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betaWP
PE, Chitwan, AA+, ATL7


Registered: 02/24/15
Posts: 31
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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On cloning from late flushes
#21741951 - 05/30/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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(Backstory: I'm currently cloning my biggest, freak-sized fruit on agar. It arrived on the fourth flush of a multispore cake).
I was trying to determine the drawbacks of cloning a fruit from a late flush. It's been discussed a few times, and the consensus seems to be that it's suboptimal, but nothing to shy away from.
Some users dissented, but they provided explanations I couldn't quite grasp. User Brennus said:
Quote:
Once you've reached a sixth flush, the mycelium is old and nearing the end of its life cycle. You could probably get away with it, but why bother perpetuating weak and aging cell lines?
Okay, this confuses me.
In the first sentence, he's discussing the mycelium facing gradual depletion of available nutrition. Then, he pivots to talk about 'aging cell lines' - a phrase that I guessed refers to genetics. But how does the first sentence relate to the second? I thought the genetics are what they are and growth potential is throttled primarily by available nutrients and water. Is that incorrect?
My clone tissue seems to be growing out well and looks healthy and isolated. I was pretty happy with myself until I read Brennus' post.
Can someone flesh this out a little for me?
Does anyone have experience cloning fruits from later flushes?
Edited by betaWP (05/30/15 05:48 PM)
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: On cloning from late flushes [Re: betaWP]
#21741975 - 05/30/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Later flushes show genetics that were too slow or weak to form fruit on the first flush.
Would you want a culture that takes forever to pin or one that pins readily?
Large fruits in later flushes is a last ditch dying effort to reproduce. Putting all its resources into a few remaining fruits, it will not translate to fruits that size on first flushes of later grows.
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PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
Posts: 9,981
Loc: Rocky Point R.I
Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
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Re: On cloning from late flushes [Re: Ghatti]
#21742002 - 05/30/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You want to clone the largest, healthiest, fastest growing fruit from a cluster preferably off your first flush. Those are the optimal genetics
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Messy_Lion
Bioinformatician

Registered: 07/08/14
Posts: 23
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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I will only comment on "aging cell lines", the rest has been more or less covered above. I have to go into a bit of biology here, but I'll try and keep it simple.
Telomeres are regions of DNA found on the ends of chromosomes. These regions do not encode any genes, they are there for the purpose of protecting the DNA from degradation. Over time, the telomeres are degraded by normal cell processes, instead of DNA that contains valuable information. Most species cannot replace telomeres faster than they are degraded. When the telomeres are sufficiently degraded, the important DNA begins to degrade, obviously this can cause big problems, including the cell death.
If you take old mycelium, it is likely that the telomeres have suffered some degradation (i.e. "aged" cell lines). There is no absolute amount of cell division that heralds the loss of telomeres, but hopefully you can see why younger mycelium is better to clone; The younger the mycelium the more cell divisions it can undergo, so younger mycelium is more suitable for cloning and spawning.
This whole telomere business has little to do with the reasons mentioned above, but I think it answers part of your question. Using the good genetics that come with fast fruiting clusters will also provide young mycelium with lengthy telomeres left to protect that valuable DNA!
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poofterFroth
Feel Like A Stranger



Registered: 03/15/14
Posts: 1,012
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
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Re: On cloning from late flushes [Re: Messy_Lion]
#21742412 - 05/30/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is it possible that cloning hopeful specimens from later flushes could actually result in an intelligent mycelium thats optimized for superiour subsequent flushes?
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betaWP
PE, Chitwan, AA+, ATL7


Registered: 02/24/15
Posts: 31
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: On cloning from late flushes [Re: betaWP]
#21742581 - 05/30/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I really appreciate the feedback. Thank you so much for the education, Messy, that's exactly what I was looking for.
I was kind of hoping this would work for me since I've been haven't been able to get spores to germinate on agar. Oh, well.
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