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Re: Safe to take Syrian Rue and Psylocybes day after taking MDMA? [Re: CosmicShroom]
    #21761097 - 06/04/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicShroom said:
I also ate cheese and mayo and fish because the diet doesn't apply in the same way to Syrian Rue, dig a little deeper brothers




You need to dig a little deeper too. None of those foods are contraindicated with pharmaceutical MAOIs either. It is only aged cheese that is contraindicated.

"Foye's Principles of Medicinal Chemistry" states that those foods that are contraindicated with MAOIs are protein-rich foods that have undergone protein breakdown.

Hypertensive crises with MAOIs have occurred in some patients following ingestion of foods containing large amounts of tyramine or tryptophan. In general, patients taking MAOIs should avoid protein foods that have undergone protein breakdown by aging, fermentation, pickling, smoking, or bacterial contamination.

Foye's Principles of Medicinal Chemistry, Seventh Edition. Thomas L. Lemke, Ph.D., David A. Williams, Ph.D., Victoria F. Roche, Ph.D., S. William Zito, Ph.D. 2013.

Smoked fish and pickled herring has been listed as a restricted food, however an article entitled "MAO Inhibitors: Risks, Benefits, and Lore"* lists those fish products as "unnecessarily restricted."

And mayonnaise is not aged and neither is its vinegar component. The crude vinegar product, rice vinegar, is aged, however rice is not high in protein, so I don't think it would be an issue.

Foods said to be unnecessarily restricted in the "Risks, Benefits, and Lore" article:

avocados; bananas; beef or chicken bouillon; chocolate; fresh and mild cheeses, eg, ricotta, cottage cheese, cream cheese, processed cheese slices; fresh meat, poultry, or fish; meat gravy (fresh); monosodium glutamate; peanuts; properly stored pickled or smoked fish (eg, herring); raspberries; and yeast extracts (except Marmite).

The article lists the following as "absolute restrictions":

• Aged cheeses and meats
• Banana peels
• Broad bean (fava) pods
• Spoiled meats
• Marmite
• Sauerkraut
• Soybean products
• Draft beers


So, until you eat one of those foods with rue, you haven't put anything to the test. Oh and I think if the MAOI diet is violated when on rue, it kicks the rue out of your system (those pharmaceuticals aren't capable of being kicked out of one's system, which is why violating the diet when on them is potentially fatal). That's the impression I got from reading this info on the MAOI, moclobemide, which is a similar to rue (no diet restrictions, unlike some other MAOIs): http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21464326


CosmicShroom said he was going to take the rue and mushrooms a day after the MDMA, so why are people worried about a possible interaction? Two substances can't interact if they're not in the person's system at the same time as each other. God damn, what's wrong with you people? And as CosmicShroom said, he's read reports where people actually took Syrian rue with MDMA. I too had seen a report of this (https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24742). It wouldn't surprise me if taking MDMA with Syrian rue was safe, given the following info, which indicates that MAOIs are not as restrictive as people have been lead to believe:


#1 We have found all antidepressants that do not involve significant serotonin reuptake inhibition (e.g., bupropion, trazodone, and tricyclics other than clomipramine) can be safely administered with MAOIs. Combination therapy is worth considering because it may be effective when other approaches have failed.

Cole J, Bodkin A. MAO inhibitors: An option worth trying in treatment-resistant cases. Current Psychiatry, Vol. 1, No. 6, June 2002


#2 Two examples of MAOIs combined with amphetamines:

Im not taking Nardil but I'm taking 80mg Parnate. Recent studies show that if you're MAOI resistant stimulants can help. I'm taking 70 mg of Vyvanse and Ritalin (not Adderal). My blood pressure is normal and the MAOI started working. Some people go as high as 120mg with stimulants. Just watch your blood pressure. Of course the higher you go the dietary restrictions become more pertinent.

7/2/2014  MRDIGBY  http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/1073591857-post542.html


Stimulant + MAOI journal



*MAO Inhibtors: Risks, benefits, and lore. Wimbiscus, Molly MD; Olga Kostenk, MD; Donald Malone, MD. Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine. vol. 77, no. 12, Dec 2010


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