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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
US Saddam Hypocrisy
    #2176746 - 12/14/03 02:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"Well we have finally captured that brutal dictator that killed untold numbers of Iraqis."

Naturally, let us ALL overlook the fact that Reagan and Bush senior supported Saddam in the early 1980s, knowing full well the level of his atrocities, while giving financial and military suport to him, including illegal biological weapons, to fight the Iranians.

Also worthy of note, but conveniently forgotten, was that Baby Bush NEVER once spoke of the "Iraqi people" before the illegal War on Iraq. It was only AFTER the WOMD were NOT found that the rhethoric quickly changed. Even though some 5,000 to 15,000 Iraqi citizens were killed in the war, they may rest easy as they died out of our concern for well-being.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
    #2176758 - 12/14/03 02:34 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I knew this had to be eating you alive!

:lol:

Truly hysterical!

What would you do, pardon him?

:lol:


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: ]
    #2176771 - 12/14/03 02:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Why should their hypocrisy have anything to do with the fate of Saddam, Mr.Mushrooms? Flawed logic.

It should possibly have an effect on the fate of people who have previously supported his bloody regime. But that's not how the world works.


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"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: ]
    #2176793 - 12/14/03 02:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The 1984 public U.S. condemnation of chemical weapons use in the Iran-Iraq war, which said, referring to the Ayatollah Khomeini's refusal to agree to end hostilities until Saddam Hussein was ejected from power, "The United States finds the present Iranian regime's intransigent refusal to deviate from its avowed objective of eliminating the legitimate government of neighboring Iraq to be inconsistent with the accepted norms of behavior among nations and the moral and religious basis which it claims."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
    #2176806 - 12/14/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Swami writes:

Naturally, let us ALL overlook the fact that Reagan and Bush senior supported Saddam in the early 1980s, knowing full well the level of his atrocities...

So because the US once gave him intelligence info while he was at war with a US enemy, they must support him for all time?

...while giving financial and military suport to him...

How many other countries bought Iraqi oil? What military support do you mean, other than leaking satellite info re Iranian troop dispositions with him?

...including illegal biological weapons...

Sorry... anthrax cultures are not considered biological weapons.

... to fight the Iranians.

These would be the same Iranians who held American hostages for how many hundred days. The same Iranians chanting "Death to the Great Satan" at the drop of a turban.

Also worthy of note, but conveniently forgotten, was that Baby Bush NEVER once spoke of the "Iraqi people"...

Completely and totally incorrect. Bush's speeches are a matter of public record. They can be found at the White House web site if nowhere else. In every speech on the topic Bush mentioned all of Hussein's violations of the 1991 conditional ceasefire agreement, including his treatment of those unfortunate enough to be living within Iraq's borders.

...before the illegal War on Iraq.

In what court has it been decided that resumption of military hostilities was illegal? Since when has it been declared illegal to resume fire after all the conditions of a provisional ceasefire have been ignored?

It was only AFTER the WOMD were NOT found that the rhethoric quickly changed.

Incorrect. See above.

Even though some 5,000 to 15,000 Iraqi citizens were killed in the war...

Incorrect. The most pessimistic figures, which do not differentiate between civilians and combatants not in proper uniform at the time of their death, are in the 6,000 to 9,000 range. They also count civilians killed by Ba'athist cadres shooting civilians for "desertion" or "non-co-operation".

Compare this to the most conservative prewar estimate of 300,000 civilians killed by Hussein's thugs, which is now considered to be a gross underestimate. Human rights groups are revising that figure upwards almost weekly with the discovery of new mass graves. The range now is considered to be 600,000 to possibly as much as a million.

If Hussein had remained in power, how long would it have taken him to torture and kill another 10,000?

Swami, all of the points you raised just now have been thoroughly discussed in this forum in the last year. You are so far behind the curve on the realities of the things you talk about it is embarassing to have to read them.

Get a fact checker before your next post, or wait till the search feature is working here again and spend a few hours checking the numerous links which have been posted here refuting your assertions.

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Phred]
    #2176823 - 12/14/03 03:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

While Saddam was attempting genocide on the Kurds for decades, the US never once spoke out publicly against Hussein.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
    #2177037 - 12/14/03 04:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

And if we did people would say we were in it for the oil.

Nice when you can't win either way, isn't it?


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: ]
    #2177123 - 12/14/03 05:14 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I remember being taught it wasn't whether you win or lose but rather how you play the game.
Forgive me my old fashioned thinking :wink:
WR:rasta:


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To old for this place


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: ]
    #2177168 - 12/14/03 05:29 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nice when you can't win either way, isn't it?

it's what happens when you play both sides...


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: ]
    #2177174 - 12/14/03 05:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
And if we did people would say we were in it for the oil.

Nice when you can't win either way, isn't it?




Exactly. Anything that the Bush administration does is seen as wrong, we are either being lenient to a dictator that we support, or we are overthrowing a kindly old gentleman so our EvilBushCo can steal his oil.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2177216 - 12/14/03 05:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There is always a middle ground...The argument assumes that the United States has some form of duty to overthrow this government. In the end, we captured an old man. Someone who used to do terrible things. Someone who no longer posed a threat to anyone. When I look at the pictures of him, all I see is someone who lost everything. His country, his sons, and his freedom.

Is the world a safer place for it? Is the United States safer for it? Who knows...I somehow doubt it...What is certain is that Bush's political aspirations are safer because of it..


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Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"

akira_akuma said, "fuck the freedom to speech, it's all crap"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Enlil]
    #2177249 - 12/14/03 05:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'd bet the Iraqi people feel safer.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2177275 - 12/14/03 06:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know if the iraqi people feel safer or not. I would like to believe that it is true...it would make the war more paletable to me...but I have a hard time believing it. If we were occupied by another country's army, I would not feel all that safe...It is one piece of information I really wish that I had, but alas...all of my info comes from a media that I cannot trust.


--------------------
Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"

akira_akuma said, "fuck the freedom to speech, it's all crap"


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2177314 - 12/14/03 06:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'd bet the Iraqi people feel safer.




Most Iraqis now see that Spider man couldn't have came back to power anyway.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Enlil]
    #2177318 - 12/14/03 06:38 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Um, pinksharkmark, I've heard estimates well in excess of 9,000.  In fact, Swami just gave us one and I'm sure he has some sort of source for that.  And you can't deny the illegality of that war and various other activities of the United States recently.  I take that back, you can.  But it shows how weak a grasp of international law you have.  You CANNOT invade a nation that isn't posing a direct threat towards you without violating international law.  And Hussein hasn't been shown to be the cause of a single american on american soil.

Goodness, I never thought I'd be on the same side of an argument as Swami.  It feels so wierd...  :confused:

And if you've seen those pictures of the Communist Party celebrating in the streets, don't worry, that's not the real Communist Party.  There was a fairly serious schism in the party when the offical leadership bent knee to yankee imperialism.


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Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Zahid]
    #2177323 - 12/14/03 06:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There is no way of knowing if he could have come back or not.

Doesn't change the fact that the Iraqis probably feel safer today then yesterday.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2177353 - 12/14/03 06:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If he could have came back, you could have came back. Anyone could have came back. (not literally, but you get my drift)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: Zahid]
    #2177378 - 12/14/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

And as long as the possibility of a come-back existed, there was fear.

Now that the possibility seems gone, there is less fear. Or so any rational person would think.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2177426 - 12/14/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

But you are making the assumption that people were more afraid of saddam than they are of the united states army. I don't know if that is true. It seems like it would be pretty scary to know that foreign soldiers are walking down the streets with automatic rifles. It would scare me enough if United states soldiers were walking down my street, and I share a language, nationality, and homeland with them.


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Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"

akira_akuma said, "fuck the freedom to speech, it's all crap"


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
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Re: US Saddam Hypocrisy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2177446 - 12/14/03 07:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Frankly, making the assertion that Iraqis are able to sleep easier tonight is making the assumption that the Iraqi people are imbeciles who permanently identify with the reign of Hussein. There are alot of Iraqis who would rather see the stability of Saddam's government than the chaos of the occupying Coalition Forces.


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