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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Atomik Nuke
    #2176649 - 12/14/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

We live in an age of over-flowing garbage, spuel from the undergrowth of our over-consumption spilling into the streets. An age where man and ape are only seperated by 01101010.

Cars run rabid in the streets killing our children and fueling wars with fuel that burns its black smoke in our streets.

The ghetto runs slick with the black tar of crack smoked chemicals.

Babies lay dead in the mud of war and hatred

why? why CANT we understand that we are all one? Such a simple solution, we just have to realize we are all the same and embrace each other!

My question, if the solution to our problems is such a BASIC truth, if it so easy, then why isnt it in effect? it seems something so obvious would have to come into effect, yes? what are the mechanics of truth? isnt truth unavoidable?

if our ability to attain a utopia was TRUTH, then why is it non-existent? isnt truth that which exists? so maybe...maybe it aint truth.

dungeons and dragons - ewoks - droids - fantastic four - mask - ninja turtles - robin hood - scoobie doo - smurfs.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: Positronius]
    #2176880 - 12/14/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think there is one basic truth, and that is that there are no other basic truths. There is no meaning, there is no good or evil.

Because of our social conditioning, it is impossible to fully realise this, or to live by this truth. Society is a construct which have been hugely successful in furthering our growth as a species. Just as humans have evolved, the meme of society have evolved and have developed defense mechanisms. Layers upon layers of self deceit is what keeps the human race going strong.

Organised religion is the ultimate defense against the basic truth.

This is what the mushroom told me.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: muhurgle]
    #2176884 - 12/14/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

self-deceit? how so?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: Positronius]
    #2176915 - 12/14/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Here are some examples:

- Humans are special, we are not animals.
- Altruism is possible.
- There exists absolute morals.
- Law is based on these morals
- When we die, that is not the end, therefore we must follow laws.
- There exists a final meaning.
- We can find this meaning.
- Therefore we must develop society, enabling it to find the meaning.

These are all excellent concepts which we need to have an efficient society. But they are not based on any absolute truth, they are the self deceits that our species needs to prosper. Society is a self reinforcing mechanism.

Most would not agree with me and base their conclusions on religion or other shaky ground. This is the self defense mechanism that I talk about.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: muhurgle]
    #2176930 - 12/14/03 03:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

mmmm I disagree, I dont think that purpose of society is to find a greater meaning. I think the purpose of society, at least modern capitalist canadian society, is to allow the individual the ability to lead a happy life.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: Positronius]
    #2176959 - 12/14/03 04:07 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, of course, this is just one of many. There is no need to agree on the exact reason that we need a society. Btw, I'm using society in a very broad sense here, not restricting it to exactly what we think a society is right now and right here.

The utilitarian hedonistic approach is, in my opinion, yet another form of self deceit. We find no other meaning, so the meaning must be to achieve maximum happiness, and since we live in a society the society must try to maximize total happiness.

But what is happiness other than some chemical state of our brains? The hedonistic society is trying to maximize the dopamine release in the population. This doesn't bring us any further to any basic truth, but it does further society.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: muhurgle]
    #2176971 - 12/14/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

well, maybe happiness wasnt such a great word to use - I think modern non-secular capitalism allows the individual the freedom to create his/her own little world within a broader world. This world can be conducive to happiness, or it might not, but it is a world of his/her own creation where he/she can find whatever meaning they want in life.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: Positronius]
    #2177002 - 12/14/03 04:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, but this meaning is still confined within the bounds of society, or within whatever you have been taught.

When I say society, I'm not talking so much about how decisions are being made democraticly or otherwise, etc. Maybe soceity it isn't the right word either. I'm talking about our basic understanding of moral, ethics, life, etc. And upon these society is built. And we have been taught not to question the very things that society is built upon, because that wouldn't really be productive for our species.

So most people find truth within the bounds that are already set. And the truths they find reinforce the basic truths of society, but these truths have got nothing to do with the basic truth that you started talking about. I believe that these basic truths, whatever they are, lie beneath and that if we are goning to be able to find them we must first do away with the truths that we are taught by social conditioning.

This process is painful, because it means losing a lot of what we are. And this is again the self defense mechanism I'm talking about. We don't give up these truths easily, because if we did we would erode the very basis that our society is built upon.

When I do this, I end up with nothing. Others might find something else, and I really do hope that there is something else (but that's just the self defense mechanism talking again).


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Offlinemydisplayname
i am
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Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 119
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Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: muhurgle]
    #2177204 - 12/14/03 05:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think there is one basic truth, and that is that there are no other basic truths. "
This first sentance of youres you base all youre thoery on doese not make any sence.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: mydisplayname]
    #2177207 - 12/14/03 05:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

wow, you can say "does not make any sense"

but do you present an argument that supports your brash claim>?

no you dont, please...dont post such nonsense in one of my threads, I try to keep them classy.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: mydisplayname]
    #2177240 - 12/14/03 05:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well, if I had said 'There are no truths.', that would be a truth, and I would be lying. This is the paradox of nihilism.

I cleverly dodged this by saying that there is only one truth :smile:

If you like, you could say there might be truths, but they are not accessible to us. To me, this seems to be the same thing.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: muhurgle]
    #2177296 - 12/14/03 06:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)


“There are no truths- the only truth is that there are no truths.”

That is a contradiction in terms.

Subjectivity is a nagging possibility, just as improbable as our objectivity- that you believe is somehow less valid than your perceived belief that all is subjective. You cannot prove that there are no objective truths, so how did subjectivity all of the sudden become accepted as fact? Isn’t subjectivity just as invalid as objectivity?

The validity of subjectivity is based on the logic that people see things different ways, but that does not indicate that there is not a right or wrong way. Saying, “what if some people saw it this way,” or ”but these people did it like this,” has been taken to mean that there is more than one truth. Fine. However, that still means there are truths. Perhaps the question is: Why are our objective truths so different?

From there is where society and social conditioning come into play.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2177324 - 12/14/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I do see the logical fallacy of 'no truths'.

However I don't see why you have to accept that there are truths either. If truth is only a human concept, then I agree. There are truths. But if by truth you mean something that can exist outside the human mind, then I'm not so sure.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Offlinemydisplayname
i am
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 119
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: muhurgle]
    #2177554 - 12/14/03 08:37 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"wow, you can say "does not make any sense"

but do you present an argument that supports your brash claim>?

no you dont, please...dont post such nonsense in one of my threads, I try to keep them classy" fag boy are you the official shroomery comedian?you ask me if i have an arguement ,then know my answer?read the fucking sentance it doesnt make sence.I wouldnt jack off on this piece of shit thread dickhead.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: mydisplayname]
    #2177605 - 12/14/03 09:05 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

fagboy? holy shit, what is this? grade 9?


come on man, thats a little harsh dont you think? I was just trying to encourage you to post a decent attack, and not some nickle-and-dime attempt at discussion.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinebumski
cattle russler

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 83
Last seen: 12 years, 18 days
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: mydisplayname]
    #2177660 - 12/14/03 09:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mydisplayname said:
"wow, you can say "does not make any sense"

but do you present an argument that supports your brash claim>?

no you dont, please...dont post such nonsense in one of my threads, I try to keep them classy" fag boy are you the official shroomery comedian?you ask me if i have an arguement ,then know my answer?read the fucking sentance it doesnt make sence.I wouldnt jack off on this piece of shit thread dickhead.




[slopism] O Great and Holy Mods, please banish this thy member so that we might not read of him again. This I ask in the name of The Shroomery, your kingdom of the most high. [/slopism]


--------------------
Cheech: Hey man, the house is bein' raided man! opsCays! You hear me man? get-outski!


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Invisibleblackroselove
Stranger
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 6,205
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: Positronius]
    #2178370 - 12/15/03 02:38 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Because war makes money and power. We are not that advanced to get along like that. I mean. We can all think that we should. But it won't happen We don't know how. And we have governments and such to stop us. Because like I said before. War is money and power.

Just thoughts'
BRL.


--------------------
BlackieRL:flaming:
BRL:flaming:


Edited by blackroselove (12/15/03 02:41 AM)


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: blackroselove]
    #2179182 - 12/15/03 11:59 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i dont really see how that pertains to the topic.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Invisibleblackroselove
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 6,205
Re: Atomik Nuke [Re: Positronius]
    #2179225 - 12/15/03 12:25 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

****why? why CANT we understand that we are all one? Such a simple solution, we just have to realize we are all the same and embrace each other! ****

-Positronius


Just thoughts but none of mine
BRL.


--------------------
BlackieRL:flaming:
BRL:flaming:


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