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PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
Posts: 9,981
Loc: Rocky Point R.I
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: bodhisatta]
#21774365 - 06/07/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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But wouldn't a cube that has originated and grown over many years in let's say Texas, do better in a Texas environment than a Thai cube would do in Texas?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PinPornProducer]
#21774392 - 06/07/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: But wouldn't a cube that has originated and grown over many years in let's say Texas, do better in a Texas environment than a Thai cube would do in Texas?
Not neccesarily, its going to still come down to conditions and or random selection during stabilization when heterozygosity was high. We grow mainly indoors now and look for certain things that will randomly exclude and include other traits that are not as easy to see. For instance most vendors look for heavy spore production. Workman has even stated himself that early focus on that tendency has narrowed some domesticated varieties in a less favorable direction. Granted he was discussing mexicana but it still translates.
Lets say that I received a wild print and domesticated it. Given that cubes do not grow in my area at all does that mean it will not be able to thrive under my care of the lineage?
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774440 - 06/07/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
PinPornProducer said: But wouldn't a cube that has originated and grown over many years in let's say Texas, do better in a Texas environment than a Thai cube would do in Texas?
Not neccesarily, its going to still come down to conditions and or random selection during stabilization when heterozygosity was high. We grow mainly indoors now and look for certain things that will randomly exclude and include other traits that are not as easy to see. For instance most vendors look for heavy spore production. Workman has even stated himself that early focus on that tendency has narrowed some domesticated varieties in a less favorable direction. Granted he was discussing mexicana but it still translates.
Lets say that I received a wild print and domesticated it. Given that cubes do not grow in my area at all does that mean it will not be able to thrive under my care of the lineage?
cubes don't grow in the UK, it still fruited in my garden..
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
Posts: 9,981
Loc: Rocky Point R.I
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774456 - 06/07/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know we grow cubes from all over the world indoors, but if I'm growing Thais, Texans and Brazilians in the same environment, would one variety benefit more from the environment than others?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Aero]
#21774465 - 06/07/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Now even with wilds I suspect there might be some tendencies that may be favorable relative to location. But the impact would be so small given how much you have to work with in terms of genetic variation, that its probably moot. If we were trading isolated culture like the gourmet and medicinal guys do then specific isolates may prove better or worse given a specific region. But from my experience at that point the thought isn't that you can't grow certain species in certain regions, more that you just need to try a different isolate.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21774472 - 06/07/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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nice grow pf!
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PinPornProducer]
#21774478 - 06/07/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: I know we grow cubes from all over the world indoors, but if I'm growing Thais, Texans and Brazilians in the same environment, would one variety benefit more from the environment than others?
i use the same environment for all cubes. i will feed ape far more water than other cubes. they suck it up like a sponge.
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: eatyualive]
#21774490 - 06/07/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
PinPornProducer said: I know we grow cubes from all over the world indoors, but if I'm growing Thais, Texans and Brazilians in the same environment, would one variety benefit more from the environment than others?
i use the same environment for all cubes. i will feed ape far more water than other cubes. they suck it up like a sponge.
i noticed this with ape, they love water
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PinPornProducer]
#21774494 - 06/07/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: I know we grow cubes from all over the world indoors, but if I'm growing Thais, Texans and Brazilians in the same environment, would one variety benefit more from the environment than others?
I doubt it. At least not on a measureable scale. Isolation would solve any issues far faster than picking a different variety. Which brings it all full circle. This is why I might be tempted to tell someone that a cube is a cube. The differences we are discussing are very small and even with "stable" varieties the potential is incredibly vast. Even then the number of grows that would need to be done to find the fraction of a percentage of difference isn't worth it.
Some might tend to be faster, some might tend to be bigger. But they all have the same potential. I am more worried about genetics destabilizing than I am about tendencies in one direction or another.
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PinPornProducer
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Registered: 08/23/14
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: eatyualive]
#21774511 - 06/07/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I grow all in the same environment also, but was just curious if some cubes favored certain environments more than others the same way as some cubes fruit better with less spawn. My Cambodians would throw out a shit load of mutants until I started trying less spawn, not for mutation reasons but for stretching spawn further and noticed hardly any mutations at all with less spawn/nutrition
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PinPornProducer]
#21774581 - 06/07/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You are probably right, there are things at work. But they are too small to measure for the most part and impossible to qualify. I do think that there is some real potential for great varieties coming up with some of the carefully managed crosses and domesticated wilds that are being worked on. I know that for me the prospect of Mudafucka's PE/KSSS and grainbrains PurpleRustics has me stoked, looking forward to trying those for sure 
But I think Pussyfarts great thread has been derailed enough. I won't say anymore other than great grow PF
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: bodhisatta]
#21774679 - 06/07/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: If pe were a unique species muda's ksss PE varietal hybrid wouldn't have been so easy. Neither PE6.
I didn't say that it's a different species. I just said that I tend to consider it as a different species. It's still a huge mystery and I hope that somebody in the future will solve it.
Quote:
Most varieties are impossible to tell apart more but more than a few are distinct.
Care to explain which varieties are easy to tell apart in your opinion?
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Its a big phenotypic variation easy to see, but genetically its just as much variation as there is between other varieties without big visual consequences. They're all 99.9+% similar its that little bit of homozygous tendency in very few genes with a big "visual to human" consequence that throw us off.
No offense man, but you seriously need to polish your English. I am a non-native speaker and I can't understand what you are saying. I read Melville and Poe but I can't fucking read your posts 
Anyway I am a very practical person and I like to simplify things because I am dumb motherfucker. It seems that you agree with me that most cube "varieties" are indistinguishable from one another. Still you keep saying that some of them are different. Forget about PE for a moment and give me some names so we can open a new thread and settle this thing once and for all (and we can't stop hijaking PF's thread ).
Like I said before, I am always eager to learn so if you can teach me something new I am all ears.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PinPornProducer]
#21774696 - 06/07/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: I know we grow cubes from all over the world indoors, but if I'm growing Thais, Texans and Brazilians in the same environment, would one variety benefit more from the environment than others?
Relevant post from an old hand.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: eatyualive]
#21774806 - 06/07/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: nice grow pf!
Thanks
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PussyFart]
#21777066 - 06/08/15 02:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fact: albinos are different. They show some consistency. Most of the times the produce white fruits, true. But does that imply that they are a different variety? Not at all. Albinos are just cubes with a leucistic trait and if you keep print>grow>print this trait will disappear 90% of the times because of random mutation. That's how the albino trait showed up in the first place. That's how evolution works btw.
no it doesnt because of genetic equilibrium. differing genes in the genepool are constantly being reabsorbed into the genepool as a whole the most successful genes more often than others, thus changing ratios of genes in the pool at that time. the ratios will change depending on the situations. thats why we will never lose ginger hair and such things!!
in nature we hardly ever lose traits from a genepool, frequencys change but you never lose them in nature!! we still can find dna that links us to chimps or to cavemen!
only when we as breeders/gods break genetic equilibrium can such things happen, even still it is rare to lose a trait al together. recessives dont behave like that (they can sit hidden for as long as they need untill a matching or allele one that allows it to come forward again) and no a amount of dominant genes removes these or by altering frquencies. they may appear more or less but just try to get rid of it!! think how frequency change each generation... the % will get smaller but never to 0.
its basic genetics of anything!!
even snakes and lizrads with no legs but spurs in the right situation can evolve to have legs again! the information is never lost!! only the dominant expression changes i.e the gene frequency.
even as things evolve the new mutations are accepted into the genepool and if they are succesful will become high in the ratios but if things change can easily go the otherway.
but rarely if ever is the information lost... so it can all come back out again is the situation dictates this will be more successful! this is true evolution it doesnt always move forward plenty of new gains are surrendered again.
evolution is just trial and error literally
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/08/15 02:27 AM)
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LeopardMan
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Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: mustangbob3]
#21777131 - 06/08/15 02:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You got me wrong. Of course this trait never disappears (like ginger hairs in humans, although the problem is a little more complex tbh), I am just saying that the albino trait can indeed disappear for a "generation" or more. Not all albino prints will get you albino fruits.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: LeopardMan]
#21777168 - 06/08/15 03:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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yes  i get what you mean! ...as in the expression may not show itself in the next generation
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: mustangbob3]
#21777176 - 06/08/15 03:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said:
Quote:
Fact: albinos are different. They show some consistency. Most of the times the produce white fruits, true. But does that imply that they are a different variety? Not at all. Albinos are just cubes with a leucistic trait and if you keep print>grow>print this trait will disappear 90% of the times because of random mutation. That's how the albino trait showed up in the first place. That's how evolution works btw.
no it doesnt because of genetic equilibrium. differing genes in the genepool are constantly being reabsorbed into the genepool as a whole the most successful genes more often than others, thus changing ratios of genes in the pool at that time. the ratios will change depending on the situations. thats why we will never lose ginger hair and such things!!
in nature we hardly ever lose traits from a genepool, frequencys change but you never lose them in nature!! we still can find dna that links us to chimps or to cavemen!
only when we as breeders/gods break genetic equilibrium can such things happen, even still it is rare to lose a trait al together. recessives dont behave like that (they can sit hidden for as long as they need untill a matching or allele one that allows it to come forward again) and no a amount of dominant genes removes these or by altering frquencies. they may appear more or less but just try to get rid of it!! think how frequency change each generation... the % will get smaller but never to 0.
its basic genetics of anything!!
even snakes and lizrads with no legs but spurs in the right situation can evolve to have legs again! the information is never lost!! only the dominant expression changes i.e the gene frequency.
even as things evolve the new mutations are accepted into the genepool and if they are succesful will become high in the ratios but if things change can easily go the otherway.
but rarely if ever is the information lost... so it can all come back out again is the situation dictates this will be more successful! this is true evolution it doesnt always move forward plenty of new gains are surrendered again.
evolution is just trial and error literally
Makes a lot of sense. I was just watching a special on dinosaurs yesterday and they were explaining the genetic link to birds. Scientists have been experimenting with bird embryos and turning on dormant genes such as genes that are encoded to grow teeth. Very interesting stuff.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: insanemike]
#21777256 - 06/08/15 04:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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what we see as an expression is only a small amount of the possibility's that is contained.
its all about whats turned on and whats not.
a tv still exists even when its turned off, it may not be preforming a function but it still exists as part of its own system
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Dirty Harry
Go ahead, make my day


Registered: 06/06/15
Posts: 12
Loc: San Francisco
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: mustangbob3]
#21777295 - 06/08/15 04:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Pussyfart I expect better grows and better class from a mod/TC
-------------------- Do you feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?
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