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Binarls
Stranger
Registered: 06/05/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions
#21765536 - 06/05/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello everyone,
First timer here! I started a batch of PF cakes from the method in L.G. Nicholas & Kerry Ogame's book. Then I found the tek thread here and have followed it from birthing to fruiting in a SFGC. Here's the setup:

They are on day 10 in the SFGC. I had one cake already yield a 13g healthy fruit before any of the others started fruiting. This was despite ignorantly placing them in direct sunlight for ~3 hours a day for the first 4 days.
I mist 3x a day and fan 5x a day, but I'm not really sure how much to be misting. Approximately 2 sprays per cake right now, which leave a small amount of water perpetually sitting on the aluminum foil. The cakes seem to be evaporating though.
Several of my cakes started pinning in the jars, but they fell off during the rinse and dunking process, and have been slow to resume pinning, if at all. In the first picture, the left front and right front cakes that have little guys on them were ones that pinned in the jars, but they're each on day 4 of growth with slim progress and no other pins on the cakes.
My largest growth has a mushroom with a cleft head. I'm wondering what causes this, and if it is a problem.

A couple more questions... 1. Is it worth taking a spore print from this cake to use for my next try? 2. If a cake fruits only one mushroom, should I consider that a flush, regardless of size, and dunk it again?
Thanks for reading!
P.S. I will be using the proper jar size next time.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: Binarls]
#21765883 - 06/05/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi and welcome:
- Your setup looks good. Be sure to follow EM's tek to a tee and give your cakes enough light (not direct sunlight).
- Nobody can tell you how much misting you need. Just be sure to mist and fan at least 3 times a day and you'll be fine.
- You can take a print from that cake and it will be a completely normal print (the mushroom you ask about is a mutant. It happens quite often. It is good to eat btw).
- Most of the times your mycelium will grow well-defined flushes. Sometimes though it'll just sprout pins here and there. Nothing to worry about.
Good luck
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: LeopardMan]
#21766272 - 06/05/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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direct sunlight is fine if your cakes don't dry out but most people are not moving their cakes outside, so you get light from a window which is fine but using a dedicated grow light is better in my opinion(cubes grow outdoors in texas and flordia in the middle of fields, they love them some sun they'll fruit on 90F days with no clouds)
some people have to mist less than 3 times a day depending on their own conditions and how heavily they mist when they do mist.
most grows from spore syringes don't have well defined flushes. there's easily 10-1000 strains in a pf cake if made with spores. clones and isolates have much better defined flushes on the average.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21766381 - 06/05/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Direct sunlight is useful only if cakes are particularly stubborn and do not pin (btw this is a RR's advice, as I am sure you already know).
OP is a first time grower. Telling him that direct sunlight is fine is misleading at best.
If your SGFC is properly built, misting and fanning 3 times a day is just perfect.
Most flushes from spores are well-defined when doing cakes, believe me. Trays or tubs, that's another story.
Please don't just chime in to split hairs. I am trying to help a new grower here.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: LeopardMan]
#21766415 - 06/05/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'll chime in when I want. don't chime in to be .
noob or not I say it like it is. He's not going to go put his FC out in the sun. if you go outside to drink a beer and take your substrate with you and a spray bottle, the direct sunlight wont hurt at all you could just mist away all day. if you fall asleep it's a problem.
you ever take your subs out in the sun? I do. I do a lot of fruiting open air these days and outside is even better than being inside even if only for an hour in my opinion. don't speak unless you speak from experience... you've burned up some trays outside lets see some devastating results.
I'm here to help too, take a look at my ratings, like yours we're obviously both here to help. Hopefully as a TC you know that other people have other experiences and opinions. but for a fact direct sunlight is only harmful if you're a dumbass about it. as a matter of opinion whether to do it or not they're both right and noob or not everyones entitled to any advice and whether or not they want to find that advice worth something or not.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21766466 - 06/05/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I'll chime in when I want. don't chime in to be .
noob or not I say it like it is. He's not going to go put his FC out in the sun. if you go outside to drink a beer and take your substrate with you and a spray bottle, the direct sunlight wont hurt at all you could just mist away all day. if you fall asleep it's a problem.
you ever take your subs out in the sun? I do. I do a lot of fruiting open air these days and outside is even better than being inside even if only for an hour in my opinion. don't speak unless you speak from experience... you've burned up some trays outside lets see some devastating results.
I had forgotten how nice people can be on these boards.
Anything, rain, direct sunlight, hot temparatures, low RH, literally anything is "fine" for a few minutes or for an hour. That doesn't mean that it's ideal.
Did you notice that tag under my name? That tag is there to let people know that I am speaking from experience
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: LeopardMan]
#21766474 - 06/05/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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RR used to pull shit out of his ass and he made that tag.
all that tag means is you're not trying to fuck over noobs with what you say. and I know you're not. but you need to know that things are not set in stone. My experience directly contradicts some of that sentiment, things I've learned from other TCs as well
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21766524 - 06/05/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: RR used to pull shit out of his ass and he made that tag.
This is the kind of shit that makes me depressed. A man who is a legend, a man who taught MC to everybody on these boards (even your TCs) is being insulted by a Mr. Nobody.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21766526 - 06/05/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: filthyknees]
#21766923 - 06/05/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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And if I had the TC tag too which I need the 3rd year anniversary for? You should have stayed away. All the other active TCs shame you in class dude. Even ham is twice as classy as you. The boards are finally starting to heal from the over abundance of these egos floating around.
Marc is the one who told us he came up with shit just to try to steer noobs well. I don't just say shit to help noobs. I never suggested he put the fucker in direct sunlight since I know he is t a well rounded cultivator I only said something about your bullshit blanket statement end all be all. Its good for more than prolonged times have you ever seen an outdoor grow ffs?
and furthermore RR(marc) has a plethora of quotes about direct sunlight anyway, in MC about cubes not GM&M about oysters and other things
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Sunlight this time of year when the sun is lower on the horizon is just fine. If it's being diffused by a window and by a fruiting chamber, it's not really direct sunlight. As long as the tub isn't heating up excessively inside, it's fine. The sunlight won't damage the mycelium. It's a good pinning trigger, but obviously not the biggest one. You still need lots of fresh air, and misting to replace the lost moisture.
My biggest and best performing substrates right now are the ones outdoors in direct sun most of the day. Obviously, someone in a hot climate won't put substrates outdoors in direct sun, but if your outdoor temperatures are cool, then it's great. RR
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13258575#13258575
and 100s more about the advantages of even just a few minutes if you can let alone more time out there.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (06/05/15 06:24 PM)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21767069 - 06/05/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
And if I had the TC tag too which I need the 3rd year anniversary for? You should have stayed away. All the other active TCs shame you in class dude. Even ham is twice as classy as you. The boards are finally starting to heal from the over abundance of these egos floating around.
Marc is the one who told us he came up with shit just to try to steer noobs well. I don't just say shit to help noobs. I never suggested he put the fucker in direct sunlight since I know he is t a well rounded cultivator I only said something about your bullshit blanket statement end all be all. Its good for more than prolonged times have you ever seen an outdoor grow ffs?
Isn't this sad? RR taught us most of things we know. He took online MC forums to the next level. He shared his knowledge with us, gave solid advice for more than 12 years, created a DVD which is still the MC bible for every new grower, grew mushrooms out of a physical bible. And now that life hit him hard, here comes an anonymous Bodhisatta who starts insulting him while calling him Marc like he is one of his buddies.
I am going to bed. Life is a bitch.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: LeopardMan]
#21767089 - 06/05/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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nice straw man. I never said anything bad about his accomplishments. RR is RR. he's responsible for some of the best, and most widely used for commercial farm, edible cultures on the planet. I may not be well known to you but things have been pretty swell around here the last two years. more pompous dicks that know everything and have the authority to have the last say on something are exactly what we don't need.
Quote:
yes too much light is a bad thing. this is why we dont use direct sunlight.
Not so. There is no such thing as too much light, only too much heat. It's possible to have more/brighter light than required, but in that case it's just wasted, not bad for the grow. And, we do use direct sunlight. I've recommended forever to place tubs or substrates in direct sunlight for a few minutes each day to stimulate a killer pinset.
If mushrooms didn't need light and lots of it, they wouldn't grow in the middle of pastures, and they would grow in caves, which they don't. RR
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (06/05/15 06:41 PM)
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21767579 - 06/05/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
If mushrooms didn't need light and lots of it, they wouldn't grow in the middle of pastures, and they would grow in caves, which they don't. RR
This is exceedingly poor logic by the way. Cows don't poop in caves, they poop in the fields. It doesn't prove or disprove the idea that they need lots of sunlight.
Correlation_does_not_imply_causation.
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Binarls
Stranger
Registered: 06/05/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: Binarls]
#21768080 - 06/05/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wellp, I think I got some good advice, and I'm less anxious about being a shroomdad now. Offtopic is offtopic though, mates. Should've guessed that material which is declared as the fool-proof rules for success would be a bit politicized. 
At my stage of development in this process, just following one person's instructions is part of the challenge. My OP was to make sure that the steps I'm taking aren't a. contaminating the crop b. drastically missing temperature/humidity/fae targets c. mis-executing critical steps in the tek
Bodhisatta, thanks for making me aware that sunlight is one of the more negotiable steps for growth optimization. With a few successes under my belt, I'm sure I'll experiment with variations in lighting.
Edited by Binarls (06/05/15 10:51 PM)
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meowshroom
EnergyPermeation

Registered: 04/28/15
Posts: 158
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: Binarls]
#21768281 - 06/05/15 11:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It is fair to say that, yes, they grow on dung in pastures. It is also fair to say that due to tall grass, they get some insulation from heat and direct sun.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: meowshroom]
#21769651 - 06/06/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You won't contaminate a crop. In the jars everything is sterile at full colonization when you birth the cakes are very contamination resistant. So much so you can handle them with bare hands and put them in a fruiting chamber with a bunch of holes.
65-75 is a great temp range for everything we do with cubensis. Most of my grows were done from 62-68
Have the TEK printed off.
The first few links in my signature should really help.
The noob forums has a recommend TEK list some of the TCs put together with all of the most up to date, time tested, TEKs
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meowshroom
EnergyPermeation

Registered: 04/28/15
Posts: 158
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21770917 - 06/06/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: You won't contaminate a crop. In the jars everything is sterile at full colonization when you birth the cakes are very contamination resistant. So much so you can handle them with bare hands and put them in a fruiting chamber with a bunch of holes.
65-75 is a great temp range for everything we do with cubensis. Most of my grows were done from 62-68
Have the TEK printed off.
The first few links in my signature should really help.
The noob forums has a recommend TEK list some of the TCs put together with all of the most up to date, time tested, TEKs
^^
everything said there, except temp has been a solid 74. And doing just fine... and with poor FAE.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21772880 - 06/07/15 05:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: You won't contaminate a crop. In the jars everything is sterile at full colonization
I won't answer your previous posts cause it's pretty obvious to me that you don't know what you are talking about. But this 
I suggest you to look up what the word sterile means. Nothing is sterile inside a jar at full colonization. The reason why a jar at full col won't be contaminated when handled with bare hands is that the mycelium is strong enough to protect itself from bacteria.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: LeopardMan]
#21773069 - 06/07/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Edited by invitro (06/07/15 07:53 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: invitro]
#21773122 - 06/07/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don't quote out of context the very next sentence. OMC defines sterile very different than a microbiology textbook.
I have a few posts on the finer details of pasteurization (and PUs), sanitization, and sterilization and what it really means for us in terms of log reduction value.
If a jar gets to 100% OMC refers to the jar as having been sufficiently sterile as to get you mycelium to 100% sure you could have another mold or bacteria in there but we're assuming the cakes are free of contamination. Thus "birth the cakes are very contamination resistant."
They've already been contaminated with cubensis rot. They're not sterile by definition after inoculation that's obvious. OMC makes distinctions to the lexicon of biology terms to jam them into working with amateur boomer cultivation
semantic vs scientific definitions, they're what makes this place work a little better in practice.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (06/07/15 09:06 AM)
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21773614 - 06/07/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I knew what you meant Bod, and so did uhh everyone else?
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21774110 - 06/07/15 01:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Don't quote out of context the very next sentence. OMC defines sterile very different than a microbiology textbook.
I have a few posts on the finer details of pasteurization (and PUs), sanitization, and sterilization and what it really means for us in terms of log reduction value.
If a jar gets to 100% OMC refers to the jar as having been sufficiently sterile as to get you mycelium to 100% sure you could have another mold or bacteria in there but we're assuming the cakes are free of contamination. Thus "birth the cakes are very contamination resistant."
They've already been contaminated with cubensis rot. They're not sterile by definition after inoculation that's obvious. OMC makes distinctions to the lexicon of biology terms to jam them into working with amateur boomer cultivation
semantic vs scientific definitions, they're what makes this place work a little better in practice.
Sterile means sterile. A jar at full colonization is not sterile, There is a mycelium and there are bacteria and possibly mold spores as well. It's just wrong man, no need to argue that black is white and bring some friends to help you. Also, care to explain what "log reduction value" is? I need to update my dictionary.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: LeopardMan]
#21774282 - 06/07/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Autoclave software aims for SAL sterility assurance level. If you say have a load for your autoclave and its harboring 1mil CFU before sterilization. Then you need a 6 log reduction to theoretically 0 CFU survived. That's not sterile though. You sterilize to an additional six log to achieve 10^-6 chance of one CFU in each media in your autoclave load. We don't know our original contaminant load but more than 12 total log reduction in CFU is at minimum the aim of sterilization for mycological purpose.
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21774694 - 06/07/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Everyone on these boards say they are "sterilizing" their jars, it's the lingo we use. We know they aren't truly sterile. To suggest that Bod didn't know what the dictionary definition of sterile means is ridiculous. It's you who are out of step with the way people talk around here. We also say a quart of grain spawn when we usually mean less than a quart. We also say trich, when we see green mold, even though it could be another type. If you don't like the way we use the english language around here well start a petition or something to change it, but going after Bod about our vernacular is lame.
I'm not biased toward or against Bod by the way, I butt heads with him almost daily it seems. When I see something way out of line I tend to correct it, it's that simple.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: invitro]
#21774713 - 06/07/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: Everyone on these boards say they are "sterilizing" their jars, it's the lingo we use. We know they aren't truly sterile. To suggest that Bod didn't know what the dictionary definition of sterile means is ridiculous. It's you who are out of step with the way people talk around here. We also say a quart of grain spawn when we usually mean less than a quart. We also say trich, when we see green mold, even though it could be another type. If you don't like the way we use the english language around here well start a petition or something to change it, but going after Bod about our vernacular is lame.
I'm not biased toward or against Bod by the way, I butt heads with him almost daily it seems. When I see something way out of line I tend to correct it, it's that simple.
I have been around since 2009 and sterile always meant sterile, sorry Anyway I have nothing against you or Bodhisatta
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Low Yield, Strange Growth, Noob Questions [Re: LeopardMan]
#21774720 - 06/07/15 03:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've been around long enough to know you are way wrong, nobody's jars are sterile even after hours in the pressure cooker, or did you not know this?
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