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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: drr]
#21995790 - 07/25/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
drr said: I thought I'd post this here, since this is basically the kratom thread.
I've given up kratom for good. I feel it is bad for my heart. I was using it daily for about a year and I started to have terrible anxiety attacks with chest pain. I gave up all drugs for a couple months, including pot and alcohol, as anything I took seemed to make me anxious.
A few months later, I had stopped having panic attacks and chest pain, was eating healthy and getting some exercise and smoking pot again with no issues. I decided to try kratom again. The first day was fine. I waited a couple days then took some again (my tolerance at this point was so low I barely needed any). This time, about 4-5 hours after taking it, I experienced chest pain. It went away after stretching for a few minutes. I tried again a few days later and again experienced chest pains about 4 hours in, and it led to an anxiety attack which was not fun.
It's really unfortunate because I too suffer from social anxiety and this seemed like my wonder drug, I absolutely loved it. But I think it really is damaging to my heart.
I did some internet research and did manage to find one study that showed some sort of harmful action of one of the active components on heart tissue somehow. I don't remember where or the details but it's out there somewhere. I don't know what to believe, if this is all just a coincidence or if it was the kratom. I'm going to be getting health insurance benefits from my job in a couple months so then I will be able to go to the doctor and get my heart checked out and everything. But for the most part if I abstain from kratom I've had no issues. Maybe certain people are susceptible to it and I'm one of them? Maybe it's all a coincidence and the kratom has nothing to do with it? But I even ate some MDA and 4-aco-dmt last weekend with no problems. I'm afraid to try eating kratom again. I gave the rest of my stash to a friend. It makes me sad because I felt like I found my new favorite drug. For a while I cut way back on smoking pot and was just eating kratom, and I felt so much more productive, and it gave me great energy in the morning. But I'm not going to take it anymore, guess it's just not meant to be.
It's possible I've experienced heart/lung "problems" which could be any number of things even caffeine though. Also you must consider the reverse placebo effect. Meaning if you think it's causing something just the thought of thinking that can cause something. I think it's called the Nocebo effect.
I'd experience them sometimes before kratom though. They seem to have gotten worse a few months ago then quit. I go years without having them then I get a random pain in chest/lung area. It sounds really bad but doesn't seem to actually effect me. I've been doing cardiovascular exercise lately and I think that's what my real problem was. I'm young and in shape but when it comes to long distance stuff I use to get winded in a second. I've really been trying to do some endurance running/biking once in a while and I don't get the pains any more.
-------------------- It's all for the s
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daz01
Learning


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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: drr]
#21995970 - 07/25/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
drr said: I thought I'd post this here, since this is basically the kratom thread.
I've given up kratom for good. I feel it is bad for my heart. I was using it daily for about a year and I started to have terrible anxiety attacks with chest pain. I gave up all drugs for a couple months, including pot and alcohol, as anything I took seemed to make me anxious.
A few months later, I had stopped having panic attacks and chest pain, was eating healthy and getting some exercise and smoking pot again with no issues. I decided to try kratom again. The first day was fine. I waited a couple days then took some again (my tolerance at this point was so low I barely needed any). This time, about 4-5 hours after taking it, I experienced chest pain. It went away after stretching for a few minutes. I tried again a few days later and again experienced chest pains about 4 hours in, and it led to an anxiety attack which was not fun.
It's really unfortunate because I too suffer from social anxiety and this seemed like my wonder drug, I absolutely loved it. But I think it really is damaging to my heart.
I did some internet research and did manage to find one study that showed some sort of harmful action of one of the active components on heart tissue somehow. I don't remember where or the details but it's out there somewhere. I don't know what to believe, if this is all just a coincidence or if it was the kratom. I'm going to be getting health insurance benefits from my job in a couple months so then I will be able to go to the doctor and get my heart checked out and everything. But for the most part if I abstain from kratom I've had no issues. Maybe certain people are susceptible to it and I'm one of them? Maybe it's all a coincidence and the kratom has nothing to do with it? But I even ate some MDA and 4-aco-dmt last weekend with no problems. I'm afraid to try eating kratom again. I gave the rest of my stash to a friend. It makes me sad because I felt like I found my new favorite drug. For a while I cut way back on smoking pot and was just eating kratom, and I felt so much more productive, and it gave me great energy in the morning. But I'm not going to take it anymore, guess it's just not meant to be.
Kratom has been used for hundreds (thousands!?) of years in Asia/Thailand, if it were cardio toxic, I'm sure this would be clearly evident.
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Kratom, WOW *DELETED* [Re: daz01]
#21996074 - 07/25/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by drr
Reason for deletion: A
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: drr] 1
#21996091 - 07/25/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I still find it hard to believe krtom can be hard on the body in any even semi major ways.
People take it daily for YEARS, if it was even remotely hard ont he body I would think we would have cases of livers shutting down or heart attacks.
That being said it is a very diverse plant and people have diverse unique body chemistry so who knows 
I would imagine smoking is harder on the heart though.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Quote:
twelvelookslikeu said: I had a bunch of kratom that was not the best quality and a member suggested i try to make an extract out of it. have not tested it yet http://www.politiquessociales.net/homemade-kratom-extract/
Could you please report back on this thread after you give it a try?
I also have a copious amount of subpar kratom that's been sitting around for months and I had no idea what to do with it. If it's good, I'll definitely make this extract.
Did you follow someone's tek?
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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twelvelookslikeu
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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: kr0nik0]
#21996575 - 07/25/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm about to try it now. I'll let you know. I'm dosing on 2 grams cubes tonight also. Anyone ever take kratom before shrooms? I pretty much followed the instructions from that link but with a lot more water and boiled 3 times
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
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I tried once and threw up, it could have just been from the kratom though or taking too much.
Tea would probably help the cubes go down smoother.
The other night I tried kratom + 50mg of mdma and that was a pretty interesting experience. I did worry a bit about potential weird reactions but it seemed fine.
Though I didn't take too much of either.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


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Quote:
twelvelookslikeu said: I had a bunch of kratom that was not the best quality and a member suggested i try to make an extract out of it. have not tested it yet http://www.politiquessociales.net/homemade-kratom-extract/
I found that link a while back, sounded worth a shot so I suggested it to you since you mentioned you might throw the Kratom away. I have been wondering about your results, looks good. Let us know when you try it
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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Eggtimer
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Quote:
twelvelookslikeu said: I'm about to try it now. I'll let you know. I'm dosing on 2 grams cubes tonight also. Anyone ever take kratom before shrooms? I pretty much followed the instructions from that link but with a lot more water and boiled 3 times
If you get nausea easily don't. Kratom does a similar thing that opiates do and they both can cause bouts of nausea alone but I've found mixing kratom with certain drugs makes it worse. I've got mad tolerance to kratom too. I guess I just tend to get nausea easily if you don't it might not be a problem.
-------------------- It's all for the s
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kr0nik0
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Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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I haven't had the urge to partake in psychedelics while under the influence of Kratom. Reason being that for me, psychedelics are something to appreciate by itself.
Very interested in hearing how you feel from it. I'd imagine the Kratom would take away a lot of the come up energy and anxiety but I also think it would make me dizzy.
Just let me know how it goes.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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twelvelookslikeu
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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: kr0nik0]
#21996636 - 07/25/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok kratom down the hatch. Took 4 grams of the stuff. I'll wait an hour before the shrooms
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
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Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Looking forward to hearing the results later.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: kr0nik0]
#21996729 - 07/25/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
kr0nik0 said: I haven't had the urge to partake in psychedelics while under the influence of Kratom. Reason being that for me, psychedelics are something to appreciate by itself.
Very interested in hearing how you feel from it. I'd imagine the Kratom would take away a lot of the come up energy and anxiety but I also think it would make me dizzy.
Just let me know how it goes.
I tried smoking DMT once after I ate kratom hours before. It was bad. Not only did I feel really sick I felt like I was being examined by entities who were wondering why someone would waste their time showing up high on something like kratom. The sensation that I was going to throw up and probably die was so fucking terrifying. Also I thought the entities were going to punish me or something. I kept thinking I'm so sorry. DMT has never given me any feelings of nausea or terror like that terror I experienced on that trip on it's own.
This is why I don't mix narcotic type drugs with psychedelics any more. Also why I've cut back on my kratom use. Thanks DMT  Although if kratom doesn't actually have any long term health side effects why not use it everyday? I hate my brain it's too fair to every side of things
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kr0nik0
Ole' Salty


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 17,756
Loc: Western Slope, CO
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Yea, I feel like the same thing would happen to me. I use psychedelics as more of a tool and fell as if just taking it to see pretty colors is a waste because they just offer so much more than that.
I don't know if Kratom can be considered a narcotic, but since the the effect is so similar to a low dose of a true opiate, it's very fair to compare it to narcotic painkillers.
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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: kr0nik0]
#21996880 - 07/25/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I want to add that depending on how someone was using kratom it could synergize perhaps with certain things.
I have had decently psychedelic experiences just semi meditating on kratom and cannabis together. I could see how in a ritualistic setting it could go well.
But most people use kratom as a crutch type thing myself included which does not bode well with psychedelics.
Just some food for thought, also there are so many kinds of kratom some are more unique then others.
I have had some that made me feel a bit tripped out as apposed to the more just plain stimulating/ relaxing strains. Dose amount also is important I would imagine.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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DustBunny


Registered: 08/20/14
Posts: 10,404
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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: daz01]
#21996903 - 07/25/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: I want to add that depending on how someone was using kratom it could synergize perhaps with certain things.
I have had decently psychedelic experiences just semi meditating on kratom and cannabis together. I could see how in a ritualistic setting it could go well.
But most people use kratom as a crutch type thing myself included which does not bode well with psychedelics.
Just some food for thought, also there are so many kinds of kratom some are more unique then others.
I have had some that made me feel a bit tripped out as apposed to the more just plain stimulating/ relaxing strains. Dose amount also is important I would imagine.
This is very true if I didn't see kratom as a crutch for myself I would probably would of not of had such a bad time.
When I first started doing kratom it gave me a real "out of it feeling" morphine and other opiates don't. Apparently kratom has some alkaloids that bind to the same respecters that things like K bind too which is why kratom might help with opioid withdraw and have a dissociative feel sometimes.
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twelvelookslikeu
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Well I'm feeling more dizzy than anything. Maybe that was too much. Not the typical kratom feeling more of the energy side less sedation. And it was made with half 50/50 Bali and green Malay.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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Post deleted by FennarioReason for deletion: mhv
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Edited by Lucis (07/25/15 09:31 PM)
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Kratom, WOW [Re: Lucis] 2
#21997630 - 07/25/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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DustBunny said: Cocaine and opium were used for quite a long time, too. Drr is correct that kratom affects our hearts- Evaluation of the Cardiotoxicity of Mitragynine and Its Analogues Using Human Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell-Derived Cardiomyocytes
Thank you for finding this!
Quote:
Our data show that Mitragynine and its analogues, at concentrations close to the plasma levels reported in lethal cases, [16], [23] exert a significant cardiotoxicity by inhibiting hERG current, prolonging APD and inducing arrhythmia.
Anybody with any concern about their heart who is taking kratom, should take this into consideration. Obviously I'm not a doctor. But I know what I felt, and I had to stop because of it.
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