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RPW
Entheogen Cultivator


Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 265
Loc: Nomadic
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: insanemike]
#21768653 - 06/06/15 02:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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God damn, those are some meaty mushrooms
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Looking to trade stamps for: ATL#7, Tampanensis, and Mexicana A-strain prints/syringes Pan. Cyanescens (Especially RDU) prints/syringes Please PM if you have any of these for trade.
Edited by PussyFart (06/06/15 02:18 AM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 17 hours
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: RPW]
#21768696 - 06/06/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, this one surprised me.....
Quote:
PussyFart said: Fruiting Day 8

Fruiting Day 9

Fruiting Day 10

Fruiting Day 11

Fruiting Day 11
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PinPornProducer]
#21768819 - 06/06/15 03:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: Didn't even know you grew anything lol, nice to see you getting busy
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 17 hours
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Buck513]
#21772963 - 06/07/15 06:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said: Fruiting Days 12-13

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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: PussyFart]
#21773104 - 06/07/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Some gnarly looking beasts in there
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Dhearic


Registered: 01/24/14
Posts: 846
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 9 months, 3 days
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21773114 - 06/07/15 08:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Looking good dude. You find that variety to be more hollow or solid in the stipe?
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Credit where credit is due.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Dhearic]
#21773127 - 06/07/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dhearic said:

Looking good dude. You find that variety to be more hollow or solid in the stipe?
So called "varieties" are just labels vendors put on a cube print to sell more products. It's MS, meaning that there are hundreds of strains in that tub
Nice solid grow there btw
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: LeopardMan]
#21773139 - 06/07/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Exactly why MS grows are representative of their varieties the population value of strains is high so it averages out. MS is better to see the variations caused by the limitation of heterozygous gene pools to more homozygous gene pools. Yes its just a name but each variety went through stsbilization. They're all cubes but they all have tendencies that show on average. Like how there's Texas yellow cap and Texas red cap and on average the varieties are starkly different. Though both have the potential for awesome strain isolation, you would have no problem telling the difference between a tub of each side by side.
Stems though are way more temperature related. PE is always thick stems though. Unlike weed though the variety doesn't garuntee anything but the bigger grow you do the better since you'll have a bigger population of strains
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (06/07/15 08:31 AM)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: bodhisatta]
#21773187 - 06/07/15 08:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Exactly why MS grows are representative of their varieties the population value of strains is high so it averages out. MS is better to see the variations caused by the limitation of heterozygous gene pools to more homozygous gene pools. Yes its just a name but each variety went through stsbilization. They're all cubes but they all have tendencies that show on average. Like how there's Texas yellow cap and Texas red cap and on average the varieties are starkly different. Though both have the potential for awesome strain isolation, you would have no problem telling the difference between a tub of each side by side.
Stems though are way more temperature related. PE is always thick stems though. Unlike weed though the variety doesn't garuntee anything but the bigger grow you do the better since you'll have a bigger population of strains
Here you are again. I could swear you were one of those "stabilization" and "yes varieties are just names but" guys.
Nobody can tell which "variety" a cube is just by looking at it. Treasure Coast, Z, B+, whatever they name it. Ask AlanRockefeller if he can. Ask RR if he can. PE is the only exception, and albinos ofc (although countless times an albino print will produce normal fruits. You know why? Because a print is always a fresh start).
I dare you to do this: People will provide their cube grows and you'll tell them which varieties they are. I double dare you.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: LeopardMan]
#21773210 - 06/07/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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PE isn't the only. You wouldn't be telling the difference between most, as most are very subtle if anything.
There are more than a handful that have tendencies that are glaringly obvious though.
ask pastywhyte or workman about their progress on variety stabilization. or alan for that matter... alan's the one who gives me pointers on my microscopy work
betcha could tell pastywhite's new variety from any other cube.
or malabar, which almost always has an intact or semi intact veil at fruit maturity.
but alas almost every variety other than a few of them are extremely similar.
Remember why RR chose Texas variety to cross with PE to make PE6? not because Texas was just like every other cube. he himself said it has the tendencies he liked.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (06/07/15 09:03 AM)
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Dhearic


Registered: 01/24/14
Posts: 846
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 9 months, 3 days
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: bodhisatta]
#21773235 - 06/07/15 09:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Exactly why MS grows are representative of their varieties the population value of strains is high so it averages out. MS is better to see the variations caused by the limitation of heterozygous gene pools to more homozygous gene pools. Yes its just a name but each variety went through stsbilization. They're all cubes but they all have tendencies that show on average. Like how there's Texas yellow cap and Texas red cap and on average the varieties are starkly different. Though both have the potential for awesome strain isolation, you would have no problem telling the difference between a tub of each side by side.
Stems though are way more temperature related. PE is always thick stems though. Unlike weed though the variety doesn't garuntee anything but the bigger grow you do the better since you'll have a bigger population of strains
So colder fruiting temps should, on average, produce fruits with denser stems?
I ask because I've finally started growing a fair amount of strains or varieties or whatever you wanna call it and I'm noticing lots of fun little differences between my tubs.
They're all in the same room fruiting so temps and humidity should be about the same for all of em, at least fairly close.
My B+ always seem to grow in single fruits or sparse clusters and are almost always hollow.
A+ are beautifully white/blue, give me good canopies, but they too are hollow.
My Golden Teachers grow shorter and stockier than the others, and give decent canopies. I really like how solid they are and the deep deep blue they bruise.
My most recent tub, a Mazatapec, gave me my nicest canopy yet but the fruits were beyond tiny. Smallest I've seen since my cake days and they dried out to toothpicks.
I have a Puerto Rican fruiting now and it looks like it's gonna be pretty nice 
I wasn't planning on dealing with micro fruits until I got around to trying out my P. Mexican and ATL #7
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Credit where credit is due.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Dhearic]
#21773251 - 06/07/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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B+ and GT always look very different from grow to grow. ideally you want to keep the first spore print and always go back to an earliest generation spore print rather than keeping on taking new spore prints with each grow. which can lead your GT to look very different over time than someone else. regardless GT and B+ are bad examples for little differences they're always very different even if you have two tubs next to each other.
but for me temperature makes way more of a difference on stems than anything else I have ever seen. my old apartment I was always at 62-65F most of the time. really thick cubes.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: LeopardMan]
#21773255 - 06/07/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think that cubes are cubes is an oversimplifycation. I also think that environmental conditions play a big role in how a fruit looks. But as bodhi said, there are traits in some lineages that seem to be pretty common. Rust spores, leucisim, albinism and of course the PE are good areas to start. But even KSSS which displays none of those traits is often pretty easy to spot. Some classic cube varieties do exhibit fairly consistant growth patterns. The consistency of these things among other growers leads me to believe that its not just as simple as a reset when you go back to the print. I also now feel that lineage and care of said lineage is important as well.
As for albinism not always delivering albinos, there are good reasons for that. Stability of the master line seems to be a big one. APE has never failed to deliver albinos for me. I suspect its due to how the line was developed (who stabilized the initial tendencies when hetrozygosity was still high is as important as anything). Anyone who has attempted to cross to varieties each with reccessive traits will know first hand how much care needs to be taken to get both phenotypes stabilized and what an impressive range is first available. I know I was shocked by my results initially.
However its a lot easier to get a noob off on his tangent fueled by vendors BS back on the right track by telling him cubes are cubes and to use agar. But it does ignore a large facet of the genetics involved and is in essence a gross oversimplifycation IMO.
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21773285 - 06/07/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I think that cubes are cubes is an oversimplifycation. I also think that environmental conditions play a big role in how a fruit looks. But as bodhi said, there are traits in some lineages that seem to be pretty common. Rust spores, leucisim, albinism and of course the PE are good areas to start. But even KSSS which displays none of those traits is often pretty easy to spot. Some classic cube varieties do exhibit fairly consistant growth patterns. The consistency of these things among other growers leads me to believe that its not just as simple as a reset when you go back to the print. I also now feel that lineage and care of said lineage is important as well.
As for albinism not always delivering albinos, there are good reasons for that. Stability of the master line seems to be a big one. APE has never failed to deliver albinos for me. I suspect its due to how the line was developed (who stabilized the initial tendencies when hetrozygosity was still high is as important as anything). Anyone who has attempted to cross to varieties each with reccessive traits will know first hand how much care needs to be taken to get both phenotypes stabilized and what an impressive range is first available. I know I was shocked by my results initially.
However its a lot easier to get a noob off on his tangent fueled by vendors BS back on the right track by telling him cubes are cubes and to use agar. But it does ignore a large facet of the genetics involved and is in essence a gross oversimplifycation IMO.
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21773306 - 06/07/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I think that cubes are cubes is an oversimplifycation. I also think that environmental conditions play a big role in how a fruit looks. But as bodhi said, there are traits in some lineages that seem to be pretty common. Rust spores, leucisim, albinism and of course the PE are good areas to start. But even KSSS which displays none of those traits is often pretty easy to spot. Some classic cube varieties do exhibit fairly consistant growth patterns. The consistency of these things among other growers leads me to believe that its not just as simple as a reset when you go back to the print. I also now feel that lineage and care of said lineage is important as well.
As for albinism not always delivering albinos, there are good reasons for that. Stability of the master line seems to be a big one. APE has never failed to deliver albinos for me. I suspect its due to how the line was developed (who stabilized the initial tendencies when hetrozygosity was still high is as important as anything). Anyone who has attempted to cross to varieties each with reccessive traits will know first hand how much care needs to be taken to get both phenotypes stabilized and what an impressive range is first available. I know I was shocked by my results initially.
However its a lot easier to get a noob off on his tangent fueled by vendors BS back on the right track by telling him cubes are cubes and to use agar. But it does ignore a large facet of the genetics involved and is in essence a gross oversimplifycation IMO.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21773308 - 06/07/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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noobs will succeed if they want, the old status quo of shroomery was to tell little white lies to make it easier on noobs, or parcel up advanced concepts into grade school speak. Either way I'm not a fan of the little white lie strategy. You can get the calculus right away, it's not going to help you or hurt you growing cubes the only thing getting in the way or not of you being a successful cultivator is you, not the things people type into a web forum. your own research skills will eventually tell you who to listen and not listen to.
One day down the road they all decide you've cultivated enough to be the real deal and you get invited to hang out with a bunch of TCs and other long time cultivators in a private journal away from the BS and talk about those little white lies and dig into the real truths.
I always think of malabar(or even Purple mystic) as a great example of one of the "non exotic" (Rust spores, leucisim, albinism, PE, and KSSS) that's easy to tell apart.
it's interesting to me that the "exotic" cube varieties are not evidence that a "cube is not a cube" since they're "special" but I'll stand with the sentiment that a cube is a cube, as well as a cube is not a cube. depending on the question you ask.
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Dhearic


Registered: 01/24/14
Posts: 846
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 9 months, 3 days
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: bodhisatta]
#21773338 - 06/07/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I think that cubes are cubes is an oversimplifycation. I also think that environmental conditions play a big role in how a fruit looks. But as bodhi said, there are traits in some lineages that seem to be pretty common. Rust spores, leucisim, albinism and of course the PE are good areas to start. But even KSSS which displays none of those traits is often pretty easy to spot. Some classic cube varieties do exhibit fairly consistant growth patterns. The consistency of these things among other growers leads me to believe that its not just as simple as a reset when you go back to the print. I also now feel that lineage and care of said lineage is important as well.
As for albinism not always delivering albinos, there are good reasons for that. Stability of the master line seems to be a big one. APE has never failed to deliver albinos for me. I suspect its due to how the line was developed (who stabilized the initial tendencies when hetrozygosity was still high is as important as anything). Anyone who has attempted to cross to varieties each with reccessive traits will know first hand how much care needs to be taken to get both phenotypes stabilized and what an impressive range is first available. I know I was shocked by my results initially.
However its a lot easier to get a noob off on his tangent fueled by vendors BS back on the right track by telling him cubes are cubes and to use agar. But it does ignore a large facet of the genetics involved and is in essence a gross oversimplifycation IMO.

Quote:
bodhisatta said: noobs will succeed if they want, the old status quo of shroomery was to tell little white lies to make it easier on noobs, or parcel up advanced concepts into grade school speak. Either way I'm not a fan of the little white lie strategy. You can get the calculus right away, it's not going to help you or hurt you growing cubes the only thing getting in the way or not of you being a successful cultivator is you, not the things people type into a web forum. your own research skills will eventually tell you who to listen and not listen to.
One day down the road they all decide you've cultivated enough to be the real deal and you get invited to hang out with a bunch of TCs and other long time cultivators in a private journal away from the BS and talk about those little white lies and dig into the real truths.
I always think of malabar(or even Purple mystic) as a great example of one of the "non exotic" (Rust spores, leucisim, albinism, PE, and KSSS) that's easy to tell apart.
it's interesting to me that the "exotic" cube varieties are not evidence that a "cube is not a cube" since they're "special" but I'll stand with the sentiment that a cube is a cube, as well as a cube is not a cube. depending on the question you ask.

Dropping them knowledge bombs over here....I better be careful before I learn something, it hurt the last time I did that
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Credit where credit is due.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: Dhearic]
#21774212 - 06/07/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Pastywhite is a gentleman so I am more than happy to elaborate further on this and I hope this can help others to find their own "truth" 
I like facts, not speculations. I like it is, not it seems.
Fact: nobody can tell the difference between most cubes "varieties". I think we can agree on this one. If not, please let's open a new thread and show me that I am wrong. I am an open-minded person and if you show me that you can tell the difference between a TC and Mazapetec or whatever name they use, I will apologize and STFU.
Fact: albinos are different. They show some consistency. Most of the times the produce white fruits, true. But does that imply that they are a different variety? Not at all. Albinos are just cubes with a leucistic trait and if you keep print>grow>print this trait will disappear 90% of the times because of random mutation. That's how the albino trait showed up in the first place. That's how evolution works btw.
Fact: Some people are interested in making it look like cube varieties do indeed exist (mainly vendors, who know that more cube varieties=more money). I've been here long enough to know that this is a reality. And this is the main reason why I keep saying that a cube is a cube. Of course new growers love cube varieties, I loved them too. It's exciting but it just isn't true.
The real mystery is PE. And I don't have an explanation for that, although I tend to consider PE as a different species.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 17 hours
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: LeopardMan]
#21774312 - 06/07/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Random Z Tub Thread....With PIN PORN !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! [Re: LeopardMan]
#21774319 - 06/07/15 02:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If pe were a unique species muda's ksss PE varietal hybrid wouldn't have been so easy. Neither PE6. Most varieties are impossible to tell apart more but more than a few are distinct. Its a big phenotypic variation easy to see, but genetically its just as much variation as there is between other varieties without big visual consequences. They're all 99.9+% similar its that little bit of homozygous tendency in very few genes with a big "visual to human" consequence that throw us off.
We can't admit to PE being just a regular cube because of its distinct differences but its only different by our human standard. Its still just a cube too but its varietal differences are boss
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