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Keyaladis
Kin


Registered: 05/28/15
Posts: 5
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Thoughts on my LC *DELETED* *DELETED*
#21755492 - 06/02/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Keyaladis
Reason for deletion: Ayy
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PantsR4squares
Adventurer



Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 170
Loc: In the woods
Last seen: 16 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Thoughts on my LC [Re: Keyaladis]
#21755560 - 06/02/15 11:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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How did you inoculate it?
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Keyaladis
Kin


Registered: 05/28/15
Posts: 5
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Post deleted by Keyaladis
Reason for deletion: Reasons
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PantsR4squares
Adventurer



Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 170
Loc: In the woods
Last seen: 16 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Thoughts on my LC [Re: Keyaladis]
#21755981 - 06/03/15 03:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's how I created 5 quarts of LC my first and only time making it. All seemed well as I ran tests on brf cakes and everything colonized then fruited. But when I committed the LC to a few dozens jars that then colonized went into seven 66qt monos. I had to throw them all out but one out because of contamination.
Moral of the story is an LC can hide contaminants from plain sight and you will not know they are there until they sneak up on you later on, ruining a 7 mono tub investment. That being so, you want to inoculate your LC via the cleanest soure, like agar. Spores are not sterile and you will be lucky if that ms works without contaminants. I've seen it work before.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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I used to prefer LC's until I came across LI. LC vs LI to me is a no brainer. LI is faster and more reliable.
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PantsR4squares
Adventurer



Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 170
Loc: In the woods
Last seen: 16 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
insanemike sgee: I used to prefer LC's until I came across LI. LC vs LI to me is a no brainer. LI is faster and more reliable.
Quote:
insanemike said: I used to prefer LC's until I came across LI. LC vs LI to me is a no brainer. LI is faster and more reliable.
Quote:
insanemike said: I used to prefer LC's until I came across LI. LC vs LI to me is a no brainer. LI is faster and more reliable.
Quote:
insanemike said: I used to prefer LC's until I came across LI. LC vs LI to me is a no brainer. LI is faster and more reliable.
Quote:
insanemike said: I used to prefer LC's until I came across LI. LC vs LI to me is a no brainer. LI is faster and more reliable.
I have had many attempts at li all ending in failure. I would really like to get them growing. Right now I have a quart jar only 20% filled and fully colonized with very rhizo mazatapec. Now I have followed a tek for 'li and still have failed every time due to no colonization or very little with bacterial contamination. How do you suggest to me to make this next attempt successful. I have thrown out over 50 jars trying to get this to work.
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ShroominMe
Stranger
Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 525
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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It's pretty hard to see in your pic but I would wait another week until you see a nice sized blob. It should look like cotton, not sperm.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Hmm. I would be leery of making a LC with a spore syringe. The only LC I ever made that was successful was a grain water LC inoculated with a clean agar wedge.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Thoughts on my LC [Re: NumeroEno]
#21762020 - 06/04/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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if you fail at over 50 jars I would try a new hobby maybe. or agar until you can do that then don't mess with LI or LC
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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You can use it now or you can wait till later. Kinda depends on how many jars you want to inoculate. The less colonized it is, the more fluid you need to achieve the same result.
If your using a spore syringe, there is a healthy chance it's contaminated unless the person making the syringe was super careful. Proceed with caution.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Thoughts on my LC [Re: invitro]
#21762098 - 06/04/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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in PF jars mycelium out competes the relatively few bacteria in most syringes. be it motile or non motile bacteria it doesn't spread faster than the mycelium will.
in grain jars. bacteria can pose a problem but often times may not post any thread other than diminished yields or early mold infection,
on petri dishes non motile bacteria form colonies and motile ones can cover a whole plate especially if they're on the wet side or condensation is going on.
in an LC the bacteria out competes everything else if present and viable. 1 CFU will just grow till it deplete nutrients. just like in beer if a viable beer spoiling bacteria enters it will soon outnumber yeast by huge margins, until it drives ph to suicidal range or nutrients deplete.
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PantsR4squares
Adventurer



Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 170
Loc: In the woods
Last seen: 16 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: if you fail at over 50 jars I would try a new hobby maybe. or agar until you can do that be mess with LI or LC
The LC I used I thought was clean enough. I tested the LC on dozens of brf cakes with up most success. That being I committed to LC to dozens of jars. Which all colonized but failed during spawn run.
A mistake was made and I have learned from it. Is it really appropriate to tell me to find another hobby? I love this hobby and it will continue to be a part of my life. It's egolistic to look down on one who shares the same interests as yourself.
Live and let learn, what's the issue weather I made a small or big mistake. I still want to proceed in this hobby.
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Cpt_Hyman_Shocker



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 26
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
PantsR4squares said: But when I committed the LC to a few dozens jars that then colonized went into seven 66qt monos. I had to throw them all out but one out because of contamination.
I fail to see how the LC is to blame, considering the grain jars fully colonized.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Yeah and colonized grain jars are always clean
Clean spawn is the hardest part of this hobby. If it was pasteurized properly and at field capacity, yet almost all the tubs failed, it's a contamination from lc/spawn. Everyone who switches to agar notices a major difference in success rates. I wonder why..
There's lots of hidden contaminations, especially the white ones that don't show themselves until you get to bulk. There's bacteria that will weaken the mycelium. Chances are it was from the lc. Especially if there's success when switching to agar
Edited by Mad Season (06/04/15 04:19 PM)
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Cpt_Hyman_Shocker



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 26
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Yeah and colonized grain jars are always clean
Clean spawn is the hardest part of this hobby. If it was pasteurized properly and at field capacity, yet almost all the tubs failed, it's a contamination from lc/spawn. Everyone who switches to agar notices a major difference in success rates. I wonder why..
There's lots of hidden contaminations, especially the white ones that don't show themselves until you get to bulk. There's bacteria that will weaken the mycelium. Chances are it was from the lc. Especially if there's success when switching to agar
Im still not convinced. The hardest part of this hobby, for me, is to get a fully colonized jar.
If any of my jars are contaminated, they won't reach 100% colonization. I've never had a problem colonizing bulk substrate from a fully colonized jar.
Again, this is just from my experience, but my money is on poor pasteurization of the substrate.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Well there's a difference between colonized and cleanly colonized.
This is colonized: 
Lots of members have noticed cobweb and trich from jars that look like this or better. Wet spots are bacteria. Not wet grains or wet spots. To colonize cleanly is the hardest. I had to change my pc times to 2 hours to reduce it.
This is (ALMOST) cleanly colonized, that's how hard it is to have it completely clean. This isn't even completely clean:

This is completely clean spawn:

Anyone who's done this for awhile will testify this is the hardest part of the hobby and is what will dictate the success or failure of bulk.
Edited by Mad Season (06/04/15 04:53 PM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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If LI has been a complete failure for you, it maybe possible to pin point your mistake if you explain your entire process in detail. I have made numerous amounts of LI and have had a 100% success rate. Problems that you could encounter with LI would be unseen bacteria or mold on agar plate or your sterile procedure needs some fine tuning.
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PantsR4squares
Adventurer



Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 170
Loc: In the woods
Last seen: 16 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
Cpt_Hyman_Shocker said:
Quote:
PantsR4squares said: But when I committed the LC to a few dozens jars that then colonized went into seven 66qt monos. I had to throw them all out but one out because of contamination.
I fail to see how the LC is to blame, considering the grain jars fully colonized.
Well contaminants that show up before first flush in a bulk substrate is almost always from dirty spawn. Says RR. If the contam got in during my tub making they wouldn't possibly be able to grow quick enough to ruin a tub before first flush or before full colonization.
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PantsR4squares
Adventurer



Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 170
Loc: In the woods
Last seen: 16 hours, 51 minutes
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[qThoMad Season said: Well there's a difference between colonized and cleanly colonized.
This is colonized: 
Lots of members have noticed cobweb and trich from jars that look like this or better. Wet spots are bacteria. Not wet grains or wet spots. To colonize cleanly is the hardest. I had to change my pc times to 2 hours to reduce it.
This is (ALMOST) cleanly colonized, that's how hard it is to have it completely clean. This isn't even completely clean:

This is completely clean spawn:

Anyone who's done this for awhile will testify this is the hardest part of the hobby and is what will dictate the success or failure of bulk.

I am not new to this hobby and I certainly know proper pasteurization. This was my first endeavor with LC . After testing it on over a dozen brf jars with majority success, I figured I was golden to commit on to grain. The jars all colonized but I could tell it wasn't fully colonized, but I have gotten away with getting flushes out of similar looking spawn jars before. But those jars that worked when looking dubious was g2g of ms. Not like the LC which 8 out of 10 failed. Only one of the two survivors were worth mentioning. Both gave out before second flush.
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Thoughts on my LC [Re: Keyaladis]
#21767462 - 06/05/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
NumeroEno said: Hmm. I would be leery of making a LC with a spore syringe. The only LC I ever made that was successful was a grain water LC inoculated with a clean agar wedge.

Inoculating LC with spores is a very poor way to inoculate LC, unless you have sterile print taking skills, but that's a whole different can of worms. Spores usually harbor small amounts of contams due to being fruited in an open environment. Liquid culturing media is insanely nutrient rich, and is why LC's are so finicky. ANY amount of bacteria or mold spores that get introduced into the media WILL take the over the whole media due to the contams' mycelial culture structure, and growth patterns & growth rate being superior to mushroom mycelium. Also, anything that grows in liquid media can grow three dimensionally. ANYTHING inoculated with a contaminated LC will become contaminated as a result, hence LC being an all or nothing artform. Inoculating LC with a clean culture on agar will ensure that you don't begin LC with dirty inoculm.
Provided at the link below is a pretty decent way to do a LC. Good luck! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21627998#21627998
Quote:
insanemike said: I used to prefer LC's until I came across LI. LC vs LI to me is a no brainer. LI is faster and more reliable.
Myke, that's cool, and all that you have had a better experience with LI over LC, but you have got to STOP running around spreading mis-info. Sure you like LI better, and LI has worked better for you, but that doesn't mean the next guy should be discouraged from trying LC. They just need to be steered into the right direction in the liquid culturing department, because you never know. You could be talking the next LC super-genius out of even trying LC. Folks should be encouraged to try ALL facets of this hobby THE RIGHT WAY, so folks can find the techniques that they may prefer to settle upon down the road.
Edited by hamloaf (06/05/15 10:15 PM)
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