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catnip40
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Registered: 03/09/12
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Panaeolus ̶o̶l̶i̶v̶a̶c̶e̶u̶s̶ fimicola?
#21744352 - 05/31/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Edited by catnip40 (06/03/15 09:54 AM)
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21744362 - 05/31/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Was it scoped? Or are you asking for id?
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catnip40
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Not scoped just an assumption. Def an active pan though right?
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21744438 - 05/31/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
catnip40 said: Def an active pan though right?
Really hard to tell with such an old beat up specimen, poor pics, lack of info.
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catnip40
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: Lucis]
#21756486 - 06/03/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Update with better pics and info. I wanna say this is fimicola. I found some more in the same spot today and its in a part of a yard that has dead grass patches. Fimicola is said to grow in low nitrogen areas and poorly maintained/fertilized lawns. these have popped up in the same area the past few years, spore prints always charcoal black. Gills are either grayish or black depending on age. These were the only ones growing, didn't look like any foes or cincts were around as the temps have dipped
guess it could also be a foe, printing these ones now. seems like these little grey ones that come up every year always print black though




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catnip40
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21757009 - 06/03/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21757070 - 06/03/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Does look like Panaeolus, how big are the spores and what do they look like? Are there sulphidia? What do the cheilocystidia look like?
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catnip40
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#21757146 - 06/03/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unfortunately I don't have a scope to scope them
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic



Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#21759194 - 06/03/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said: Does look like Panaeolus, how big are the spores and what do they look like? Are there sulphidia? What do the cheilocystidia look like?
when you ask questions like this, could you provide the answers as well?
such as "how big are the spores and what do they look like because fimicola looks like little pineapples at 8 but foes look like little eggplants and measure a whopping 14mu."
and "are there sulphidia, which are yellow colored bodies that occur in x species but not in y."
and what do the cheilocystidia look like because in fimicola they look like little drghostys but in foes they look like short fat little fireplugs"
it would be educational for us all, and maybe come off less as brow-beating
tia
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doctorghosty
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Registered: 09/02/10
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Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Quote:
RuralAnomaly said: the cheilocystidia look like because in fimicola they look like little drghostys

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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Lot of it are questions the key will ask, which if anyone wants just pm me. Some things I can point out though is that P. fimicola has sulphidia as does what appears to be an undescribed P. olivaceus lookalike in the PNW. P. olivaceus however shouldn't and will have slightly roughened spores while species like P. fimicola will have entirely smooth spores. Really though, Panaeolus is a genus where you can get surprising answers if you spend the time to study them, I wouldn't assume the only possibilities are P. olivaceus or P. fimicola even though that could be true.
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catnip40
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#21761348 - 06/04/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Checked the spore prints from the ones I found yesterday, pretty much all were dark jet black with ambient light from the room, and when light is shined on them they were black with a grey charcoal color. One or two of them were a dark black color without light shined on it and with light it was a dark black brown tinged color, which could be a foe or two in the mix maybe

Example, the print in the middle has a brownish color to it when you shine light on it but looks very black under natural lighting. I collected at least 10-15 yesterday and only around 3 had this brownish color the rest were black grey when light was shined on them

Also found some more small ones with really long stems. I've been finding them in deep wild grass on the edges of dead grass patches. Not sure if its crab grass or what, but its not particularly nice grass.
Edited by catnip40 (06/04/15 12:24 PM)
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21761651 - 06/04/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Beautiful.
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic



Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#21763253 - 06/04/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said: Lot of it are questions the key will ask, which if anyone wants just pm me. Some things I can point out though is that P. fimicola has sulphidia as does what appears to be an undescribed P. olivaceus lookalike in the PNW. P. olivaceus however shouldn't and will have slightly roughened spores while species like P. fimicola will have entirely smooth spores. Really though, Panaeolus is a genus where you can get surprising answers if you spend the time to study them, I wouldn't assume the only possibilities are P. olivaceus or P. fimicola even though that could be true.
now thats what we're talkin' about! thank you! and i will take you up on your kind offer. it really is the little details like the above that you've accumulated over time and study that are the gems you guys share with us.
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catnip40
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Well they keep popping up. I ate a few of these last year to see if there were any affects but only about 5 popped up, but I used the spores from those and sprayed the yard and this year it seems like these are the only things popping up in this area of the yard.
June 11th, 2015

June 12th

I'll add more later..
Edited by catnip40 (06/12/15 03:19 PM)
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catnip40
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21805442 - 06/14/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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June 13th Mixed collections between the dark/brown gray ones, and the white/cream colored ones. Both print black though.
   
I believe I'm finding fimicola and olivaceus both. The lighter cream capped ones being fimicola and the gray/dark brown colored ones being olivaceus or perhaps cinctulus they look more gray to me though. No way of knowing for sure since I can't scope em.
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21805492 - 06/14/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nice shots! 
These species might vary in appearance though, so you'll have to scope them to know for certain what you've got.
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catnip40
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Well, I was thinking about bio-assaying these, I ate a few last year but I really only had a few. There's a ton popping up this year and it seems like it's only these and no foes at all so far, maybe a few I tossed out because of a slight brown tint to a spore print.. There's nothing to worry about in the panaelouis genus right? If anyone wanted to scope em I could save the collection instead of just eating them but I'm curious to know if they're active
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Anglerfish
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus [Re: catnip40]
#21805571 - 06/14/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not sure but my impression is that the content of alkaloids, if at all present, is limited in these species. You would probably have to consume a considerable amount to notice any effects, so I don't know if it is really worth it.
Perhaps someone on here have some more and better information on these species, and maybe some experience with bio assays.
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catnip40
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Got an ID request here:


Saw these mixed in but look a bit weird, what are they? I think I probably got a few of these in my collection as well not. But all the ones that I've kept I've spore printed and they were all black or brown (brown gettnig discarded)
Mainly just concerned because I don't think its a panaeolus it looks odd to me
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