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Climbhigher
Spore Hoarder



Registered: 04/13/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Vancouver Island / S. Alb...
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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Genetics question
#21752341 - 06/02/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I recently received a spore syringe. I made a few cakes, did some grain jars, tried some agar work, even attempted a MS LC. Long story short, everything I did with this syringe gave me shit results. The colonization was painfully slow, ended out with very few fruits etc...
My question is; will those genetic traits be passed down in the spores, or is sporolating like some sort of genetic reset?
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 5,570
Loc: In bed with your mom
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take spore prints and you'll start over with genetics. LC can be very hit or miss, just like multispore knockups.
make up 10+ agar dishes, isolate the fastest ones into 20-30 more, then test out some grain jars that way imo.
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Could be bad genetics, but you said nothing about your conditions. If everything is ridiculously slow and not fruiting well it's likely you, not the strain.
I wouldn't even bother fully isolating at first. Knock up one set of plates, transfer the best ones to one more plate each then use that second generation on some grain. Grow that out, find yourself a clone then isolate from there.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Climbhigher
Spore Hoarder



Registered: 04/13/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Vancouver Island / S. Alb...
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Re: Genetics question [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21752733 - 06/02/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: Could be bad genetics, but you said nothing about your conditions. If everything is ridiculously slow and not fruiting well it's likely you, not the strain.
I wouldn't even bother fully isolating at first. Knock up one set of plates, transfer the best ones to one more plate each then use that second generation on some grain. Grow that out, find yourself a clone then isolate from there.
At the same time as I did this, I did another syringe that I had made from a print. I did 6 BRF jars with the syringe in question, and 6 with the syringe I did. Same with the grain, two jars of each. My understanding is that in a MS situation you are dealing with hundreds of different colonies, so why would this one syringe act so consistently poorly? I noticed that in all the situations, the mycelium was super fuzzy, not nice and ropey like the results I got from the second syringe.
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thebitterbuffalo26
Fartyr



Registered: 04/18/15
Posts: 555
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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I'm interested in knowing the answer to your original question: are spore prints a genetic reset or do they all likely carry the same poor traits?
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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Quote:
thebitterbuffalo26 said: I'm interested in knowing the answer to your original question: are spore prints a genetic reset or do they all likely carry the same poor traits?
Each print is a genetic reset. Only cloning and isolation keeps a single "strain" going.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Genetics question [Re: Myconin]
#21757074 - 06/03/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Myconin said: Each print is a genetic reset. Only cloning and isolation keeps a single "strain" going.
Not completely. You'll get random results from each print you use, but only within the parameters of what that particular genetic line holds. You can absolutely breed traits into or out of your mushrooms over several generations. It's like any sexual reproduction, it's just that there are millions of spores to combine with one another.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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Re: Genetics question [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21757103 - 06/03/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Millions of different spores = genetic reset ime. Yes, they are all from a mutant, but like any other creature in the animal kingdom, the strongest/smartest/fastest survive.
Now, I don't personally don't clone or print mutants. But still, genetically speaking, MS is a turkey shoot, regardless of the cap it came from. You'll have about as close to fresh genetics as you can get without purchasing/trading for new prints imo.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Re: Genetics question [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21757108 - 06/03/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Not completely. You'll get random results from each print you use, but only within the parameters of what that particular genetic line holds
But just because that particular fruit has certain traits doesn't mean that entire line ONLY has those traits? So if you take a spore print from a small, slow growing fruit, it could still contain much better genetics in other spores?
If so, that's basically a genetic reset, just technically limited. Just for our purposes, it's not THAT limited and is basically a reset?
Edit: Myconin is basically saying what I'm saying, I reckon.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
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Re: Genetics question [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21757216 - 06/03/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said:
Quote:
Myconin said: Each print is a genetic reset. Only cloning and isolation keeps a single "strain" going.
Not completely. You'll get random results from each print you use, but only within the parameters of what that particular genetic line holds. You can absolutely breed traits into or out of your mushrooms over several generations. It's like any sexual reproduction, it's just that there are millions of spores to combine with one another.
I agree with this in theory but there is so much genetic diversity that come from one mushroom, I think if you grow spores>grain>spores>grain you will not be able to pick a mushroom you like, and grow mushrooms like it... It's too random every time..
Growing from 2 spores, you have no idea what will grow from that. Growing from MS, the shrooms on one side of the sub aren't even genetic identicals of the ones on the other side so MS>brf>MS>brf is pointless as a breeding method.
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Climbhigher
Spore Hoarder



Registered: 04/13/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Vancouver Island / S. Alb...
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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If spores have aged can that affect the way they colonize? I'm still confused as to why that one syringe sucked so bad. I can accept that it's something I did, but like I said I did another set of cakes at the same time and inoculated with a different syringe. The second syringe was awesome.
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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The problem with this hobby is there's so many things that could go wrong. Poor genetics or sterility, fluctuating temps, hell even outside weather has positively and negatively affected grows. We'd need a detailed writeup with pics to make an accurate assessment of what went wrong.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Genetics question [Re: Myconin]
#21757448 - 06/03/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you couldn't stabilize spores we wouldn't have PE, APE, Redboy, RDU, etc.
Search heterozygosity and read the thread below.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19874615
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Climbhigher
Spore Hoarder



Registered: 04/13/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Vancouver Island / S. Alb...
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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Re: Genetics question [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21757515 - 06/03/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: If you couldn't stabilize spores we wouldn't have PE, APE, Redboy, RDU, etc.
Search heterozygosity and read the thread below.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19874615
I was just going to ask "What about albino strains"...
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fungalf
Stranger


Registered: 10/03/14
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Re: Genetics question [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21757525 - 06/03/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I loved the ape those seemed to be the best ones I and some friends have ever had awesome visuals and just plain awesome looking green caps with whute dots i thought I may have crossed them with the uncut as I mixed up some spawn and put it all together in my incubation chamber it was a good idea i just wish i was able to get a print but like said they are very hard to get one u would be lucky if' u did
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Climbhigher
Spore Hoarder



Registered: 04/13/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Vancouver Island / S. Alb...
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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Re: Genetics question [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21757539 - 06/03/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: If you couldn't stabilize spores we wouldn't have PE, APE, Redboy, RDU, etc.
Search heterozygosity and read the thread below.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19874615
So I guess if you're not carefull you can end out with "inbred" shrooms?
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thebitterbuffalo26
Fartyr



Registered: 04/18/15
Posts: 555
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Holy shit if all that info on that thread is accurate, it's super informative and answers a lot of my questions too!
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Workman is always accurate. I'd put him up there with Paul Stamets.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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