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vandago



Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,917
Loc: .
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: vandago]
#21779588 - 06/08/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was posting things like "PERIOD SMASH", and "You won't like me when I'm cunty"
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: vandago]
#21779592 - 06/08/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: koods]
#21780024 - 06/08/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don't tell anybody but BlindSophist is in love with a jack-booted conservative thug. Keep it on the down low.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#21780588 - 06/08/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: koods]
#21781287 - 06/08/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This post has been moved by: Amanita86
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
Edited by Amanita86 (06/08/15 11:45 PM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: vandago]
#21781813 - 06/09/15 06:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
vandago said: For weeks I thought they were talking about bruce banner, and I was making a bunch of shitty hulk sex change jokes.
I looked pretty stupid at the bar the other night when I was telling them.
Ouch.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: zappaisgod]
#21783097 - 06/09/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Don't tell anybody but BlindSophist is in love with a jack-booted conservative thug. Keep it on the down low.
world class discretion. can i pick 'em or can i pick 'em?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Titus_Pullo


Registered: 01/23/10
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: zappaisgod]
#21783426 - 06/09/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
I think the difference though, is that even if you gave steroids to people who were body dysmorphic and they became huge, they would always see themselves as tiny. No matter how big they get, it is never enough.
Same with anorexics. No matter how skinny they get, it's never enough. That's why you have girls who are 50-lb toothpicks who still view themselves as obese and only eat an apple every 3 days, and some end up dying from starvation because of it.
There is a saying in bodybuilding: "The day you started lifting is the day you became forever small."
I bet you anything all those 250lb and 300lb guys who compete in Mr Olympia are up their on the stage, and they're secretly thinking, "Man I need to work on my quads, my traps are so fucking tiny. WHY AM I SO TINY I JUST WANNA KILL MYSELF!!!" They probably look in the mirror and see a pre-pubescent Justin Bieber body.
Whereas, if you do gender conversion therapy on somebody who wants to be TG, they see themselves as complete once all the operations are finished.
You're establishing an arbitrary difference between two very similar mental disorders. Also, I highly doubt trans people see themselves as complete after gender conversion and I'm not sure why you seem so convinced. GID, anorexia, and body dismorphia are all very similar from a psychological standpoint but for some reason people suffering from GID are allowed to indulge in their delusions whereas no one has a problem telling someone with anorexia that they are fucked in the head.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't believe she is mentally ill and I'm as sane as they come. I think you are, though, Fred Phelps. I do not know what the best treatment for you is. Electroshock? Castration? I don't really know
"The majority of trans people commit suicide?" You are a liar.
They are not happy because of nitwits who impose a cultural doctrine on them. They are accepted in Thailand because there aren't intolerant assholes there regarding this issue (they are plenty intolerant about a lot of other shit). It is a cultural problem for them imposed by ignorant assholes. Guess what I think you are.
Not sure what exactly you're trying to say here. Do you have a point or did you just feel like name-calling?
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Titus_Pullo]
#21783455 - 06/09/15 02:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Every organism has an internal drive to fulfill its biological design.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Titus_Pullo]
#21783479 - 06/09/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Speaking from -experience- (heaven forbid), Crystal_G is right that the comparison you draw between body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria is inaccurate. The distinction is not arbitrary, but borne out by evidence and results. Speaking for myself, I actually would be perfectly happy if my breasts would stop growing today, 34C is big enough for me. But what would I know? The esteemed Dr. Titus_Pullo has diagnosed me with delusions.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/09/15 02:39 PM)
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Titus_Pullo] 1
#21783488 - 06/09/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Titus_Pullo said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
I think the difference though, is that even if you gave steroids to people who were body dysmorphic and they became huge, they would always see themselves as tiny. No matter how big they get, it is never enough.
Same with anorexics. No matter how skinny they get, it's never enough. That's why you have girls who are 50-lb toothpicks who still view themselves as obese and only eat an apple every 3 days, and some end up dying from starvation because of it.
There is a saying in bodybuilding: "The day you started lifting is the day you became forever small."
I bet you anything all those 250lb and 300lb guys who compete in Mr Olympia are up their on the stage, and they're secretly thinking, "Man I need to work on my quads, my traps are so fucking tiny. WHY AM I SO TINY I JUST WANNA KILL MYSELF!!!" They probably look in the mirror and see a pre-pubescent Justin Bieber body.
Whereas, if you do gender conversion therapy on somebody who wants to be TG, they see themselves as complete once all the operations are finished.
You're establishing an arbitrary difference between two very similar mental disorders. Also, I highly doubt trans people see themselves as complete after gender conversion and I'm not sure why you seem so convinced. GID, anorexia, and body dismorphia are all very similar from a psychological standpoint but for some reason people suffering from GID are allowed to indulge in their delusions whereas no one has a problem telling someone with anorexia that they are fucked in the head.
You're using the word delusion in a pretty sloppy way. But if you assume that anorexics and GID people are both delusional then the difference is not arbitrary, and it's pretty simple. When you indulge the "delusions" of an anorexic, they die of starvation. When you indulge the "delusions" of people suffering from GID, they get better. You can doubt that all you want, but then you're being "delusional". The two trans people who've posted in this thread seem to be a lot happier after their surgeries, and that seems to be the case for pretty much everybody who's undergone the surgery. It really seems like you don't have a very deep inside perspective on this issue. Maybe you should ask some questions instead of spouting out presumptions.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Titus_Pullo] 1
#21783497 - 06/09/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Titus_Pullo said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't believe she is mentally ill and I'm as sane as they come. I think you are, though, Fred Phelps. I do not know what the best treatment for you is. Electroshock? Castration? I don't really know
"The majority of trans people commit suicide?" You are a liar.
They are not happy because of nitwits who impose a cultural doctrine on them. They are accepted in Thailand because there aren't intolerant assholes there regarding this issue (they are plenty intolerant about a lot of other shit). It is a cultural problem for them imposed by ignorant assholes. Guess what I think you are.
Not sure what exactly you're trying to say here. Do you have a point or did you just feel like name-calling?
I think my point is pretty fucking clear and your inability to see what everybody else can reinforces it
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21783624 - 06/09/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I feel mixed. What he says is not particulary untrue.
The suicide rate is in fact pretty high. Even after surgery.
That's the scary part >.< . ending up regretting it.
The fact he doesn't reply to biological design intertwined with psychological turmoil tells me enough though
Edited by Beanhead (06/09/15 02:56 PM)
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


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Posts: 43,135
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Beanhead]
#21783651 - 06/09/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beanhead said: I feel mixed. What he says is not particulary untrue.
The suicide rate is in fact pretty high. Even after surgery.
That's the scary part >.< . ending up regretting it.
The fact he doesn't reply to biological design intertwined with psychological turmoil tells me enough though 
He is talking out of his ass. Zapp is correct that the high suicide rate is attributable to cultural stigma. The satisfaction rate for sex reassignment surgery is something like 95%. To put that in perspective, the satisfaction rate for all surgeries taken together is 60%.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Titus_Pullo]
#21783659 - 06/09/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Titus_Pullo said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
I think the difference though, is that even if you gave steroids to people who were body dysmorphic and they became huge, they would always see themselves as tiny. No matter how big they get, it is never enough.
Same with anorexics. No matter how skinny they get, it's never enough. That's why you have girls who are 50-lb toothpicks who still view themselves as obese and only eat an apple every 3 days, and some end up dying from starvation because of it.
There is a saying in bodybuilding: "The day you started lifting is the day you became forever small."
I bet you anything all those 250lb and 300lb guys who compete in Mr Olympia are up their on the stage, and they're secretly thinking, "Man I need to work on my quads, my traps are so fucking tiny. WHY AM I SO TINY I JUST WANNA KILL MYSELF!!!" They probably look in the mirror and see a pre-pubescent Justin Bieber body.
Whereas, if you do gender conversion therapy on somebody who wants to be TG, they see themselves as complete once all the operations are finished.
You're establishing an arbitrary difference between two very similar mental disorders. Also, I highly doubt trans people see themselves as complete after gender conversion and I'm not sure why you seem so convinced. GID, anorexia, and body dismorphia are all very similar from a psychological standpoint but for some reason people suffering from GID are allowed to indulge in their delusions whereas no one has a problem telling someone with anorexia that they are fucked in the head.
Like Mr. GuessWork said, encouraging anorexia IS dangerous and life-threatening for the patient. People literally die of starvation from doing it. The only people who die from wanting to be TG are people who have accidental complications during surgery (meaning, it would have likely happened eventually from a non-sex-reassignment-related surgery anyway). Or people who commit suicide because they end up getting bullied, or their families reject them, because society stigmatizes it so much.
I can see WHY you would call them similar, if only for the fact that all the disorders you mentioned place such an emphasis on wanting to change and alter your physical appearance to fit some image that exists in your head.
However, you have to consider the REASON behind why people want to change or alter their body.
For example, we wouldn't call an activist who goes on a hunger strike for 60 days "anorexic," even though they are doing precisely the exact same thing that anorexic people do. Many people would instead praise this activist, and call them "brave." Why do you think that is? It is because the underlying reason you do something, in fact, actually changes everything.
A lot of people mistakenly assume people become anorexic to be beautiful, but that is actually NOT the first and foremost reason. If you actually study the lives of anorexics, many of them started their anorexia after some type of trauma, usually when they are exposed to it in their early teen or pre-teen years.
Same with bodybuilders. Ever notice that it was always the kid who got the shit beat out of him by his parents, who ends up becoming a humongous, massive bodybuilder? They do that because they are psychologically traumatized and have an inferiority complex, they don't ever want to feel that weak and vulnerable like they were when they were small children ever again. These people end up WANTING to look like freaks, because they WANT people to look at them and be intimidated. They want to be able to walk around and ensure that NOBODY will EVER mess with them again.
There is a REAL psychological association with trauma and body dysmorphia and anorexia, and I think that you are ignoring a huge component of what underlies and motivates people with anorexia and BDD. They need psychological help, because more often than not, it is actually their trauma that is causing their disorders.
Not compare that with TG's. To my knowledge there has been no correlation or causation between TG's and trauma (aside from the trauma inflicted by society AFTER deciding to become openly TG). They simply feel like their physical body does not match their mental or sexual identity whatsoever, often due to varying levels of hormones and neurological brain-wave activity.
By the way, society DOES encourage some form of anorexia and BDD to an extent. I remember that Victoria's Secret Model Adriana Lima going on a TV interview for ABC, and she talked about how her diet consists of eating nothing but celery and water for 14 days before a big show. And the fucking people interviewing her were praising her for it, like "Wowwwww that's amazing! How did you have the willpower and how did you achieve that??" As if that's something that should be praised. Show me an activist who's been on a hunger strike for 14 days, and then color me impressed.
Edited by Crystal G (06/09/15 03:22 PM)
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Crystal G]
#21783784 - 06/09/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here is a good article which debunks many nagging myths about post transition regrets. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6160626
It is hard to accept for many cisgender people, who are not acquainted with gender dysphoria, that the vast majority of people who wish to transition know what they need, have realistic expectations, and are motivated by nothing but rational self interest.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/09/15 03:44 PM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
#21783806 - 06/09/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, I just think the spectrum is that wide that there is no narrowed down cause.
Theories On Causes Of CD Then again that is TV and not TG.
Thanks, I will read that.
edit: oh and I agree it's the aftermath of other peoples opinions that drives people to that point
Edited by Beanhead (06/09/15 03:45 PM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Macey Howard]
#21783855 - 06/09/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Macey Howard said: In both instances I didn't tell them I was trans, I let them have their opinion because its a free country.
Please teach me this, i'd probably crack.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Beanhead]
#21783882 - 06/09/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Beanie, if you'd like, I can teach you my voice training regimen, it takes a few months of daily practice but it works. IME voice is at least half of what it takes to "pass" for a cis woman. New acquaintances and people in public don't have any idea that I'm trans these days unless I choose to let them in on it. Mwahahahaha.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 13 minutes, 13 seconds
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Re: Caitlyn Jenner..... everybody is coming out these days! [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
#21783933 - 06/09/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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My mother has a trans friend and I hate to say it, she walks like a man. I don't know exactly what it is that makes a walk male or female, but I perceive it.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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