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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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enviromentalism against technological evolution
#21744006 - 05/31/15 06:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I want to be an environmentalist but....
•when the sun expires if we have not discovered interstellar travel our species goes extinct
Should I help save the earth? Or promote technological evolution?
Think, if the time comes and our planet is devoid of resources and unable to.support life, or if our star expires and we are not able to leave earth, people will say "you fool! You cleaned the rivers and saved the animals and cleaned the ocean when you should have been putting every ounce of energy into devolping technology to leave this planet!"
I find myself only ½ way an environmentalist, we must keep the planet liveable for ourselves and the other lifeforms that keep nature from collapsing, but must also do all we can to advance the technology for space travel as a means of preserving our species...
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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I'm at a loss here....
I cant decide which is the right thing to do....
-E. Borodin
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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In the New Earth there will be no sea, so that sort of pre-supposes that technology will carry on when environmental concerns are a thing of the past. I hope this helps you in your quandary.
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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You can do both.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: Sun King]
#21747457 - 06/01/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sun King said: You can do both.
I wish I could, but one option always seems to impeade on the other, its looking like I need to put all my energy into one or the other...besides I'm just one person in the 21st century, in the bigger picture I know it wont really matter what I do, but I want to be able to think I made a moral decision....
-E. Borodin
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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We really can't clean up the earth. Worse, as the aerosol spraying continues on a ramped up scale, the poisoning becomes even greater. Radiation from Fukushima, nice to not have to hear about that on the news for months on end but it continues leaking. China is a real mess, whole cities of toxic electronic waste with a river having a pH of 1. What's your "technological evolution" going to do to go clean up that river?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: LunarEclipse]
#21747551 - 06/01/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: We really can't clean up the earth. Worse, as the aerosol spraying continues on a ramped up scale, the poisoning becomes even greater. Radiation from Fukushima, nice to not have to hear about that on the news for months on end but it continues leaking. China is a real mess, whole cities of toxic electronic waste with a river having a pH of 1. What's your "technological evolution" going to do to go clean up that river?
...whats the point of cleaning a river on a planet we are going to abandon? That's the issue I'm struggling with, I'm sure that when the time comes we will have a sample of most livings things DNA to bring with us, specially food plants and polenating insects and so on....
I watch films like this one:
I want to save the Forrest and stop the murder of innocent animals, but I don't want to do it at the cost of the species.....failure is an option, and if we fail, if another civilization ever tries to rebuild they will find the planet already mined of useable resources and polluted...this is a one shot deal.....
....and the name of the game is to find another earth before this one cant support us or before our sun super-novas.....
The people in control now think that there's going to be an easy way out, that saucers from alpha-centauti will swoop in and save us before this happens, or that Christ will return to earth for a final battle with Satan and everybody will be "beamed" up to heaven....
...I don't know...its a complicated issue, and again I'm just one person, it would be like trying to Dam a river with a single twig, I cant stop anything...
...but again I want to know I did what was best for life.
-E. Borodin
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Why can't you be a technologist and environmentalist?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21748506 - 06/01/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Because techenvironmentologist is too long a word.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#21749783 - 06/01/15 06:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm pro common sense, a rare and unpopulated group in the 21st century.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21751626 - 06/02/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Why can't you be a technologist and environmentalist?
Because the interests of one always impeads on the interests of the other.....
If there's a way that's great....
Like I said, this is a personal moral issue, I cant change anything, like I said before it would be like trying to Dam a river with a single twig.....I just want to know I put my effort in the correct location...
-E. Borodin
-E. Borodin
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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There is a way, become a geoengineer like a David Keith or a Ken Caldeira. Pretend you have the cure for the environment in the form of global cooling that does anything but that. Pretend you have the solution waiting while all along you've been creating the problem, and can't believe there hasn't been more of a reaction.
So good work, boys, you are an integral part of the elite team working hard to destroy the earth while reassuring folks that geoengineering is the answer.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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RennHuhn
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/15
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Just do both? We humans have enough time. The planets wont run away. The sun will continue shining for millions of years. So our technological evolution has enough time to happen. The question is if we safe our planet with technology or use it to create even more waste.
Edited by RennHuhn (06/03/15 09:14 AM)
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: RennHuhn]
#21752046 - 06/02/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Renn Hunn, always enjoy your posts considerably. 
Just wanted to say. 
My view is in agreement: it's 100% possible to do both; have technology without destroying species' lives,
the loss of any 1 species' life is too much, in my view; and it is not necessary to compromise.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Like I said, this is a personal moral issue, I cant change anything, like I said before it would be like trying to Dam a river with a single twig.....I just want to know I put my effort in the correct location...
-E. Borodin
-E. Borodin
So, you want to waste your life in a way that makes you feel good.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: Sun King]
#21755245 - 06/02/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Planet of the Apes is a result of environmentalism gone too far. I have to say that George Taylor was not the sharpest rock in the box. He believed he flew halfway across the galaxy and even though the apes spoke English, he had no clue he was back on earth until he saw the Statue of Liberty?
Really?
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#21756067 - 06/03/15 04:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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How would alien apes learn English? That's just silly.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: Sun King]
#21756169 - 06/03/15 05:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I liked Nova. She was hot, submissive and most importantly, never spoke.
The perfect woman!
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#21756181 - 06/03/15 05:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Charlton liked apes.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: LunarEclipse]
#21756419 - 06/03/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: There is a way, become a geoengineer like a David Keith or a Ken Caldeira. Pretend you have the cure for the environment in the form of global cooling that does anything but that. Pretend you have the solution waiting while all along you've been creating the problem, and can't believe there hasn't been more of a reaction.
So good work, boys, you are an integral part of the elite team working hard to destroy the earth while reassuring folks that geoengineering is the answer.
Could you please eleaborate on geoengineering?
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: Sun King]
#21756443 - 06/03/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sun King said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Like I said, this is a personal moral issue, I cant change anything, like I said before it would be like trying to Dam a river with a single twig.....I just want to know I put my effort in the correct location...
-E. Borodin
-E. Borodin
So, you want to waste your life in a way that makes you feel good. 
I want to know my actions contributed to the greater good rather than hindering it.
As to weather life is a waste or not is a philosophical issue
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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human existance is a failed experiment in nature....
Proving that statement wrong should be the objective of every living human.
Rehuhn, if your correct we are wasting our effort and energy running up an "up" escalator, and if we would simply stand still we will find that the ground beneath us will carry us to our goal effortlessly.....however I don't think this is the case, I thinks its a race between success and disaster, failure is an option, and we are going to need every bit of energy and human effort to prevent this.....there are no rewards for "good tries" in nature....
-E. Borodin
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i like cow poo
Nature Lover


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Put your efforts towards renewable energy. I doubt our fucked up species is worth saving. Anyways we have a much better chance of survival if we take care of the habitable planet we live on.
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RennHuhn
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/15
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Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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I dont get you. Technology is not some single use thing. Technology is the result of our understanding of nature, the there is no up and down with science there is only a better. How we use that technology is the interesting question.
I am an optimist at heart, maybe a weird kind but still an optimist. I think that there is a good chance that we ruin our planet and that our civilisation as we know it will end but that is only "short term" Even if we fail, as long as it isnt a nuclear war, there will be civilisations after ours, and they will learn.
But I think that we truly are living in some kind of final civilisation. As long as the things we learn are preserved as long as the datacenters and libraries dont burn the humans will pull through. As long as information is preserved ther are rewards for good tries.
Even if we destroy our nature, a new nature will arise. Maybe through recreating lost species or maybe through artificially sped up evolution.
I think there is trend of underestimating nature and humans. We are in a really bad situation, but was there ever a better situation? We humans have pulled trough so much shit and pain but still somehow still went forward.
@once in a lifetime Thanks you are a nice guy
Edited by RennHuhn (06/03/15 09:37 AM)
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: enviromentalism against technological evolution [Re: RennHuhn]
#21761106 - 06/04/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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[Quote]renhuhn said "I am an optimist at heart, maybe a weird kind but still an optimist. I think that there is a good chance that we ruin our planet and that our civilisation as we know it will end but that is only "short term" Even if we fail, as long as it isnt a nuclear war, there will be civilisations after ours, and they will learn."
Just as Terence mckenna said:
Because intelligence, if we fail, will never again reach the kind of levels on this planet that we have reached. Why? Because we have extracted all the available metals near the surface of the Earth; an evolving species following after us will find the Earth strangely depleted of usable materials, down to the 1500-foot level; and so intelligence coming beyond us will find it just does not have the resources to make the leap to technical civilisation.
He is not wrong, so even if there's not a nuclear war, chances are slim that another civilazation would even be capable of reaching the advanced technological States needed to.achieve interstellar travel. That's the name of the game, to acheive interstellar travel and the ability to locate and populate new planets successfully, if not our species dies with our sun, or even more likely the planet will be unable to sustain before this happens, growing populations and dwindling resources means space is the only place we have to go....other than extinct
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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I should have included that entire quote in my last post, because, at least in this case, Terence was able to make my point, but articulated in a very eloquent and precise manor, so sorry to somewhat post the same thing twice, but this quote really did hold quite a bit of relevence to the topic being discussed.
history is essentially apparently important enough jeopardize the stability of all the rest of the natural ecosystemic world. It’s as though Nature is saying, “We are willing to place the entire planetary ecology in danger for 50,000 years in order for the opportunity to be explored of language-using, technological-expressing, intelligence carrying all of life to the next level”. And it’s a terrifying enterprise, because apparently to carry life to the next level, tremendous intellectual sophistication is required about the release and control of energy. The problem is, energy can be used to destroy as well as build. So as the human enterprise has moved toward greater and greater power, and ability to manipulate the environment, the stakes in the cosmic game have risen. And now what we have is approximately $100 billion sitting in the centre of the crap table, and one roll of the dice more and we’re going to either win it or lose everything. Because intelligence, if we fail, will never again reach the kind of levels on this planet that we have reached.Why? Because we have extracted all the available metals near the surface of the Earth; an evolving species following after us will find the Earth strangely depleted of usable materials, down to the 1500-foot level; and so intelligence coming beyond us will find it just does not have the resources to make the leap to technical civilisation.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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i understand your thoughts on this very well coinccidendtia, as i have been pondering them my whole life time too. to me it's all related, and spiritual growth for example should lead to a much more gracious relationship to mother earth; deeper understanding of connection of events, and of life, tends to do this very much. social pressures are nothing as soon as you realize they are nothing. that is only one step in an infinite field; there is infinite space, and so forth - reaching a place where you can spend much time on peace, higher states of consciousness, is very good; keep walking forward into the light, etc. greater and greater light appears as we do so; walk in peace, is the way to peace; it is not a destination but a path, it is a process. . .
what is good is what saves species' lives, and what is bad is what harms them, or some variant of this, is the most simple and true definition of good and bad; all the other things, all still apply -- to see good is to bring good, in people, etc., all the factors of life - healing, strengthening, oneself, all still apply; yet the fact is, we're connected to all species' lives, this is a profound thing. . . there is infinite space, and joy, and peace, a tiny taste is all that's needed for one to know for sure it's there. a drop of the ocean is enough to know its taste for good.
if one said to an ape - one day humans will be here; they would not understand - if you said, one day there will be civilizations, roads, cities; one day beings will fly over the ocean, even fly to the stars, if they could understand - they would not believe. . similarly, most humans do not understand there is a future step for us, a divine life, yet it is very real and possible. what is the next step in human evolution? what is divine bliss, consciousness, and peace? it is beautiful, beyond anything, it is wonderful.
it's also been here since before time and we are getting it again. we are reaching it again; and in a new way, as it is new every day, all beings are new, all rivers are new - all moments are new; everything is new at every moment; but we don't see it, we forget; yet we can reach it totally and attain it fully - in the blink of an eye - or with gradual change; as gradual change is more generally the lasting kind. . .
so there is two things - consciousness and world; higher consciousness includes kindness, peace, love, joy; these things radiate from us when we reach their source; when we embody peace more and more we become more and more a conduit for peace; whatever energy, whatever consciousness we have will relate to others around us, we are always connected;
'heart and soul, life passes from one to another,' from a song, pentangling -- outer life flows within us, and inner life flows to other life. we are in flux with the universe - we are a continuous process with the universe, and what is really interesting is that we're one. the universe is one light; and this is not a final step - not the end goal - it is the first step. . . total love and peace is not a distant goal - it is simple, we had it always, we know it always, we never forgot. . . we have it and know it; we are it - when we are happy, we express it w/ or w/out knowing it, etc.
so that is 1 step, and step 2 is where we reach a divine life in full; to begin with, that means protecting species; nothing is ever lost; that is - no reason to ever grieve; nothing may ever be 'cut off' of the universe, nothing can leave the source - the leaves of the tree of life never fall. . . in other words, no damage may ever come to a photon. if this doesn't make sense - ask - continue to ask - how may one ever damage a photon? one may never, as much as one tries; so that is good. . .
anyway - what i am saying is nothing is ever lost; to go on the spiritual path isn't to give up anything - it's all still here.
what i am saying is - to think one is losing something ever is not true; for various reason;
it is a little abstract at that point - what i am saying is, go for it, the impossible dream - as beloved mckenna says, the universe will lift you up; dream the impossible dream; each day is new and close and close and close to the infinite light.
what is fulfillment? - a good question to ponder - is it possible to be fulfilled at all times? is that what masters do? anyway words are energy - life is energy - heart and soul are energy -
love and peace are energy; mindfulness is energy; and so forth. all of these disparate energies are one in truth -
the essential thing is to change heart to love, joy, play, laughter;
understanding shows: energy matters, to take energy unnecessarily is to take life unnecessarily.
grab is take and give is life,
to give is to give is to give.
to love is to love is to love.
energy and species life are much the same;
tho i say non ever leave the tree - it does not lessen our duty;
all life on earth is precious, sacred, and beautiful, it is all equally beautiful and of the same nature - of life.
to understand this is to naturally arise the change of heart which gives more; which knows that consume - the very word comes from destroy - is consume
to love is to love,
to give is to give.
and the ones who understand, they reduce consuming, they know what it is,
it is not good or bad - but the important thing is, to understand life, in all its infinite variety and beauty
yet also utter simplicity and oneness
to know that all beings are sacred, all is related - and all is possible.
these and several other facts or truths are liberating, and help us, when in the world, transform it into beauty and peace.
it is not necessary to compromise - we do not have to give up enjoyment, or love, or life, or fulfillment, or anything like that --
to give up all bad energy is the only thing necessary,
to trade all words that create a loss of energy, with the natural, correct, and true life
that is a full-fledged human, a real human, with full vitality, love, peace, and the rest - -- -
that's the goal;
an' when i say all is possible - i hope to encourage once again, a gradual reducing of consumption
that is the main thing.
for me, i am very very very very very close to consuming zero,
it is not so much about forcing it - about assuming a artificial stance,
not at all,
all things flow naturally, happen naturally; and -
it is not easy or difficult -
baby steps, gentle action, gradual change.
yet simply cutting out nonsense things in life is good - consumerism is rampant. . .
the last thing they would say is they are happy and we are not
that's so frail though
it has no validity or basis in reality whatsoever
energy is energy - and energy of love and mindfulness are strong, health, vital, peace:
these are most real because they are most boundless, liberating and freeing. . .
there is infinite beauty and variety in the world, in the universe,
there are boundless worlds,
sometimes we can see all of them. heh.
peaceful means is the one way to effect peace - to enact peace - it cannot come about thru non-peaceful means.
to get to one's self - tru self - is not a fantasm; nor a difficulty -
it is one step, it is not difficult or easy; yet if anything it can be said to be the same as all others. . .
peace cannot come about thru war - we cannot reach it by anger, or anything other than non-violent action, nurtured by love and compassion
and those come from understanding.
to see the effect one person has on others around them is so useful - cause and effect - to understand.
anyway - principle of selectivity is best guide and aid; follow it, place all highest ideals before you day and night, and you achieve your true nature;
and you go beyond - you are an addition to the universe; no one is smarter than you; it is true; also - you create a new life, a new understanding, a new beauty, when you follow your inner wisdom, your true guide.
all the best.
jake.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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