone understood that, noone would have any problems

Or if everyone understood that there is no problem, any problem is self perceived

It is easier to be a good example to people if you work with them physically than over email, it can be draining over email.

If you work with them physically you can set up a scheduled time, once a week to take clients i.e. It is much more effective, because then you can be very balanced when you have the client with you

I really have no rules to how I do what I do or what to say, it usually comes to me
I feel their energy/problems

Often it is people around me/my friends' friends that have problems and I try my best to help

Many people in this world got problems, because they have forgotten their soul partly.

Then the question is how to make them remember... I take what comes to me in the situation
It's not like I got a large text book to read from, but when I actually work it feels like something speaks through me usually

Often so much that I have no idea what I just said or where it came from, but it usually seems right afterwards

Meditation in nature always helps me, I often get drained a lot due to many factors
very sensitive to noise where I live, very sensitive to people's energy (even in my family), even my family can drain me totally

It's not always fun to be sensitive, but when you see others become healthier it can be worth it

I have seen my whole family grow spiritually after I had my own awakening, they had lots of problems before, and they still got a few

I got my own problems too :-) , it's amazing that sometimes you cannot heal your own illness but you can still heal others, in fact often you start to help others because you cannot heal your own stuff
You can heal your own soul, but you can't always heal your own health.

A healthy soul is all you need to heal others, nothing more


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InvisibleNightShades


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 94
Loc: The Pines Flag
Re: I am schizophrenic and this makes little sense [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21783279 - 06/09/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I take psych meds twice a day. There are patients that have to take meds 16 times a day and they are locked behind steel doors. You have to know yourself to fight the illness. I take meds because my brain doesn't function normally. I believe brain leads to body, then body leads to spirit, and so on. From what I've learned it's like watering a tree. Doctors, therapists, and literature may help, but it won't help if you don't know what it is helping.


--------------------
Break free from your chains, Life works in mysterious ways


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