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WAN
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Predatory pricing by big businesses
#21749690 - 06/01/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello. I am sure most of you guys have heard of big businesses (Walmart, for one) that engage in things like predatory pricing. A brief definition: basically company setting the pricing of goods or services at such a low level that other suppliers cannot compete and are forced to leave the market. And later after all the competitors (usually small-scale, mom-and-pop types of stores) go out of business, said company then raise the prices back up.
Now, questions:
1. How should we change our laws as to stop this kind of abuse? 2. Should we, though? I ask this question to those of you who believe in the magical hand of the free market, saying how everything will auto-correct without government intervention.
Thanks.
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Skellies


Registered: 06/02/15
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: WAN]
#21751666 - 06/02/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm assuming were talkin' US right?
A common critique of capitalism is that the "end goal" will inevitably lead to a monopoly. Eventually one organization will be able to out compete all others. I've heard a lot of proposals intended to prevent this or arguments against it even happening. Currently the FTC (federal trade commission) is responsible for enforcing antitrust legislation to ensure that no organization gains an extremely large market share. I've heard arguments defending monopolies before too. It's not possible for an entity to raise prices too much or else no-one buys their stuff and someone will find a way to provide it for less money. I'm not sure that convinces me so much but take it where you will.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: Skellies]
#21752173 - 06/02/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There have been very few examples of natural monopolies that have existed in the market. Almost every single one of them has been directly caused by business and government intermingling. So i disagree that the "end goal" of capitalism is monopoly.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Stonehenge
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: WAN]
#21753950 - 06/02/15 05:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Govt needs to keep its meddling nose out of things. Those "mom and pop" stores that close and people cry over are badly run which is why they can't compete. They would rather pay $4 for something, mark it up to $15 and sell one or two a year. Walmart pays $3 for the same thing, sells it for $6 and sells hundreds a year.
Which do you want to buy from, the mom and pop store who is trying to rape you or the big chain that is making less but selling a ton?
>And later after all the competitors (usually small-scale, mom-and-pop types of stores) go out of business, said company then raise the prices back up.
I see no price increases at wallyworld, just normal inflation. If they tried the greedy tactics of the small stores they would drive away their customers and wm's competitors would eat their lunch, places like target, kmart, and others.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: Stonehenge]
#21755138 - 06/02/15 10:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Govt needs to keep its meddling nose out of things. Those "mom and pop" stores that close and people cry over are badly run which is why they can't compete. They would rather pay $4 for something, mark it up to $15 and sell one or two a year. Walmart pays $3 for the same thing, sells it for $6 and sells hundreds a year.
More like Walmart pays $3 for same thing, and sells it for $4, while the mom and pop stores buy it for $4.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Govt needs to keep its meddling nose out of things. Those "mom and pop" stores that close and people cry over are badly run which is why they can't compete. They would rather pay $4 for something, mark it up to $15 and sell one or two a year. Walmart pays $3 for the same thing, sells it for $6 and sells hundreds a year.
More like Walmart pays $3 for same thing, and sells it for $4, while the mom and pop stores buy it for $4.
No, because there are many expenses in running a large operation. They have to pay help, utilities, cost of the building and so on. They may not sell it for $6, that was just an example. They may sell it for $5, $7 or some other figure. They have to make some markup to cover the many expenses they have. Each store may pay over $10,000 a month in electricity alone.
Answer the question:
>Which do you want to buy from, the mom and pop store who is trying to rape you or the big chain that is making less but selling a ton?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: Stonehenge]
#21757626 - 06/03/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Govt needs to keep its meddling nose out of things. Those "mom and pop" stores that close and people cry over are badly run which is why they can't compete. They would rather pay $4 for something, mark it up to $15 and sell one or two a year. Walmart pays $3 for the same thing, sells it for $6 and sells hundreds a year.
That's not always how it works though. Walmart can afford to sell things at a loss for a while just to drive competition out of town. Small business can't afford to lower their prices that much, so they close down. When the competition is gone, Walmart basically has a monopoly and can set prices accordingly.
Quote:
Which do you want to buy from, the mom and pop store who is trying to rape you or the big chain that is making less but selling a ton?
I know many of the people who run local stores in my area, and they aren't trying to "rape" me. I often prefer to shop there, even if the prices are slightly higher. I know other people who feel differently. More factors go into choosing where to shop than price alone.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21758736 - 06/03/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Walmart benefits from scale. It is a simple economic concept. Walmart is a boon to consumers because their prices are lower than other retailers because they buy in much higher volume and get lower prices. They also have much larger real estate and thus get better deals on rent. Tough shit for their competition. Consumers win and by consumers I mean people who are not rich. Rich people do not shop at Walmart.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: zappaisgod]
#21758986 - 06/03/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Walmart benefits from scale. It is a simple economic concept. Walmart is a boon to consumers because their prices are lower than other retailers because they buy in much higher volume and get lower prices. They also have much larger real estate and thus get better deals on rent. Tough shit for their competition. Consumers win and by consumers I mean people who are not rich. Rich people do not shop at Walmart.
This is true, read it and weep, leftists. I think most of you shop at wm but like to bad mouth it on the internet. I go there now and then, I shop where I get the best deals unless I have to drive too far. I order from amazon and ebay too, no driving.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: Stonehenge]
#21759618 - 06/03/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Walmart benefits from scale. It is a simple economic concept. Walmart is a boon to consumers because their prices are lower than other retailers because they buy in much higher volume and get lower prices. They also have much larger real estate and thus get better deals on rent. Tough shit for their competition.
This is true, read it and weep, leftists.
I agree with that part.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Consumers win and by consumers I mean people who are not rich.
No, consumers don't win.
- Walmart stores destroy almost three local jobs for every two they create. - Walmart cost America an estimated 196,000 jobs as a result of importing from China. - Walmart pays significantly less money than other retail firms. - Each Walmart store costs taxpayers an estimated $1 million in public assistance usage by employees.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: zappaisgod]
#21759697 - 06/03/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Walmart benefits from scale. It is a simple economic concept. Walmart is a boon to consumers because their prices are lower than other retailers because they buy in much higher volume and get lower prices. They also have much larger real estate and thus get better deals on rent. Tough shit for their competition. Consumers win and by consumers I mean people who are not rich. Rich people do not shop at Walmart.
They are better for consumers in terms of price, I agree. But if they drive out their competition and create a monopoly, that isn't good for consumers.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Fal, an obvious hate walmart page is proof of nothing.
>- Walmart stores destroy almost three local jobs for every two they create.
Are you saying it takes 3 jobs by inept competitors to sell the same number of goods wm sells with 2 jobs? Who is paying for that extra job that seems not to be needed? The public of course. You want the public to pay for an unneeded job. If there is any truth to it which is doubtful.
>- Walmart cost America an estimated 196,000 jobs as a result of importing from China.
Correction, the public chooses to buy Chinese junk, wm has never said buy chink junk and not usa junk. Now you blame the public's buying habits on a store chain. Look around, see how much usa made goods are in other stores including little ones.
>- Walmart pays significantly less money than other retail firms.
They pay what people are willing to work for. If other jobs paid more, people would work there so your argument is obviously invalid.
>- Each Walmart store costs taxpayers an estimated $1 million in public assistance usage by employees.
Estimated by whom? More nonsense. I suppose now you think wm is responsible for the welfare state and not your beloved left wing kooks? Lets blame wm for us being in Iraq and other countries where we don't belong. Lets blame them for obumblecare and drug laws. For your information, small stores often pay min wage, wm pays more than that and benefits too.
You can't blame all our problems on wm, which is what you are trying to do. Without wm we would buy the same Chinese crap, still have lots of unemployment from obumble's policies, and the average consumer would be paying higher prices and have less money in his pocket. You want the long suffering consumer to pay even more and get less.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Shins
Fun guy



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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: Stonehenge]
#21761146 - 06/04/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Also OPs theory is interesting and all but in teality wallmart does not, and has never had a monopoly. So basically the OP is full of shit.
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qman
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#21761220 - 06/04/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Fal, an obvious hate walmart page is proof of nothing.
>- Walmart stores destroy almost three local jobs for every two they create.
Are you saying it takes 3 jobs by inept competitors to sell the same number of goods wm sells with 2 jobs? Who is paying for that extra job that seems not to be needed? The public of course. You want the public to pay for an unneeded job. If there is any truth to it which is doubtful.
>- Walmart cost America an estimated 196,000 jobs as a result of importing from China.
Correction, the public chooses to buy Chinese junk, wm has never said buy chink junk and not usa junk. Now you blame the public's buying habits on a store chain. Look around, see how much usa made goods are in other stores including little ones.
>- Walmart pays significantly less money than other retail firms.
They pay what people are willing to work for. If other jobs paid more, people would work there so your argument is obviously invalid.
>- Each Walmart store costs taxpayers an estimated $1 million in public assistance usage by employees.
Estimated by whom? More nonsense. I suppose now you think wm is responsible for the welfare state and not your beloved left wing kooks? Lets blame wm for us being in Iraq and other countries where we don't belong. Lets blame them for obumblecare and drug laws. For your information, small stores often pay min wage, wm pays more than that and benefits too.
You can't blame all our problems on wm, which is what you are trying to do. Without wm we would buy the same Chinese crap, still have lots of unemployment from obumble's policies, and the average consumer would be paying higher prices and have less money in his pocket. You want the long suffering consumer to pay even more and get less.
"Without wm we would buy the same Chinese crap"
Not if we put tariffs on it, Wal-Mart is the result of horrible economic policies, not the cause.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: qman] 1
#21762710 - 06/04/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Walmart is the result of sound economic policies. Protectionism is not sound economic policy. Neither is Luddism. The Walmart whiners would have us smash windows to keep glaziers employed
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: zappaisgod]
#21762862 - 06/04/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Walmart is the result of sound economic policies. Protectionism is not sound economic policy. Neither is Luddism. The Walmart whiners would have us smash windows to keep glaziers employed
I agree. Walmart is great. Mom and pop shops are crap. The average american consumes more now than 20 or 40 years ago. More energy, more food, bigger house, more cars, etc. This is a result of market economics and trade, not protectionism. Protectionism brings poverty.
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qman
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: DieCommie] 1
#21763112 - 06/04/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Walmart is the result of sound economic policies. Protectionism is not sound economic policy. Neither is Luddism. The Walmart whiners would have us smash windows to keep glaziers employed
I agree. Walmart is great. Mom and pop shops are crap. The average american consumes more now than 20 or 40 years ago. More energy, more food, bigger house, more cars, etc. This is a result of market economics and trade, not protectionism. Protectionism brings poverty.
More consumption is based on productivity and technology gains, not globalization.
"Protectionism brings poverty"
Really? So shipping good manufacturing jobs out of the US and then buying the product from a third world economy creates prosperity? 
Why has every developed economy in the world fallen on its ass the past 25 years? Because of globalization.
Globalization has helped only one part of the economy, the top 1/100 of 1%.
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psyconaught
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: DieCommie]
#21763127 - 06/04/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Walmart is great
agree with this
Quote:
Mom and pop shops are crap
completely disagree with this. Mom and Pop shops are the backbone of this country. How do you think walmart began? I'll give you a hint:
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Stonehenge
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: qman]
#21763149 - 06/04/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you like things now, you will love them after obummer gets his tpp and ttip trade agreements. There is a good reason why its secret, its because its so full of crap the public would rise up if they found out. They plan to keep it under wraps and by the time the evil details are known, people will be too worn out to protest very much. They treat us like mushrooms.
The wm whiners want us to pay top dollar to incompetent retailers who sell the same Chinese crap, pay low wages and have poor service.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
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Re: Predatory pricing by big businesses [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#21763182 - 06/04/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: If you like things now, you will love them after obummer gets his tpp and ttip trade agreements. There is a good reason why its secret, its because its so full of crap the public would rise up if they found out. They plan to keep it under wraps and by the time the evil details are known, people will be too worn out to protest very much. They treat us like mushrooms.
The wm whiners want us to pay top dollar to incompetent retailers who sell the same Chinese crap, pay low wages and have poor service.
We got people in this thread trying to tell us buying shit from China creates economic prosperity , that's total nonsense BS.
There's a dam good reason why they are keeping the details of the TPP secret, it's going to fuck over the majority of the US working class, global trade agreements are NOT good for the US worker or consumer.
How did NAFTA work out for the US middle class after 20 years? A fucking disaster.
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