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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence
#21755913 - 06/03/15 02:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sorry for all of the questions. I've labelled them for you to respond to them easier.
1. Let's say I inoculate a grain jar with MS LI and it fully colonize and I spawn to grain. Have the genetics changed completely since I broke apart the network and they had to recolonize the new substrate?
2. What type of strain changes are there between the grain jar and the final mycelial network in the tub? Like, were there more strains in the jar or final tub network?
3. Overall, is the tub mycelium weaker than the original jar mycelium since it had to be broken up and recover?
4. IIUC, anastomosis lowers the amount of strains present by the end of the cycle. When hyphae join together, do they wind up combining genetics? Do each hyphae even have genetics yet or is that only determined after they join with compatible other hyphae?
5. Will each fruit from the same substrate carry different and have different strains from the others? I am assuming this is a very clear yes.
6. If #3 and #4 is true, would cloning the biggest fruit in a cluster, and then growing out each strain into an isolate be a huge shortcut in isolating proven fruiters?
7. If #5 is true, why do people transfer directly from agar until they have isolates to try? The myc hasn't completed growth cycle yet and will be stronger?
8. Let's say I transfer a piece of an isolate to a new plate, grow it out a bit, and transfer again, and again, and again. Am I making the genetics weaker with each transfer/leading it to senescence? Or is that only if I fruit it and then start transferring?
I feel like my questions show where I lack the knowledge, so a straightforward paragraph of general knowledge or something (if easier) works fine instead of going down the line.
I'd also accept a link to reading material that answers these. I promise I have spent the last few hours reading all of the known threads on this and not all of this is explained in them.
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Yerow
Stranger



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 1,206
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence [Re: stareatclouds]
#21756083 - 06/03/15 04:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 20 hours
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Re: Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence [Re: stareatclouds] 1
#21756115 - 06/03/15 05:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
stareatclouds said: Sorry for all of the questions. I've labelled them for you to respond to them easier.
1. Let's say I inoculate a grain jar with MS LI and it fully colonize and I spawn to grain. Have the genetics changed completely since I broke apart the network and they had to recolonize the new substrate?
I assume you are talking about a G2G transfer, since we do not spawn to grain, we spawn to bulk.
Did the genetics change? No. Spread out? Yes.
Quote:
stareatclouds said: 2. What type of strain changes are there between the grain jar and the final mycelial network in the tub? Like, were there more strains in the jar or final tub network?
My guess would be the same amount, considering you didn't take any way, you just spread them out. Different genetics will grow on top of each other with each other. Just because you shook up the grains and segregated them a bit does not mean there are less genetics in each jar.....there should still be the same amount of genetics, just now spread to multiple jars.
Quote:
stareatclouds said: 3. Overall, is the tub mycelium weaker than the original jar mycelium since it had to be broken up and recover?
Technically yes. Because of that, cell division, age, etc.....
Quote:
stareatclouds said: 4. IIUC, anastomosis lowers the amount of strains present by the end of the cycle. When hyphae join together, do they wind up combining genetics? Do each hyphae even have genetics yet or is that only determined after they join with compatible other hyphae?
When the hyphae from spore A comes into contact with hyphae from spore B, they create a unique set of genetics. These genetics can grow with/on top of other genetics.
Quote:
stareatclouds said: 5. Will each fruit from the same substrate carry different and have different strains from the others? I am assuming this is a very clear yes.
Yes, a fruit can carry multiple sets of unique genetics.
Quote:
stareatclouds said: 6. If #3 and #4 is true, would cloning the biggest fruit in a cluster, and then growing out each strain into an isolate be a huge shortcut in isolating proven fruiters?
Sometimes....it all depends on the culture.....sometimes they perform better as a combined set of genetics rather than individually segregated.
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stareatclouds said: 7. If #5 is true, why do people transfer directly from agar until they have isolates to try? The myc hasn't completed growth cycle yet and will be stronger?
Age of the mycellium has a lot to do with it yes....it's all personal preference.
Personally I would not isolate from spores.....I would clone a pin and start there.
Quote:
stareatclouds said: 8. Let's say I transfer a piece of an isolate to a new plate, grow it out a bit, and transfer again, and again, and again. Am I making the genetics weaker with each transfer/leading it to senescence?
Yes, cell division = aging.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence [Re: PussyFart]
#21756595 - 06/03/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nicely done, pussy. and you did without any rr quotes. Jk
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence [Re: insanemike]
#21756617 - 06/03/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said: Nicely done, pussy. and you did without any rr quotes. Jk
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blojo02184
Big Red



Registered: 05/15/13
Posts: 3,525
Loc: Maine
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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Re: Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence [Re: insanemike]
#21756641 - 06/03/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said: Nicely done, pussy. and you did without any rr quotes. Jk
He also did it without telling the op to use the search bar and backhanded remarks to show his mastery of the subject matter.
You sick pf?
jk buddy
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence [Re: stareatclouds]
#21756653 - 06/03/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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*deleted*
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/03/15 09:36 AM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Many Q's on Isolation, Cloning, Anastomosis and Senescence [Re: mustangbob3]
#21756978 - 06/03/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I assume you are talking about a G2G transfer, since we do not spawn to grain, we spawn to bulk.
Yes, it was late and I was tired. I meant spawn the grain to a tub .
Quote:
My guess would be the same amount, considering you didn't take any way, you just spread them out. Different genetics will grow on top of each other with each other. Just because you shook up the grains and segregated them a bit does not mean there are less genetics in each jar.....there should still be the same amount of genetics, just now spread to multiple jars.
Interesting. So would strains increase on a bigger landscape vs. a smaller one? Like there's more strains in a 3D plane of grain jars as opposed to 2D of agar plate, right?
Quote:
Yes, a fruit can carry multiple sets of unique genetics.
Interesting. I guess this explains why we have different types of fruits in MS tubs and why we clone from specific ones with desired characteristics.
Quote:
Sometimes....it all depends on the culture.....sometimes they perform better as a combined set of genetics rather than individually segregated.
How would it be possible to do both? Save master plate with the chunks taken out of each sector and make that into LI or something? All while growing out and fruiting each isolated sector?
Quote:
Yes, cell division = aging.
Thanks. So as far as cell division and aging goes, I've heard many numbers quoted (RR saying 5 G2G is fine, but more than that and he can see senescence, etc.). Is a clone to agar stored as a master totally fine? I'm assuming yes since stored properly, you're still taking that young myc each time and it's the same cell division each additional transfer.
Thanks a lot, PF.
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