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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: qman]
    #21752402 - 06/02/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
...o



I think he's referring to I like cow poo's thread..




Fair enough, not really up to date on that situation.  I just don't like when people take the attitude that women are eager to abuse the legal system for trivial things.  I don't believe that is generally true, even if it does happen once in a while. 

My main point is that I can relate.  I may be bitchy, and I'm from an area where people aren't especially outgoing, so when people start joking with me out of nowhere sometimes it can catch me off gaurd and I will be like :wtf: and then sometimes I'll walk away and realize they were joking.  It's a little rude, but so is sarcasm/deprecating jokes in many people's opinions.




"I just don't like when people take the attitude that women are eager to abuse the legal system"

Too bad, but the reality is that women abuse the legal and the workforce discipline systems multiple times more than men do today.

Males usually can't be victims when it comes to men vs women physical and verbal altercations, it's a nice weapon to have when a female gets pissed off at a man, for him it's guilty until proven innocent.




Do you have anything to back that up?  Preferably from a non-MRA source if you're trying to convince me.

Another reality is that sexual assaults are often under-reported, and in some placed in the world written off as the fault of the woman.  I think it is suspicious to be so involved in the cause of protecting men from false allegations without acknowledging that sexual assault is a real problem, and by and large women are the main victims.

I mean if someone can say that white people are the main victims of racism in America today, I can see how they would think that men suffer more from punishments aimed at sexual offenders than women suffer from actual assaults and harassment.  I'm sure it's just a coincidence that 99% of people with this belief are socially conservative white males.

It's just so clearly confirmation bias to me.  Like I can admit that it is a problem if a woman abuses the legal system in any way, but I balance that with the fact that sexual assault does occur and it is pretty tasteless to accuse every woman who speaks about sexual assault of being a liar. 

That is such an extremely cynical view.  Honestly it is just as bad IMO or worse than all the modern feminists who would accuse all men of taking advantage of women, but for some reason these days it is fashionable to take an extreme viewpoint and not have a balanced view of anything.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21752468 - 06/02/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wish my girl could eat 12 creamy donuts. That means she could easily eat my creamy stuff no problem


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #21752483 - 06/02/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)



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Offlineqman
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21752504 - 06/02/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
...o



I think he's referring to I like cow poo's thread..




Fair enough, not really up to date on that situation.  I just don't like when people take the attitude that women are eager to abuse the legal system for trivial things.  I don't believe that is generally true, even if it does happen once in a while. 

My main point is that I can relate.  I may be bitchy, and I'm from an area where people aren't especially outgoing, so when people start joking with me out of nowhere sometimes it can catch me off gaurd and I will be like :wtf: and then sometimes I'll walk away and realize they were joking.  It's a little rude, but so is sarcasm/deprecating jokes in many people's opinions.




"I just don't like when people take the attitude that women are eager to abuse the legal system"

Too bad, but the reality is that women abuse the legal and the workforce discipline systems multiple times more than men do today.

Males usually can't be victims when it comes to men vs women physical and verbal altercations, it's a nice weapon to have when a female gets pissed off at a man, for him it's guilty until proven innocent.




Do you have anything to back that up?  Preferably from a non-MRA source if you're trying to convince me.

Another reality is that sexual assaults are often under-reported, and in some placed in the world written off as the fault of the woman.  I think it is suspicious to be so involved in the cause of protecting men from false allegations without acknowledging that sexual assault is a real problem, and by and large women are the main victims.

I mean if someone can say that white people are the main victims of racism in America today, I can see how they would think that men suffer more from punishments aimed at sexual offenders than women suffer from actual assaults and harassment.  I'm sure it's just a coincidence that 99% of people with this belief are socially conservative white males.

It's just so clearly confirmation bias to me.  Like I can admit that it is a problem if a woman abuses the legal system in any way, but I balance that with the fact that sexual assault does occur and it is pretty tasteless to accuse every woman who speaks about sexual assault of being a liar. 

That is such an extremely cynical view.  Honestly it is just as bad IMO or worse than all the modern feminists who would accuse all men of taking advantage of women, but for some reason these days it is fashionable to take an extreme viewpoint and not have a balanced view of anything.




"It is pretty tasteless to accuse every woman who speaks about sexual assault of being a liar"

I agree, who does that?  Or do you just like to put words in my mouth.

"That is such an extremely cynical view"

I agree, again who said every woman is a liar?


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: qman]
    #21752661 - 06/02/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's just a bit of rhetoric.  I guess my main problem is the idea that women are prone to over-reacting in situations like this, and are at fault in some situations because of this.  I think people have a right to be paranoid and cautious in this world, and that shouldn't be mistaken or confused with someone who is being outright dishonest.  Just like a woman might exaggerate events after the fact, a man could try and manipulate the facts to mitigate things that actually did happen. 

It is easy to make light of things that you might perceive as inoffensive or at least within your rights, but some things to consider are that sexual offenders usually progress, and that many if not most people who are victims in this sense do not expect or want to be victims.  This does sorta create a 1984ish atmosphere of thought-crimes, and situations where it is one person's word against another's, but you've also got to realize that a person cannot help if the feel violated and threatened in a given situation.  It is a sticky area, I'm not saying you can't joke about it but I'm just trying to explain why I feel the way I do.

If a person is convicted with insufficient evidence that is an obvious failing of the justice system.  Also the courts are not always conducive towards fairness.  There is not enough resources devoted to rehabilitation which means that the punishments are serve pretty much only as deterrents, which don't really work, so I believe the "corrections" industry is failing in this sense.  I don't think there is anything wrong with someone reporting to the police when they feel victimized or threatened, definitely I would advise anyone who feels like this to talk to someone about it and I resent that the people that do often take flak for it.


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Offlineqman
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21752997 - 06/02/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Here's another college fucking over a male over false rape allegations.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

Even after evidence to the contrary the college still expelled the male student, now he's suing them.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: qman]
    #21753008 - 06/02/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Texas sharpshooter tactics don't prove your assertion that "women abuse the legal and the workforce discipline systems multiple times more than men do today."


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: qman]
    #21753105 - 06/02/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Here's another college fucking over a male over false rape allegations.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

Even after evidence to the contrary the college still expelled the male student, now he's suing them.




You're not really addressing what I'm saying.  I acknowledged it does happen, but I don't think it justifies any sort of negative attitude against modern-day women any more than the prevalence of rape justifies demonizing men, plus he lost this case, soo,

Quote:

In her initial written complaint, Jones said that in the dorm room, the entire encounter was forcible. But in her interview with Kurker and during the hearing, she said the oral sex was initially consensual; then, after Doe boasted about “hooking up” with both her and her roommate, she told him to stop. He refused to do so, she said, according to the hearing transcript.

In his defense, Doe said he was not the kind of person who would do such a thing. But he told the disciplinary board he was so drunk that night he had no memory of the encounter.




Honestly that sounds totally believable to me (the first paragraph) and this is just my personal opinion but I think the type of person who gets so drunk they have no memory is kinda showing they have bad judgement.  How does he even know he is innocent?

That isn't very convincing evidence at all to me.  It's kinda what I'm talking about, pointing out that she had sex with someone else, and reported that she was unsure how to handle it at first.  That is quite common I think and if anything speaks to her believably IMO.


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Offlineqman
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: D.M.T]
    #21753111 - 06/02/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Women abusing restraining orders.
http://restrainingorderabuse.com/what-is-restraining-order-abuse/

"Though lying to obtain a restraining order is a felony offense (perjury), this crime is never prosecuted"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-e-cordell/order-of-protection-and-j_b_974970.html

"85% of protection orders are entered against men, upwards of 90% of those orders are products of tactical divorce considerations"


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Offlineqman
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21753143 - 06/02/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

qman said:
Here's another college fucking over a male over false rape allegations.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

Even after evidence to the contrary the college still expelled the male student, now he's suing them.




You're not really addressing what I'm saying.  I acknowledged it does happen, but I don't think it justifies any sort of negative attitude against modern-day women any more than the prevalence of rape justifies demonizing men, plus he lost this case, soo,

Quote:

In her initial written complaint, Jones said that in the dorm room, the entire encounter was forcible. But in her interview with Kurker and during the hearing, she said the oral sex was initially consensual; then, after Doe boasted about “hooking up” with both her and her roommate, she told him to stop. He refused to do so, she said, according to the hearing transcript.

In his defense, Doe said he was not the kind of person who would do such a thing. But he told the disciplinary board he was so drunk that night he had no memory of the encounter.




Honestly that sounds totally believable to me (the first paragraph) and this is just my personal opinion but I think the type of person who gets so drunk they have no memory is kinda showing they have bad judgement.  How does he even know he is innocent?

That isn't very convincing evidence at all to me.  It's kinda what I'm talking about, pointing out that she had sex with someone else, and reported that she was unsure how to handle it at first.  That is quite common I think and if anything speaks to her believably IMO.




Did you forget this part? "New evidence- a series of text messages the woman sent...after the alleged rape..."It's pretty obvious I wasn't an innocent bystander."  And, she sent text messages inviting him over that same night to "entertain" her- an invitation that resulted in a second sexual encounter".


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OfflineMoxyOx
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: D.M.T]
    #21753153 - 06/02/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Why does it matter what he proves to you or not? You will just find more justification for your own beliefs. And that's all they are, beliefs. None of us know the entire "truth", especially when it comes to social dictates.

Women USUALLY do get the easier hand in life. Men are always told to go easy on the girls and cut them slack and it is culturally implanted into us. Now that I've grown I do not pass easier judgement on women just because of their sex and try to be as fair as possible.

Both ends of yalls spectrum exist. Until you know each party and have heard all sides you cannot pass any judgement on a single instance without being biased. That is what courts are for. And if a college/university does not accept a court's decision, that is extremely UNJUST. That is a problem. If justice is being perverted by the hands of citizens, that is not morally right. Do not try to minimize this shit just because there are bigger issues in the world.

I could give less fucks about a girl that was sexually assaulted in another state because there is NOTHING I can do to understand her situation or possible help her. If that was my sister or cousin I would do everything in my power to hunt that motherfucker down. It's all relative. Everyone should stop speaking in absolutes.


........


Did you stop reading the article moonrock?

In April 2014, however, the expelled student presented the college with new evidence — a series of text messages the woman sent to two other male students immediately after the alleged rape, according to a lawsuit. To one, a dorm counselor, she described the sexual encounter in language that suggested it was consensual and she wrote, “It’s pretty obvi [obvious] I wasn’t an innocent bystander.’’

To the other student, she sent text messages inviting him over later that same night to “entertain” her — an invitation that resulted in a second sexual encounter, according to text messages and an affidavit by the male student. The accuser testified during the disciplinary hearing that she had texted a friend to come over after the alleged attack.

This sounds like the girl who cried rape. Using the forceful dick of the law to get back at someone is dirty.


--------------------
No one behind, no one ahead.
The path the ancients cleared has closed.
And the other path, everyone's path,
easy and wide, goes nowhere.
I am alone and find my way.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: MoxyOx]
    #21753173 - 06/02/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MoxyOx said:
Why does it matter what he proves to you or not? You will just find more justification for your own beliefs. And that's all they are, beliefs. None of us know the entire "truth", especially when it comes to social dictates



It doesn't matter, but when you make claim so bold I would hope you have some sort of statistic to back it up. Unfortunately qman was not able to meet that burden of proof.


I hold beliefs from both sides of the spectrum for what it's worth. Some things women hold the advantage on and others men do.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: qman]
    #21753192 - 06/02/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah well I think alot of judges are pretty loose with restraining orders because they see it as an easy fix for a situation.  I could criticize alot of aspects of this strategy to prevent domestic abuse, and my personal opinion is that the institution of marriage is to blame for this (which the numbers in those article seem to support) but other than anecdotes and speculation what evidence is there that the majority of these restraining orders are fraudulent? 

It seems to have just made the statements that

A. There are more restraining orders than there used to be (domestic violence used to be considered tolerable behavior, and restraining orders didn't always exist for instances like that, so of course) 

B.  Most restraining orders are issues against men (Do you want to slightly adknowledge potential reasoning behind this that does not rely solely on the supposed poor character of women?)

C.  False allegations happen  (of course they do, I think probably for every crime imaginable.  Unfortunately that is the world we live in, but I would say actual crimes are usually more common than false allegations of crimes)

And of course we are supposed to draw from that men are the real victims when it comes to sexual assault, because feminism already got everything it wanted and now the tables have turned on men and feminists have gained an unfair advantage in the male-dominated legislative/judicial systems.


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/02/15 03:11 PM)


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: qman]
    #21753229 - 06/02/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

Did you forget this part? "New evidence- a series of text messages the woman sent...after the alleged rape..."It's pretty obvious I wasn't an innocent bystander."  And, she sent text messages inviting him over that same night to "entertain" her- an invitation that resulted in a second sexual encounter".




I'm not sure but I think you're confused.  She had sex with another different male student after, who said she seemed ok.  I don't think that means she wasn't raped by the first one.  The first message I don't even really understand, if she was an innocent bystander obviously she couldn't be raped, so we can rule out that she wasn't an innocent bystander.  "Innocent" could mean many things as this is not a court document it is a txt msg. 

The rules at least for many colleges these days are that affirmative consent must be obtained, and can also be retracted, which if is what happened he is liable for his actions, whether he remembers them or not.  To me this has always kind of been the obvious social contract which provides the foundation for laws protecting people, even though when taken to a logical extreme it seems kinda ridiculous.  I'm sorry but a lack of self control does not excuse criminal behavior.


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #21753233 - 06/02/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

that was fast.

less than 2 pages and it's already a "feminism is destroying america vs shut the fuck up misogynist" argument.

impressive.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21753240 - 06/02/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Restraining orders are a joke. If someone wants to harm you they're going to do it restraining order or not. It also depends where you live on how easy a restraining order is given. In Kentucky as this case (and some others) demonstrated, it isn't really that easy to get one.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/news-northern-kentucky/could-protection-order-have-prevented-ft-thomas-shooting/21406818


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21753242 - 06/02/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:smirk: sorry I didn't mean to ruin this amazing story for you, feel free to discuss it at length


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21753245 - 06/02/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
that was fast.

less than 2 pages and it's already a "feminism is destroying america vs shut the fuck up misogynist" argument.

impressive.



Whenever females are mentioned that's how it will go. The men of the Shroomery seem to have deep underlying issues with females. It's unfortunate really.


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: D.M.T] * 1
    #21753264 - 06/02/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
:smirk: sorry I didn't mean to ruin this amazing story for you, feel free to discuss it at length



Can't we go back to making jokes about girls not thinking we're funny and buying more donuts than they really need?

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
that was fast.

less than 2 pages and it's already a "feminism is destroying america vs shut the fuck up misogynist" argument.

impressive.



Whenever females are mentioned that's how it will go. The men of the Shroomery seem to have deep underlying issues with females. It's unfortunate really.




I find a depressing amount of truth in that statement.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: some bitches just can't take a joke v. donut shop [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21753341 - 06/02/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I honestly consider myself pretty moderate, I'm really only a feminist by comparison.  I didn't tell anyone to shut up, and I appreciate that qman is civil and seriously doubt that he mistreats women in any way. 

I like to debate things like this, which is why I do it.  I don't think that this thread is a gender issue, which kind of was part of my original point, so if nobody wants me to elaborate more on my ideas I'll cut it here.


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