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Offlinekoods
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21760948 - 06/04/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

koods said:
No. The numbers don't lie. They kill at a much higher rate than any demographic including the people you are thinking of.




Can you post a link to that stat? I'm genuinely curios to see how much higher it is than the general populace. I'd be surprised if it's higher than soldiers, but it makes sense otherwise. As far as I know, cops are the only guys who have to engage violent people as part of their job. Everybody else is supposed to pass violent situations over to law enforcement.




Well there were 11,000 homicides in the US last year out if a population of 315,000,000 which is a rate of 34 per million

There are a million cops and they are responsible for approximately 1000 per year.

So general population is 34 oer million and cops are 1000 per million.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
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Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: qman]
    #21760956 - 06/04/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

XLCaps said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://wreg.com/2014/11/25/salt-lake-cop-cleared-in-shooting-of-unarmed-white-man/

The cop has been cleared.

"Footage from the officer's body camera shows Officer Cruz repeatedly asked Dillon to show has hands. On the footage Taylor can be heard saying "Hah, fool."

"Officials say Taylor's blood alcohol level was .18 percent when he was shot"

"DA Gill said Taylor's Facebook posts show he was suicidal before the shooting...Taylor was wanted for felony arrest warrant at the time of the shooting"



So they knew he was intoxicated and acting irrationally, and took no measures to deal with the situation accordingly. Great.

I understand the suicidal part, and even the felony arrest. Does it say what he was wanted for?

To me this highlights the ineffective training in regard to people under the influence and with mental disabilities. I can see how it all went down just as well as you did but what I saw more than anything was a cop going for the last option first.




They didn't know he was intoxicated at the time, this was found out after the shooting.  Intoxicated people can be just as dangerous as sober people, so what difference does it make?



It means they aren't in their right mind. And maybe you are right about them not knowing, but the likelihood is low considering they deal with intoxicated people all the time, enough to know the difference immediately. At a blood alcohol level of .18, the man's gait would be enough of an indication.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods]
    #21760957 - 06/04/15 09:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

How can one not find it appalling  that the police are responsible for almost 10% of the homicides in the US.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: qman]
    #21760963 - 06/04/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wish more of the user base here were people with some background in law enforcement. It would be nice to see an excerpt from a training text book or something to show how cops are actually taught to handle these kind of situations. I've got an EMT book, but all it basically says is stay calm, remove yourself from the situation, and let law enforcement take over until it's safe.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods]
    #21760991 - 06/04/15 10:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

koods said:
No. The numbers don't lie. They kill at a much higher rate than any demographic including the people you are thinking of.




Can you post a link to that stat? I'm genuinely curios to see how much higher it is than the general populace. I'd be surprised if it's higher than soldiers, but it makes sense otherwise. As far as I know, cops are the only guys who have to engage violent people as part of their job. Everybody else is supposed to pass violent situations over to law enforcement.




Well there were 11,000 homicides in the US last year out if a population of 315,000,000 which is a rate of 34 per million

There are a million cops and they are responsible for approximately 1000 per year.

So general population is 34 oer million and cops are 1000 per million.






1000 per mill does seem like it should be a lot smaller when you compare it too 34 per mill though. I hear the cops in Canada need 4 year degrees in something like psychology (I haven't confirmed this myself). Anybody want to do the math to compare Canada's police homicide rate to the US's?


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OfflineKnyggaPlease
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: qman]
    #21760996 - 06/04/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

XLCaps said:
Quote:

KnyggaPlease said:
So go get shot in the knee, and sue for pain and suffering and live a life being unable to walk.  Which is better than death yes however if they don't kill the guy and he has a weapon he can turn around an kill the cop.



That's not a good justification. If the cop shoots to wound he's obviously still focused on the guy, which means any retaliation should be obvious. It would take a split second to unload again. Regardless, you don't be a cop if you're scared of getting shot.



Quote:

qman said:
http://wreg.com/2014/11/25/salt-lake-cop-cleared-in-shooting-of-unarmed-white-man/

The cop has been cleared.

"Footage from the officer's body camera shows Officer Cruz repeatedly asked Dillon to show has hands. On the footage Taylor can be heard saying "Hah, fool."

"Officials say Taylor's blood alcohol level was .18 percent when he was shot"

"DA Gill said Taylor's Facebook posts show he was suicidal before the shooting...Taylor was wanted for felony arrest warrant at the time of the shooting"





It does not justify killing the guy, taze, pep spray or beat the fuck out of him sure but not killing him.


I've mouthed off to a cop before, he'll I just did This last week, does that warrant being executed? Event if I had warrants


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21761003 - 06/04/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Like I indicated before, there are police forces where this isn't a problem because they are run by people who aren't afraid to stand up to the police union and fire bad cops, and has a culture that doesn't allow for the police to think that they are above the law. Like I said, my county has a population over a million and there have only been 9 times when the police have used their guns in the past decade.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineKnyggaPlease
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods]
    #21761011 - 06/04/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Like I indicated before, there are police forces where this isn't a problem because they are run by people who aren't afraid to stand up to the police union and fire bad cops, and has a culture that doesn't allow for the police to think that they are above the law. Like I said, my county has a population over a million and there have only been 9 times when the police have used their guns in the past decade.





You probably don't have as many hood rats as America though.  Thats part of the equation.  A solid chunk of the population are animals


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Offlineqman
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: KnyggaPlease]
    #21761014 - 06/04/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KnyggaPlease said:
Quote:

XLCaps said:
Quote:

KnyggaPlease said:
So go get shot in the knee, and sue for pain and suffering and live a life being unable to walk.  Which is better than death yes however if they don't kill the guy and he has a weapon he can turn around an kill the cop.



That's not a good justification. If the cop shoots to wound he's obviously still focused on the guy, which means any retaliation should be obvious. It would take a split second to unload again. Regardless, you don't be a cop if you're scared of getting shot.



Quote:

qman said:
http://wreg.com/2014/11/25/salt-lake-cop-cleared-in-shooting-of-unarmed-white-man/

The cop has been cleared.

"Footage from the officer's body camera shows Officer Cruz repeatedly asked Dillon to show has hands. On the footage Taylor can be heard saying "Hah, fool."

"Officials say Taylor's blood alcohol level was .18 percent when he was shot"

"DA Gill said Taylor's Facebook posts show he was suicidal before the shooting...Taylor was wanted for felony arrest warrant at the time of the shooting"





It does not justify killing the guy, taze, pep spray or beat the fuck out of him sure but not killing him.


I've mouthed off to a cop before, he'll I just did This last week, does that warrant being executed? Event if I had warrants




"It does not justify killing the guy"

I'm not saying it does, I just wanted to point out some other aspects of the case.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Registered: 11/03/12
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21761016 - 06/04/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

koods said:
No. The numbers don't lie. They kill at a much higher rate than any demographic including the people you are thinking of.




Can you post a link to that stat? I'm genuinely curios to see how much higher it is than the general populace. I'd be surprised if it's higher than soldiers, but it makes sense otherwise. As far as I know, cops are the only guys who have to engage violent people as part of their job. Everybody else is supposed to pass violent situations over to law enforcement.




Well there were 11,000 homicides in the US last year out if a population of 315,000,000 which is a rate of 34 per million

There are a million cops and they are responsible for approximately 1000 per year.

So general population is 34 oer million and cops are 1000 per million.






1000 per mill does seem like it should be a lot smaller when you compare it too 34 per mill though. I hear the cops in Canada need 4 year degrees in something like psychology (I haven't confirmed this myself). Anybody want to do the math to compare Canada's police homicide rate to the US's?



The wiki page says 17 this year but it also says the page is incomplete, though it covers every death they can over the years and the list looks like less than 100. I heard once the average is like one a month. And te psychology degree isn't true as far as I know but they do psychology courses during training.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: KnyggaPlease]
    #21761024 - 06/04/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KnyggaPlease said:
Quote:

koods said:
Like I indicated before, there are police forces where this isn't a problem because they are run by people who aren't afraid to stand up to the police union and fire bad cops, and has a culture that doesn't allow for the police to think that they are above the law. Like I said, my county has a population over a million and there have only been 9 times when the police have used their guns in the past decade.





You probably don't have as many hood rats as America though.  Thats part of the equation.  A solid chunk of the population are animals




Here's the racial demographics. It is a minority white county.

White, Non-Hispanic 49%
Black or African-American 17%
White Hispanic 17%
Asian 14%
Non-white, Hispanic 2%
Two or more races


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineKnyggaPlease
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods] * 1
    #21761026 - 06/04/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Demographics are cool and all but social conditioning creates animals


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods] * 1
    #21761034 - 06/04/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
How can one not find it appalling  that the police are responsible for almost 10% of the homicides in the US.





how many of those are justifiable homicides?

seems most liberals want guns taken from the citizens leaving only cops and criminals with guns

what will that do to that statistic


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InvisibleThe Doobie Dude


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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods]
    #21761039 - 06/04/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Cops are scum of the earth




--------------------

"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head.  If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick
I PLURed once because it was PLUR or die. - D.M.T.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: KnyggaPlease]
    #21761048 - 06/04/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KnyggaPlease said:
Demographics are cool and all but social conditioning creates animals




Well, we are talking about statistics. Here's all the demographic info from the count website

Code:
Population	974,824
Population % change, 2000-2010 11.3%
Median Age 38
Foreign-born population 32%
Persons age 5 and older who speak
a language other than English at home 36%
Number of households 357,086
Number of persons per household 2.7
Educational Attainment
High school graduates,
% of persons age 25+, 2005-2009 91.1%
Bachelor’s degree or higher,
% of persons age 25+, 2005-2009 56.1%
Gender
Males 48%
Females 52%
Race
White, Non-Hispanic 49%
Black or African-American 17%
White Hispanic 17%
Asian 14%
Non-white, Hispanic 2%
Two or more races 4%
Income
Median household income, 2009 $96,985



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: larry.fisherman] * 1
    #21761057 - 06/04/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

http://discoverpolicing.org/what_does_take/?fa=training_academy_life

This webpage has a little table summarizing time spent on various topics in american police training at academies. The most time spent is 60 hours on firearms training. Next is 50 hours on health and fitness. 3rd is investigations at 45 hrs, and self defense at 44 hrs. Mediation skills/conflict management has 8 hrs.




Quote:

XLCaps said:

...


The wiki page says 17 this year but it also says the page is incomplete, though it covers every death they can over the years and the list looks like less than 100. I heard once the average is like one a month. And te psychology degree isn't true as far as I know but they do psychology courses during training.





I did a quick google, and it looks like the education requirements are similar for Canada and the US. Thanks for the correction. A curriculum comparison for their training would be cool if somebody can find one.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (06/04/15 10:27 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21761089 - 06/04/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
How can one not find it appalling  that the police are responsible for almost 10% of the homicides in the US.





how many of those are justifiable homicides?

seems most liberals want guns taken from the citizens leaving only cops and criminals with guns

what will that do to that statistic




Cops are criminals.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods] * 1
    #21761098 - 06/04/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry in advance as I'm sure this is a dumb question, but wtf is a white hispanic, that sounds like a contradicting title.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: koods]
    #21761167 - 06/04/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
How can one not find it appalling  that the police are responsible for almost 10% of the homicides in the US.



Because almost all of them are justifiable shooting of scumbags who are a danger to the civilian population.  Chicago more than one actual murder per day.  That is far more than the number of unjustified police killings NATIONWIDE

http://homicides.suntimes.com/2015/06/01/police-161-murders-in-151-days-in-chicago/

Without the cops the vast majority of you would be victims


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Seriously unjustified shooting by a cop [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21761172 - 06/04/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Sorry in advance as I'm sure this is a dumb question, but wtf is a white hispanic, that sounds like a contradicting title.



It was a NY Times invention when George Zimmerman shot the thug Trayvon Martin in self defense and they wanted to blame it on whitey and make it a race issue.  Because that is what they do.  All Hispanics are white unless they are mixed.


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