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OfflineD.M.T
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Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral?
    #21757932 - 06/03/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Do you think raising humans for research that were created in a lab, and contained only within that lab, is a cruel and/or immoral practice?

Why or why not?
What do you think?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (06/03/15 01:03 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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InvisibleShroomopotamus
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: D.M.T] * 3
    #21757953 - 06/03/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

this is the most hipsterish thread i've seen in months


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: D.M.T]
    #21757957 - 06/03/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I love animals and shit but man humans have very complex emotions and a normal, non mentally ill person would feel terrible doing that (raising humans for testing)

I mean shit it blows my mind how powerful the brain is and how much a person accomplishes in their life... ending someones life early is erasing a future that you can't even predict... fuck what if that dude in the lab is the next steve jobs or something? You would never know...


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Shroomopotamus]
    #21757958 - 06/03/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomopotamus said:
this is the most hipsterish thread i've seen in months




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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Shroomopotamus]
    #21757966 - 06/03/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What does that even mean?


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I'm stupid, Enlil is smart.
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OfflineIhateyou
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #21757972 - 06/03/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's no more or less moral than doing it to animals which is messed up. It's necessary for our survival but it's messed up.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: D.M.T]
    #21757978 - 06/03/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'd love to hear how someone attempts to justify this as moral thing. Who knows though, maybe they'll be able to change my mind, but it is unbelievably cruel to do that to something that is conscious, self aware, has feelings like me and you, just to be caged while actually being capable of understanding what's happening to them. When we do it to animals, at least we can pretend animals aren't as aware or have feelings like we do or blah blah, but another human? Can't see it.

The only justification I could see anyone attempt to make, is saving hundreds of thousands of people (from cancer, disease, etc.) by sacrificing a few, but even then, can you really say it's still morally acceptable to do that to somebody, just because other people will benefit? What would make the lives of the people who benefit from it more important to the ones who were tested and abused for research?

And even then, curing cancer and all disease by doing shit like that, would it really be worth it? Resources being finite, land being finite, so many things wouldn't benefit from more people, so saving more people in some ways isn't always a good thing or beneficial. I could just keep going around in loops why it is both good/bad simultaneously, but I'll just end with saying it's immoral. Justifying other people doing it when I myself wouldn't be able to do it or want to do it doesn't sit right with me, so I'll just stick with immoral.


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Invisiblepsychodelia
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: D.M.T] * 1
    #21757988 - 06/03/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Of course it's immoral. Immoral to do it to animals too.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Ihateyou]
    #21757992 - 06/03/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ihateyou said:
It's no more or less moral than doing it to animals which is messed up. It's necessary for our survival but it's messed up.





I disagree, overpopulation isn't necessary for survival....yeah when someone you know gets sick it sucks, but disease is necessary in some ways. We'd be able to survive with or without doing it, maybe just not as large of a population. Plus humans will inevitably go extinct at some point, so really we'd just torture something that is aware of what's happening to it for the same end result in the long run.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: psychodelia]
    #21757994 - 06/03/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Humans are superior to animals tho so I have no problem with it.


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OfflineIhateyou
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21757996 - 06/03/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I'd love to hear how someone attempts to justify this as moral thing. Maybe they'll be able to change my mind, but it is unbelievably cruel to do that to something that is conscious, self aware, has feelings like me and you, just to be caged while actually being capable of understanding what's happening to them. When we do it to animals, at least we can pretend animals aren't as aware or have feelings like we do or blah blah, but another human? Can't see it.

The only justification I could see anyone attempt to make, is saving hundreds of thousands of people (from cancer, disease, etc.) by sacrificing a few, but even then, can you really say it's still morally acceptable to do that to somebody, just because other people will benefit? What would make the lives of the people who benefit from it more important to the ones who were tested and abused for research?

And even then, curing cancer and all disease by doing shit like that, would it really be worth it? Resources being finite, land being finite, so many things wouldn't benefit from more people, so saving more people in some ways isn't always a good thing or beneficial. I could just keep going around in loops why it is both good/bad simultaneously, but I'll just end with saying it's immoral. Justifying other people doing it when I myself wouldn't be able to do it or want to do it doesn't sit right with me, so I'll just stick with immoral.



If you're apathetic enough to do it to animals, that's pretty fucked up and as far as I'm concerned both are helpful for our survival so people who can do that to animals should have no problem doing it to people.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Ihateyou]
    #21758004 - 06/03/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't agree with doing it to animals, and in my own small ways I try not to contribute to it...I go organic meat because the animals are much better taken care of that way, at least when I can afford to. Unfortunately that's the only real way I can contribute since I have 0 power over how food is produced and telling or showing people how animals are treated so poorly whether it be for food or research....doesn't really do anything.

"When we do it to animals, at least we can pretend animals aren't as aware or have feelings like we do or blah blah, but another human? Can't see it." Hard to convey through text but that's why I said that kind of sarcastically. Sometimes when I feel a argument is imminent, I add in the argument I think people will use to my response and try to counter it before it even gets to that point, doesnt always work though lol :tongue:


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (06/03/15 04:30 PM)


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OfflineIhateyou
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #21758006 - 06/03/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Humans are superior to animals tho so I have no problem with it.



Tell that to bacteria and viruses. They are thriving a lot better than humans. Remember that ever time you get a contamination during a grow.


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OfflineIhateyou
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21758037 - 06/03/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Ihateyou said:
It's no more or less moral than doing it to animals which is messed up. It's necessary for our survival but it's messed up.





I disagree, overpopulation isn't necessary for survival....yeah when someone you know gets sick it sucks, but disease is necessary in some ways. We'd be able to survive with or without doing it, maybe just not as large of a population. Plus humans will inevitably go extinct at some point, so really we'd just torture something that is aware of what's happening to it for the same end result in the long run.



You're missing my point. If you can do it to an animal you can do it to a person. It would be better to experiment on people and would help us make more progress in science. The only difference between doing this to people and animals is it's harder to be apathetic to humans.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Ihateyou]
    #21758053 - 06/03/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ohhhh, but that still was part of my point, I personally couldn't do it to animals, and wish people in general didn't. It's not that I'm apathetic, I just realized a long time ago how powerless I am about any of it, and how little a difference I would make, even if I dedicated my life to changing it.

So I just try not to contribute to the things I disagree with, and that's about the only difference I can make.


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21758062 - 06/03/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Are you against doing it to all animals? I totally see where you are coming from but I personally have never viewed testings done on vermin species as cruel


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States Flag
Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21758084 - 06/03/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I really don't know to be honest, I'd love to be that diehard hippy and say all animals are equal and it's cruel to do it to anything that's alive, but in the same sense I realize my own bias towards certain animals. Like snakes, fuck em, do whatever you want....but dogs?

I don't want to say it's "cruel" to do it to things such as rats, but I also don't want to say it's right, but at the same time, rats will almost definitely outlive us with or without testing on them, so are we making a difference, or are we just torturing animals for a future that is inevitable to the human species with or without it.

I guess I'll have to say no I'm not against doing it to all animals or else I'd be a hypocrite in some ways, but I still wish it wasn't needed and I can't say I exactly like it because I can never think about something being done to something without thinking about what it would be like if I was that thing/person.

Plus I put myself in the position of what if I had a kid or something, and that kid got cancer, and they cured my kid of that cancer...could I really frown upon the testing they did on animals for the drugs they used to treat my childs cancer? Or would I just be selfish since I wouldn't care solely because it was my child that those test ended up saving? I really don't know lol I'd love to be on one side of it, but I understand the other side at the same time, so I guess I'll have to say no I'm not against all animals or I'd be a hypocrite.

I guess it's natural to care about your own species more then others, but are we objectively more important then other animals, or do we just feel like we are, the answer to that is something we'll probably never know, but important to figure out whether it is objectively right or wrong. If we are more important, nothing wrong with it. But if we only feel more important, then it may be wrong, but our own human bias makes us feel like it isn't.

I do personally think everything truly is equal and we only feel more important then everything else, since everything from an ant's accomplishments to a humans will have the exact same relevance in a universe the size of this, regardless of how much research we do, how many people we save, it will all be lost forever with no trace of us ever existing at some point... it will undoubtedly, be totally irrelevant no matter what we do in this reality as time passes. But I benefit from that testing and I only experience my own life so of course I feel more important then other forms of life that I can't relate to so I have no choice but to be biased about it.

Just reread this and so sorry I went off on a rant haha, but I've actually thought about this shit a lot before so I wanted to make my thoughts on it as understandable as I could, probably ended up making it more confusing though haha


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (06/03/15 05:20 PM)


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #21758100 - 06/03/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomopotamus said:
this is the most hipsterish thread i've seen in months



Yes, I'm an alien asking about raising humans in labs for research purposes. It's funny. Ha ha. What's your opinion though?

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Humans are superior to animals tho so I have no problem with it.




Thank you for an honest answer. I suspected this was the case.


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: Gottaloveacid] * 2
    #21758156 - 06/03/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
fuck what if that dude in the lab is the next steve jobs or something? You would never know...



Then we should definitely kill it and get it over with.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Is raising humans strictly for research cruel and immoral? [Re: propensity]
    #21758169 - 06/03/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Nothing wrong with it unless i'm or someone I care about is the test subject :shrug:


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