|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
buttermycoface

Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 130
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
|
Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please
#21747096 - 06/01/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I'm new to this hobby and this will be my very first try at cultivating mushrooms.
I just want to run my plan past you experienced blokes to see if I'm getting it. U know?
First I Have 750mL jars that you buy mayonnaise in that I drilled 16mm holes in the centre of the lid.
I'm planning on stuffing the holes super tight with poly whatever. (Inside of a pillow.)
Then I plan on preparing my WBS as seen in many tek's.
Then I will fill the jars 2/3 of the way with the WBS and PC.
Inoculate in a SAB with 2cc's of my spore syringe.
Incubate and wait till its 30% colonized then give it a good shake and wait till full colonization.
Then transfer that to a Bulk Sub. I plan on using HPOO because I have plenty.
It will be a mono tub. After the HPOO has colonized I plan on casing it with verm/coir and put it into fruiting.
Please comment and give advise, negative or positive both much appreciated.
|
PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 18 hours
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: buttermycoface]
#21747110 - 06/01/15 01:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
buttermycoface said: I'm new to this hobby and this will be my very first try at cultivating mushrooms.
I just want to run my plan past you experienced blokes to see if I'm getting it. U know?
First I Have 750mL jars that you buy mayonnaise in that I drilled 16mm holes in the centre of the lid.
I'm planning on stuffing the holes super tight with poly whatever. (Inside of a pillow.)
Then I plan on preparing my WBS as seen in many tek's.
Then I will fill the jars 2/3 of the way with the WBS and PC.
Inoculate in a SAB with 2cc's of my spore syringe.
Incubate and wait till its 30% colonized then give it a good shake and wait till full colonization.
Then transfer that to a Bulk Sub. I plan on using HPOO because I have plenty.
It will be a mono tub. After the HPOO has colonized I plan on casing it with verm/coir and put it into fruiting.
Please comment and give advise, negative or positive both much appreciated.
I would shake at about 20% personally.....and just fyi, only a few drops of spore solution is actually needed per jar...and I would skip the casing layer for your first run.....its not needed.
Oh yea, and no need for incubation....on a shelf at room temp is just fine.....if you are comfortable then so are they.
Jars/bags/tubs/trays should colonize @ room temperature getting ambient/indirect light.
Main pinning triggers are full colonization, FAE and Evaporation off of the substrate.
Light is a secondary pinning trigger. For tropical species temperature is not a pinning factor.
P. Cubensis are a tropical species. You could colonize at 70F and fruit at 80F with great results.
Light has been proven beneficial during all stages of mycellium growth. Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm.
You want ambient/indirect light(on a 12/12 schedule preferably) for colonization and consolidation.
You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting.
Optimal temps are mid 70s throughout the whole grow, but anywhere from 65F-80F is acceptable.
Incubation is outdated/uneeded unless temps in the range stated above cannot be kept.
The inside of the jar is always a few degrees warmer than the outside because the mycellium produces heat..mycellium tends to stall at temps above 83F , and contams thrive.
Fruiting at cooler temps tends to produce denser, meatier fruits, while fruiting at higher temps will often produce hollow, less dense stems.
Mycelium should be exposed to ambient room light from day of inoculation as has been known for many years. Light is not a pinning trigger until after full colonization and an increase in air is given, and even then it's a secondary pinning trigger. RR
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
|
buttermycoface

Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 130
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
#21747203 - 06/01/15 02:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Thank you for the advice, So I can inoculate using only half a cc of spore solution?
Our light is only about 8 hrs light 16 dark, should I get a 11w 6500k cfl on a timer to speed up the colonizing of the myc?
I have a lot of experience growing weed, but the shrooms seems a lot more complex.
Using HPOO in a monotub a good or bad idea?
Thanks for the feedback.
|
mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: buttermycoface]
#21747250 - 06/01/15 03:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Light is not a pinning trigger until after full colonization and an increase in air is given, and even then it's a secondary pinning trigger.
light will trigger the formation of hyphal knots in a bag or jar long before any FAE is given!! (remeber the beads you see in a monotub are not hyphal knots as most say!! hyphal knots are tiny bumps.)
is hyphal knots not the first stage of fruiting/pinning?
after full colonisation, light triggers hyphal knot formation and then when given fae ect .....the 'conditions' decide the appropriate places for these hyphal knots to become pins ect. remember not all knots become pins.. only the ones where 'conditions' are right.
lighting is a primary trigger imo, and should not be overlooked (controvercial i know)
hyphal knots start long before the conditions at right!! they appear in high co2, no FAE ect.
its conditions after other parameters are set that allow these already formed hyphal knots to go on to form pins!!

and knots in a jar showing the start of pinning-

full colonisation + light triggers hyphal knots!! hyphal knots are the first stage of fruiting.
store a colonised bag in the dark for extended period... unless contam it sits fine... no knots or pins.
colonise in the light and after 100% bam you get knots even if no contam- its the light !!
so light must be concidered a pinning trigger and primary at that. the rest of the cycle depends more on conditions to allow these knots to form pins.
its basic mycology guys come on!!
EDIT: OP hpoo, gypsum and verm is great bulk substrate for a monotub. i suggest finding/ following 1 tek and stick to it exactly.
--------------------
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 06:54 AM)
|
PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 18 hours
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21747867 - 06/01/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: light will trigger the formation of hyphal knots in a bag or jar long before any FAE is given!!
No it won't......
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: after full colonisation, light triggers hyphal knot formation
Exactly....after the MAIN pinning trigger is there(full colonization).....
Light is only secondary, and will not trigger pin formation unless one or both of the other main triggers(full colonization and evaporation/FAE) are also present.
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: store a colonised bag in the dark for extended period... unless contam it sits fine... no knots or pins.
colonise in the light and after 100% bam you get knots even if no contam- its the light !!
Exactly....after 100%.......
My jars all colonize on this shelf which sits exactly 4ft away from direct CFL lighting.....knots never form before full colonization.
In fact, knots never form in my jars.....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
|
PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 18 hours
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
#21747871 - 06/01/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Mushrooms will pin and fruit in total darkness.....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
|
Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
#21747925 - 06/01/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
More factors to include, spectrum and intensity of light being used, also the frequency.
AFAIK its a part of the surfacing to air trigger, as a secondary. I've also seen data supporting light being used to convert nutrients, light also provides a part heat source.
Increased oxygen + accelerator leading to increased knotting? Never seen a mushroom growing in the middle of a cake.
|
mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
#21748038 - 06/01/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
knots can and do form in the jar!!
Quote:
Exactly....after the MAIN pinning trigger is there(full colonization).....
Light is only secondary, and will not trigger pin formation unless one or both of the other main triggers(full colonization and evaporation/FAE) are also present.
i never said a thing about before 100% read what i said after 100% colonised you will get hyphal knot regardless of fae ect.
see how you agreed with me in a round about way lol
Quote:
Exactly....after 100%.......
My jars all colonize on this shelf which sits exactly 4ft away from direct CFL lighting.....knots never form before full colonization.
In fact, knots never form in my jars.....
yes i said after 100%... my point was they form and in the light too!! in the dark not so much unless of contams or just out of extremes and a bid to survive.
you tell me no then basically prove my point and agree with my statements in a round about way.!!
and knots do form in jars or bags regardless of being exposed to fruiting parameters lol. like you said bags will pin in the dark.... yes they will in them bags( like you also said they couldnt or dont) with no set fruiting parameters lol
sorry to quote myself but this is how i see it....
Quote:
people confuse the trigger to initiate hyphal knots with the other triggers that allow the 'where' to allow these knots to go on to form pins!
the trigger to 'where' is all in conditions (humidity + FAE). the trigger to send the hormonal response throughout the mycelium that is nearly time to fruit is 100% colonisation + consolidation together with light! this initiates hyphal knots formation and the hyphal knots that go on to form pins will be in the locations where humidity ect is best, and not all knots will become pins! most time initiation of knots comes before birthing if consolidated, and knots are the first stage of pinning also some knot can be created under the surface of the mycelium and is thought to happen by light penetrating the surface but how true who knows!
what about bulk subs they dont consolidate?
no they merge the consolidation and fruiting stage so there is no way to say in this case what cause the knots as the stages are not separate so no one can separate the tangle of effects that all the conditions/triggers are having! but in no way proves that light did not initiate the knots.
also we need to remember that the 'beads' seen in monotubs ect are primordia not hyphal knots as most confuse! knots are tiny like goosebumps.
all stimuli is important and it is a balancing act, but remember if any stimuli is not optimal or missing the mushrooms will rely on the ones that are left in a bid to survive and thats why they still pin in adverse conditions with any of the other triggers removed and with this fact we can see the role and importance of any other of the triggers/stimuli.
the order i see-
light and hormonal response from 100% colonised and consolidated triggers hypahl knot formation phase.
drop in co2 + humidity + increase of evapouration helps to select the best place for knots to go on to form pins
so there is enough evidence to say light is effective to be used as a pinning trigger but in conjunction with a balance of other stimuli but cannot be said to be less or more important as responsibility shifts if it is not optimal, satisfactory or missing all together.
when looking at or conducting experiments about the effects of light first we must face facts...
mycelium is a system and it relys apon its senses and hormonal responses to create actions they dont have conciousness or able to make decisions only to respond to stimuli!!
people should not see light as causing location of pins but triggering of hyphal knots in the mycelium and then these knots turn to pins depending on the conditions, so 'location' of pins is all in conditions and the original trigger is 100% colonised and consolidated + light creating knots then the myc is just waiting for conditions and the dominoes fall and knots become pins and pinset is born.
--------------------
|
spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748048 - 06/01/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
they pin fine in complete darkness too
|
mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748060 - 06/01/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
In fact, knots never form in my jars.....
yes i bet u dont do pftek and consolidate thats why!
think back when you did i bet u birthed jars with pins on it never mind knots lol and with out contams present too! its not uncommon to birth brf jars after consolidation with pins and hundreds of knots. your so wrong lol
if you consolidate grains you will see knots!!
--------------------
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 12:33 PM)
|
mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748068 - 06/01/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
they pin fine in complete darkness too
how does this disprove in any way shape or for that hyphal knot form after 100% colonised and light is given without any other parameter being set!!
this is enough to show the role of lighting acting as a trigger to initiate pins afterall knots are the first stage are they not ??
they dont pin well in darkness and sometimes not at all so this only shows that it has an affinity to do so in certain extremes (prob just in an all out bid for survival) and in no way disproves my claims
--------------------
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 12:04 PM)
|
spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748098 - 06/01/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
because it doesnt matter whether light is introduced or not, they will pin after 100% either way 
its like wearing green socks after 100%... it doesnt seem to matter!
|
PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 18 hours
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748123 - 06/01/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mustangbob3 said:
Quote:
they pin fine in complete darkness too
how does this disprove in any way shape or for that hyphal knot form after 100% colonised and light is given without any other parameter being set!!
It doesn't, but the knots would form regardless of if light is given or not.......your point is moot.....light is only secondary....
You said:
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: after full colonisation, light triggers hyphal knot formation
This is a false statement......full colonization triggered that.......
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (06/01/15 11:55 AM)
|
Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
#21748146 - 06/01/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Listen to PussyFart, he knows what he's talking about. Guy's been around the block more than once.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
|
mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: spacechildo]
#21748154 - 06/01/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
spacechildo said: because it doesnt matter whether light is introduced or not, they will pin after 100% either way 
its like wearing green socks after 100%... it doesnt seem to matter!
thats like me being starving and passing up food as its not say a chicken dinner ... no if i was starving i would eat it anyway!! just as the myc will force its self to poorly pin in darkness as a last ditch effort to survive!
you need to research confirmation bias and dual causality!
one out come doesnt dictate the other! you talk in absolutes like if its this it cant be that. why cant i be right and that also mycelium has an affinity to pin poorly in darkness if forced to do so? having this affinity dosent exclude the connection of light and pins!
correlation is not causation
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 12:15 PM)
|
mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748169 - 06/01/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
i trust pussyfarts experience 100% but untill someone can actually prove it wrong im sticking to scientific reason !
and saying they pin in darkness ... is too broad of a sweeping statement to prove anything!! thats just assuming that as they can do it without light automatically means they must always do so!!
--------------------
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 12:17 PM)
|
PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 18 hours
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748188 - 06/01/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Tell me exactly what you want proved wrong, and I will try my best to do it.
We already know mushrooms will knot, pin and fruit in complete darkness after full colonization.
I can back that up with links......so what is it that u are asking exactly?
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
|
Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
#21748196 - 06/01/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PussyFart said: Tell me exactly what you want proved wrong, and I will try my best to do it.
We already know mushrooms will knot, pin and fruit in complete darkness after full colonization.
I can back that up with links......so what is it that u are asking exactly?
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
|
mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: PussyFart]
#21748249 - 06/01/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
prove ....
that hyphal knots cannot and do not form in bags/jar after 100% colonisation + consolidated without any other fruiting parameter set.
and that jars observed - if recieving light most will initiate knots... and jars recieving no light- only a minority will show knots everything else being the same 
i am greatful for your time and commitment 
i see the light creates more hypal knots and quicker... so when final fruiting parameters are finally set it creates the conditions to allows more of these knots to go on to form pinheads and eventually pin ect createing the pinset.
in the dark less or even no knots are created so less go on to form pins ect...
showing the value of light as a primary pinning trigger or should i say knotting trigger lol alongside 100% col and consol 
and also bear this in mind-
Quote:
all stimuli is important and it is a balancing act, but remember if any stimuli is not optimal or missing the mushrooms will rely on the ones that are left in a bid to survive and thats why they still pin in adverse conditions with any of the other triggers removed and with this fact we can see the role and importance of any other of the triggers/stimuli.
this swapping of stimuli happens with light, wind, and gravity ect if one stimuli is missing or in adequet.
--------------------
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/01/15 12:45 PM)
|
PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 18 hours
|
Re: Am I Understanding this correctly? Advice please [Re: mustangbob3]
#21748331 - 06/01/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: prove ....
that hyphal knots cannot and do not form in bags/jar after 100% colonisation + consolidated without any other fruiting parameter set.
I cannot prove that they cannot.....that was never my argument.....they can pin after full colonization plus consolidation without any other parameters....mainly because the number one parameter for pinning is full colonization......This usually only happens with BRF cakes/bulk subs tho....I have never seen a grain jar knot/pin without given FAE...light has nothing to do with it, but the mycellium does benefit from the light, and I'm sure it helps.
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: prove ....
that jars observed - if recieving light most will initiate knots...
I can disprove this......take my grain jars for example.....they sit on a shelf in my room getting direct/intense 6500k light from a cfl bulb that it literally 4ft away from the jars....the light is on for at least 12 hours a day......I can keep grain jars sitting there for months and all that will happen is the mycellium will get old.....no knotting, no pnning......because light is not enough, nor is full colonization in my case........ no FAE is the problem, which just happens to be the other main pinning trigger/parameter.....

Quote:
mustangbob3 said: and jars recieving no light- only a minority will show knots everything else being the same 
Light has nothing to do with it lol. What kind of jars are we talking about? BRF or grains?
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
|
|