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OfflineBeyondScience
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Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence
    #21744466 - 05/31/15 11:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Howdy,

Kant is one of many philosophers that say that God could never be proven. I want to define the basic needs of the common man that he needs to have God be proven.

I see that he needs new intelligent life, new matter, new space, new technology, and all this needs to be impossible for modern man to perform.

Take it that all these things were found in Nature on Earth, and are known not to come from another species on another planet, because Humanity's technological capabilities are fantastic, and far-reaching enough that it is said that any other intelligent life forms' technology would only mirror our own capabilities.

Would this prove the existence of God for you?

-ty


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InvisibleTropism
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: BeyondScience]
    #21744827 - 05/31/15 01:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:confused2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: BeyondScience]
    #21744892 - 05/31/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Words, no matter how cleverly manipulated, cannot prove God.

Actual evidence is required, not mere mental masturbation.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: BeyondScience]
    #21745054 - 05/31/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

As long as God is playing hide and seek there will be no worthy evidence. Believers grasp and fawn at the chance to make a weak correlation and hold it up as proof... because they don't have any proof. And yet if they were to admit this to themselves it would invoke a crisis. Some claim to have faith, but the mind that finds value in logic and reason will be split and tormented by the dissonance when the request is for it's own capacities to be ignored and devalued.

Some make a living by fucking with your mind, telling you to believe what you should not and to disbelieve what is obvious.

What seems likely, there is no God. If there is a God then it's a sorry God creating such a fucked up place with fucked up adherents.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBeyondScience
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: Rahz]
    #21745818 - 05/31/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I was asking if this would be proof enough, and that given we have that physical evidence.

Often times, I think that people expect God to stop them or other people who are acting evil, and get upset when he does not- these people are forgetting about judgement, which has always been important. The Planet is not "fucked up", but certainly people who are not making the 'grade' are being evil and are "fucked up", but that's necessary for the judgement of their souls.

Take this a priori discussion as having a posteriori evidence.


Edited by BeyondScience (05/31/15 07:00 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: BeyondScience]
    #21745925 - 05/31/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And I'm telling you the evidence you've submitted is not proof. It's just bad evidence.

But because you have an emotional investment in the outcome I'm guessing you're unwilling to see that such loose correlations in no way prove the existence of God.

And by "fucked up place" I'm referring to the social atmosphere humans generally ascribe to and create as a product of their thoughts and emotions. If there's a God, even in the case he gave free will (his choice), then God is responsible for all the beheadings, persecutions, domestic violence, slavery, theft, muggings, beatings, genocides, rapes, and all around nasty behavior experienced in the world. This is not a God I would want to exist, though if there were some meaningful evidence I would be willing to consider it.

Not even religious people can generally embrace that concept. That's why they created Satan, although when it's all said and done all it does is bury the cognitive dissonance down deeper to bubble up later.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBeyondScience
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: Rahz]
    #21746014 - 05/31/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You cannot blame god for people deciding to give him more credit than he actually has. You were born, and live and make decisions, and God wants that for a very good reason- you may be really good at life, and show him something.

All that murder is not God's actions, and not his fault. If he is on our planet, which is what I am supposing, he is trying to stop all those mean people. God wants people to live with one another.

My question is now what evidence do you desire?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: BeyondScience]
    #21746052 - 05/31/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

and God wants that for a very good reason




Must be "nice" (read: arrogant or delusional or both) to have an inside track into the mind of God.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: BeyondScience]
    #21746146 - 05/31/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't believe in God so I do not blame God! Blaming something that doesn't exist would just be crazy wouldn't it?

If there were a God I would blame him for every negative thing that can possibly happen. The free will argument (not that I believe in free will) isn't an excuse for your hypothetical God's behavior.

Let's say you have an untrained dog. You know for a fact that putting it in a pen with a small child will result in a 50% death rate for the child. If you wanted to be sure no children died you would be sure to never put the dog in the pen with the child. If you wanted to be sure at least some children died then you would be sure to put the dog in the pen with the child.

If there were a God, everything would be to his credit, even the things about nature you don't like. If there is a God she likes genocide and rape and beheadings.

What evidence do I desire? I don't, but if people claim God is a sentient being then surely God can come up with some reasonable evidence. The fact that there is no credible evidence means either God doesn't exist, or that God doesn't want us to believe absent evidence in which case he ends up with the gullible and delusional and sends the rational folks to hell. How crazy is that?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: Rahz]
    #21746193 - 05/31/15 08:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I like rape, so I am Godlike! :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21746333 - 05/31/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You're an angel for sure. :heart:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinesecondorder
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: BeyondScience]
    #21749416 - 06/01/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

My question is now what evidence do you desire?




Something tangible and repeatable. God should be able to send down a person to Earth that can perform miracles, but none of those boring healing-the-sick miracles, where the sick people might have made it through anyway, but actually decent miracles. David Blaine is currently our best bet. If that dude claimed to be god I'd start worshiping him in a second. The Christian God (which I'm assuming you're referring to) used to perform miracles galore, left right and center, but he got tired of being so helpful. Somehow 'miracles' that happened 2000 years ago in illiterate regions of the middle east aren't very convincing.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Creating Life, Time, Space, and Intelligence [Re: secondorder]
    #21749904 - 06/01/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I hate the word "create" what about "things happening under initial conditions"


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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