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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
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Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #21748356 - 06/01/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

heres an example of shifting responsibility -

light is not the most important stimuli that decides directional growth in our mushrooms but it plays in a trio with wind and gravity, wind being the most important factor followed closely by light and lastly gravity.
  However if any of the trio are removed from the equation the responsibility shifts to the next most important and remaining stimuli.



Quote:

BADHAM, EDMOND R

Tropisms in the mushroom Psilocybe cubensis.

Mycologia; Vol. 74 (1982) p 275-?

The growth of the mushroom Psilocybe cubensis was studied in a wind tunnel under controlled conditions of wind velocity, humidity, temperature,and light. The basidiocarp stipe grew into the wind up to the time of spore formation. When rotated with the long axis of the stipe perpendicular to the wind, fruit-bodies grew upright. When spores began to be formed a negative geo-tropic curvature of the stipe occurred but no recurvation occurred in a sporeless mutant.



This next experiment shows how you can confuse the mushrooms with these stimuli-



Quote:

as an experiment, you can put the light above and a fan blowing from right to left.  Watch what happens.

In the absence of any wind, the mushrooms grow towards the light.  You can also screw with your mushrooms if you're bored.  Every morning, rotate your trays of pinning/fruiting mushrooms by 90 degrees, and leave them until the next morning, then rotate them an additional 90 degrees.  They'll grow up in a spiral. :smile:
RR






This next experiment shows what happens if wind is removed from the equation, and its left to light and gravity(it chooses light over gavity)-


Quote:


Mushrooms will orient their caps toward light.  They are deriving energy from the light and position themselves to get maximum benefit.

What mushrooms do not need is light to 'tell' them which way to grow.  They'll grow opposite gravity in total darkness.

Here's a picture of penis envy which was turning toward a light source near the floor for exactly this kind of demonstration.
RR






and we all know that if there is no wind and no light they use gravity and grow straight up.

you see how responsibility's can shift if other stimuli is missing( i.e light) this same shift happens when subs pin in the dark, its because of a shift in responsability as the main usaul stimuli/triggers are missing!!


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 01:41 PM)


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
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Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21748366 - 06/01/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I cannot prove that they cannot.....that was never my argument.....they can pin after full colonization plus consolidation without any other parameters....mainly because the number one parameter for pinning is full colonization......This usually only happens with BRF cakes/bulk subs tho....I have never seen a grain jar knot/pin without given FAE...light has nothing to do with it, but the mycellium does benefit from the light, and I'm sure it helps.




and first thing you replied to me...



Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
light will trigger the formation of hyphal knots in a bag or jar long before any FAE is given!!





you said...


Quote:

No it won't......




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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21748374 - 06/01/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
Quote:

In fact, knots never form in my jars.....




yes i bet u dont do pftek and consolidate thats why!

think back when you did i bet u birthed jars with pins on it never mind knots lol and with out contams present too! its not uncommon to birth brf jars after consolidation with pins and hundreds of knots.
your so wrong lol

if you consolidate grains you will see knots!!




ask any pf tek grower and im sure they birthed hundreds cakes with knots and also the odd pin too, happens all the time!
without FAE!!!

now put them same jars in dark and never see light most will sit happily and not knot or anything unless bacteria is present the the odd 1 may pin invitro

you see minority vs majority..
its a wide gap not even close
light is the only difference


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 01:06 PM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21748419 - 06/01/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

you seem a bit confused bob, Pf says it will pin even without light,
and you ask him to prove that they WONT pin.

also, "consolidated" grains normally wont start knotting. Leaving the colonized jar around for months is considered "consolidating".

Why don't you run a setup with some jars in the dark and some in the light and show how the ones given light has better pinsets?
I've never seen it happen, and you're the first I've seen in a long time who claims it does..

AND, maybe let OP have his thread back :lol:


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: spacechildo]
    #21748452 - 06/01/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

when did i say it leads to better pinsets??

i was only comparing the minimal fruits if a tub recieved no light ever compared with ones that do!!

what i did say is when colonised in light and consolidated there is more hyphal knots present and that when the other fruiting parameters is set (fae ect) this creates the conditions to allow the knots to turn into pins!!

the amount of pins will rely on the individual conditions in the tub not the amount of knots!!
as i already said not all knots become pins... and its just common sense that if there is more knots then you introduce fruiting parameters there will be more available potential sites to go on to make pins if conditions are correct.

but amount and location  of pins ultimatly will be  conditions :thumbup:

see what im saying?


--------------------



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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: spacechildo]
    #21748461 - 06/01/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
you seem a bit confused bob, Pf says it will pin even without light,
and you ask him to prove that they WONT pin.

also, "consolidated" grains normally wont start knotting. Leaving the colonized jar around for months is considered "consolidating".

Why don't you run a setup with some jars in the dark and some in the light and show how the ones given light has better pinsets?
I've never seen it happen, and you're the first I've seen in a long time who claims it does..

AND, maybe let OP have his thread back :lol:




i was pointing out the different amount from each group, u mis read...

i mean say... 9/10 in light will knot after consolidated
and          1/10 in dark will do the same

look at the vast difference in the two groups with only a change in light!!
that speaks volumes.

i will leave the thread to OP.

I only responded as pf responded saying that knots dont form in jars!!


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 01:25 PM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21748516 - 06/01/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't see the groups I just see your text :shrug:

pinning trigger doesn't mean bigger fruits, it means creating pins.

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
light will trigger the formation of hyphal knots in a bag or jar long before any FAE is given!!





this is wrong.

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
lighting is a primary trigger imo, and should not be overlooked (controvercial i know)




and this is wrong.

If your experience differ feel free to show me the side-by-side pics :shrug:


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: spacechildo]
    #21748618 - 06/01/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


I don't see the groups I just see your text :shrug:

pinning trigger doesn't mean bigger fruits, it means creating pins.





the fuck u reading??? i never mentioned fruit size??

how can you tell me my opinion is wrong?
i gave evidence to what i base it on!!
its my opinion like i said from the start.

your the one who needs prove different if your trying to persuade me my opinion is wrong!

im not going to change it till you give me a solid reason to why its wrong..
just you saying it is without being able to back it up is not enough for me sorry.

mostly your twisting my words and down right just reading what you want seriously!! are we reading the same thing!!
most of what you say i never mentioned
pinsets?? bigger fruit??? idont understand what your reading mate because in all i wrote i never said anything about light improving pinset or anything to do with fruit size

and sorry you to are mistaken knots form in jars all the time as do the odd pin... ive birthed and dunked loads with the odd pin!!

and im sure im not the only one who has waited for a monotub to knot up and form its first pin before allowing fae.:smile:


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 02:11 PM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: spacechildo]
    #21748686 - 06/01/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
when did i say it leads to better pinsets??

i was only comparing the minimal fruits if a tub recieved no light ever compared with ones that do!!




either you said it here, or you just contradicted yourself here.
better pinset = higher number of pins which can turn into mushrooms.

This is getting old tho, myc will pin after 100% colonization regardless of light,
the color of your socks or how many marshmallows you can fit in your mouth at once..

Quote:

spacechildo said:
let OP have his thread back :lol:




:whathesaid:


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InvisibleMyconin
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21748691 - 06/01/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
Quote:


I don't see the groups I just see your text :shrug:

pinning trigger doesn't mean bigger fruits, it means creating pins.





the fuck u reading??? i never mentioned fruit size??

how can you tell me my opinion is wrong?
i gave evidence to what i base it on!!
its my opinion like i said from the start.

your the one who needs prove different if your trying to persuade me my opinion is wrong!

im not going to change it till you give me a solid reason to why its wrong..
just you saying it is without being able to back it up is not enough for me sorry.

mostly your twisting my words and down right just reading what you want seriously!! are we reading the same thing!!
most of what you say i never mentioned
pinsets?? bigger fruit??? idont understand what your reading mate because in all i wrote i never said anything about light improving pinset or anything to do with fruit size

and sorry you to are mistaken knots form in jars all the time as do the odd pin... ive birthed and dunked loads with the odd pin!!




We can't be right all the time, just be a man and accept it. You're getting all hot and bothered because two experienced cultivators just proved you wrong, not very mature imo.

But, enough thread jacking. Sorry OP. Hope some of all this was useful to you :thumbup:


--------------------
"No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle
"I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu
"You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt

ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: Myconin]
    #21748723 - 06/01/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

to be honest i think quite the opposite and anyone with a brain can see that.
you can all think knots and pins dont form in jars lol
your all crazy and the ones who know im right wont say a word as they cowards and fear the bully boy tactics that will be metered out to them.


and space i only ever said conditions creates the pinset/better pinset sorry your just plain wrong

do a quick search- heres patsy, kizzle and others saying it happens-

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20301633

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15846654

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15319814#15319814

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15814524#15814524

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15814761#15814761

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17299675#17299675

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12532835#12532835

this is the first page of results using the search function lol
seems not just me lol

and it dont make me immature!!
it makes me mature to stand by my beliefs even when questioned and not be swayed by the first person that says different!!
like i said give me evidence not just your word.
it was space started being bitchy twisting what i said and i only defended my position as i am in this case right!

OP dont take my word for it use the search function and you will find the answers yourself!!
dpnt just take the word of people who clearly twist logic and reason to suit their argument!!
they can talk in absoulute and broad sweeping statements and then when i do the same to defend myself somehow thats not enough and my logic is flawed even if it is a carbon copy representation of their own thought process when they say things like will it pins in the dark!
well i too can say.. well they knot and pin in jars and more so in the light!
this is provable hundreds of times with the search engine, can they do such a thing other than assumption?? where is the threads? the tangible proof?
that dosent come back to a feeling or assumption??
they dont have one thats why they resorted to trying to discredit anything i said by twisting things .. taking sections out and finding fault with them, when the fault arises because the removed the phrase from its group of text and so removing context freeing up room in their favour for ambiguaity .

then space asking me grow in light to prove it!!

we all already colonise and fruit in light and we all know that it causes no ill affects!!

why would i grow to prove what we are both already saying??
strange thing to ask me to do?


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/02/15 12:54 AM)


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Offlinebuttermycoface


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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21748883 - 06/01/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

All this was actually usefull, learned quite a lot about pinning trigers
! Everyone onboard with my plan?


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InvisibleMyconin
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: buttermycoface]
    #21748928 - 06/01/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

buttermycoface said:
I'm new to this hobby and this will be my very first try at cultivating mushrooms.

I just want to run my plan past you experienced blokes to see if I'm getting it. U know?

First I Have 750mL jars that you buy mayonnaise in that I drilled 16mm holes in the centre of the lid.

I'm planning on stuffing the holes super tight with poly whatever. (Inside of a pillow.)

Then I plan on preparing my WBS as seen in many tek's.

Then I will fill the jars 2/3 of the way with the WBS and PC.

Inoculate in a SAB with 2cc's of my spore syringe.

Incubate and wait till its 30% colonized then give it a good shake and wait till full colonization.

Then transfer that to a Bulk Sub. I plan on using HPOO because I have plenty.

It will be a mono tub. After the HPOO has colonized I plan on casing it with verm/coir and put it into fruiting.

Please comment and give advise, negative or positive both much appreciated.




Quote:

buttermycoface said:
All this was actually usefull, learned quite a lot about pinning trigers
! Everyone onboard with my plan?




All good bro :thumbup: You're the man with a plan! Green light for growing :cool:


--------------------
"No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle
"I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu
"You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt

ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: buttermycoface]
    #21751188 - 06/02/15 12:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

sorry op for yesterday but im sure you can see i was only defending my beliefs. :thumbup:

if you think i was wrong do a quick search - 'hyphal knots in jars'
you will see i wasnt lying to you mate and you will see trusted members like patsy, kizzle ect saying it happens, they may not come here and admitt now but they unknowingly have agreed hundreds of times in old threads!!!

these guys norm great guys but somehow they have lost there way lol
i just hate people spreading clear mis-information  and sheep who fear speaking up

this 1 recent thread got loads pros saying what im saying-
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20301633


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/02/15 05:27 AM)


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21751520 - 06/02/15 05:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

light isn't mentioned with a single word in that thread bob :shrug:
also remember grain jars does not = pf jars.

find a TC (from this decade) who says light induces pinning and jars should be kept in the dark!


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: spacechildo]
    #21751527 - 06/02/15 05:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

again i never said you should keep jars in the dark... quite the opposite :smile:

your lunny

pussyfart and you both said knots or pins dont form in jars???

and i cant agree that when its grains that the myc knows you want it for spawn so even when consolidated it sits there patiently waiting for you lol
you obviously have well trained myc :smile:

get over yourself i said from the start it was my opinion and also said it was controvercial at that!!

im going to leave it at that :thumbup:




--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/03/15 02:12 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21752901 - 06/02/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
pussyfart and you both said knots or pins dont form in jars???



No, we simply said that light has nothing to do with whether or not pins form in the jars after full colonization.

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
and i cant agree that when its grains that the myc knows you want it for spawn so even when consolidated it sits there patiently waiting for you lol
you obviously have well trained myc :smile:



You obviously need more experience.....


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Offlinelutherarkwright93
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
    #21753363 - 06/02/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You know....being right and being an asshole can become synonymous at a certain point.

To the OP:
Why so many mayonnaise jars? this is a little concerning. :cookiemonster:

Haha. I am joking there.

Your tek sounds pretty sound.
Franks' basic tek:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19792837/fpart/1/vc/1
Along with his other more in-depth teks have proven to be exceedingly helpful to get your first tub to success. You may want to do some research into various mixes for spawn once you're ready. Get your ratios and moisture dialed in.


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Offlinebuttermycoface


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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: lutherarkwright93]
    #21755597 - 06/02/15 11:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I was washing jars drilling holes and stuffing them with poly for like 5 hours yesterday. Was great fun.

I went to the pet shop and couldn't find WBS but I found a lot of different seeds and they not very expensive so I am going to make my own mix of seeds.

Another thing, The 70% rubbing alcohol I got yesterday is like a green colour and smells like hospital, is that the right shit? I think they added something to make it green?


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
    #21755890 - 06/03/15 02:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
pussyfart and you both said knots or pins dont form in jars???



No, we simply said that light has nothing to do with whether or not pins form in the jars after full colonization.

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
and i cant agree that when its grains that the myc knows you want it for spawn so even when consolidated it sits there patiently waiting for you lol
you obviously have well trained myc :smile:



You obviously need more experience.....





tbh i think the other way around!! u talk in contradictions!!

you agree mushrooms follow a circaidian rythum?

how do mushrooms follow a circadian rythum then??
they use light as the Zeitgeber (time giver)
mycelium can fruit and colonise in same temps... so thats out,
mycelium can fruit in the wild before it runs out of nutrients or before it max's out it full potential size of it network... again moot

in nature/wild the only thing that garantees they fruit at the correct time  is the exposure to 12/12 light ( the season they fruit) triggering knots and by heavy rains creating conditions!!

what tells them its the right time of year to fruit??
the 'time giver' that sets the internal clock of the mushroom.
just as light does for humans!! thats why if we change timezones we suffer jetlag!!

your way contradicts this!!

you cant have it both ways-

so now you cant say mushrooms have a circadian rythum if you dont acknoledge the purpose of light in triggering pins!!

i dont care how urs behave in an un-natural setup and being forced to do there thing!

im talking basic mycology and the way nature and myc doe it!!

afterall imo nature does it better...

1 outdoors fruits beauty overpowers a whole mono of homegrown...
i would love to grow beautyful mushrooms like this too...
and i believe nature cant be beaten.

you can pull your pants up now im finished with you! :smile:

i have gave you lots of proof and evidence to back my position but u cant do that, all you can do is cherry pick my info take it out of context and find fault that way!!

as a full argument my idea holds water like a dam but your has just flooded your citadel.

thats why you resort to bully boy tactics!!

anyone with a brain can see i wiped the floor with you even if i was incorrect... you cant demonstrate it in the slightest way apart from your word or confirmation bias!!

learn how to use a stick man argument.
win your argument by letting the stick man collapse!!

you have lots to learn about debate... luckily im english lol
now i will sink back to the high ground i just scored for myself!!

i wouldnt norm pull someone down and go to this extremes but you couldnt leave it!!

digging your hole deeper

something for you to think about-
Quote:


To be called circadian, a biological rhythm must meet these three general criteria:

The rhythm has an endogenous free-running period that lasts approximately 24 hours. The rhythm persists in constant conditions, (i.e., constant darkness) with a period of about 24 hours. The period of the rhythm in constant conditions is called the free-running period and is denoted by the Greek letter τ (tau). The rationale for this criterion is to distinguish circadian rhythms from simple responses to daily external cues. A rhythm cannot be said to be endogenous unless it has been tested and persists in conditions without external periodic input. In diurnal animals (active during daylight hours), in general τ is slightly greater than 24 hours, whereas, in nocturnal animals (active at night), in general τ is shorter than 24 hours.

The rhythms are entrainable. The rhythm can be reset by exposure to external stimuli (such as light and heat), a process called entrainment. The external stimulus used to entrain a rhythm is called the Zeitgeber, or "time giver". Travel across time zones illustrates the ability of the human biological clock to adjust to the local time; a person will usually experience jet lag before entrainment of his/her circadian clock has brought it into sync with local time.

The rhythms exhibit temperature compensation. In other words, they maintain circadian periodicity over a range of physiological temperatures. Many organisms live at a broad range of temperatures, and differences in thermal energy will affect the kinetics of all molecular processes in their cell(s). In order to keep track of time, the organism's circadian clock must maintain roughly a 24-hour periodicity despite the changing kinetics, a property known as temperature compensation. The Q10 Temperature Coefficient is a measure of this compensating effect. If the Q10 coefficient remains approximately 1 as temperature increases, the rhythm is considered to be temperature-compensated.





--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/03/15 02:13 AM)


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