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OfflineArenis
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War is inevitable!
    #21739377 - 05/30/15 12:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Unfiltered info

Discuss. This website has long been dead on on most things and it's last few days dont sound too nice.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Arenis]
    #21739648 - 05/30/15 02:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

the war started long ago!!
check the history of the last 10 years.

it needs no formal declaration... the world is at war.
no need to wait till its on your doorstep... plenty of places shits got real fast!!

what shits me is them north africans stayed in that shit hole country when there was no food, home and rain ect watching there children starve to death... but they stayed.

now thousands and thousands are on the move from the area like rats leaving a sinking ship.
makes me thinks things are worse than we know or are being told/shown!!

i also worry heavily about the suez canal falling into the wrong hands before a full blown ww3.
it could be very strategic to hold that area... especially for the navy. imagine having to go all the way around the cape of south africa very time consuming for military movements.

im sure china and russia defo have their eyes on it!!
would serve them well to have it if they stay strong allies
it would be a strong safe supply route and a gateway to the med sea.
also only leaves limited options for naval attack to there part of the world, and if we didnt have the canal they know wich way we coming from with plenty of warning!!
and gives them ample time to plan and defend such ways of attack.
taking the canal splits naval warfare into 2 open areans in my opinion.
then it would all rely on strenght and who can keep supplied the longest.
leaving us no option to draw them out to fight away from supply routes, which they wouldnt do- so creating a stalemate situation that would only prolong things and cancel the navy out of the action and so weakening our position.

would be an easy goal to aim for too with all the unrest in the arab states and is a good and clever military tactic and away of putting distance (water) between your army/home country and the enemys, good for defence and makes your enemy work harder and use more resourses for less gain( suez canal is a major trade route for europe that we rely on- stopping the route would cause a great shortfall and would eventually lead to a rationing system in the uk once again as supplies are constricted and forced to add months on to the ships journey to europe)
think about the vietnam war and we see how making your enemy work harder can even out the battle and can make a small force of soldiers a formiddible oponent that drains resourses and prolongs the war.
i see the victor of ww3 being the side that controls and has the most resourses and also makes the most of these ( im not talking military resourses)

am i the only nutter who can see this happening!!:kingtard:


Edited by mustangbob3 (05/30/15 03:57 AM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: mustangbob3] * 1
    #21741716 - 05/30/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We may be at war with china soon. They are building military bases on islands in the china sea area claimed by many nations. They warn usa flights they are not allowed to fly over, but we fly over anyway. Soon as they fire on us, its going to get ugly. I don't think obumble will attack the Chinese mainland but you never know with that goof. If they shoot down some of our aircraft, sink some ships, it will escalate rapidly. China has more force in the area, they are more likely to win. Then do we attack bases on the mainland? That's all out war and the icbm's will follow.

We have pledged to uphold the rights of our allies in the region, japan, s korea, and others with interests. Can we afford to wimp out or are we prepared for war?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21744298 - 05/31/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you think any US president would declare war on China over a downed spy plane, you need to pick up a history book.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21745450 - 05/31/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

NINE (9) Divisions to take on Russia?

It will take a lot more then that.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Arenis]
    #21755372 - 06/02/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Agreed. War is coming.

The false economic recovery is faltering. Something big will be needed to deflect attention and pitchforks away from corrupt politicians and their elite puppet masters when the bottom really starts falling out this Fall ..

War is the classic playbook they always go to.

It accomplishes several things: 1) It galvanizes the country behind the leaders, 2) It occupies restless young people who'd otherwise be burning everything down, and 3) It allows the government to crush dissent as "unpatriotic".

But first some minor skirmishes must be fought to lay the groundwork.

One is capital controls and another is the looming War on Cash.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: zorbman]
    #21774152 - 06/07/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Not necessarily. Theres several factors that cant prevent economically induced warfare. The most major is a break through in alternative energy sources. Another is social forces. Were very aware of how devestating modern warfare would be. There would be no real winners in any general conflict in this day and age. Theres also a modern renaissance thats going to come to fruition with in the next few decades. Automation is going to recreate the exact same conditions that spawned the industrial revolution and lead to a radical paradigm shift globally. All of these forces make predicting whether or not theres gonna be another state of generalized warfare very hard to predict. Currently no one is heading in that direction.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21774394 - 06/07/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>modern renaissance thats going to come to fruition with in the next few decades

Bodhi, that exact same thing has been said for about 100 years and we are no closer to it. The more people have the more they want.

>Theres several factors that cant prevent economically induced warfare.

That's true. While war is stupid, the usa practices it constantly. If we can't rise above it how is anyone else going to?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineGrimley
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21774520 - 06/07/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>modern renaissance thats going to come to fruition with in the next few decades

Bodhi, that exact same thing has been said for about 100 years and we are no closer to it. The more people have the more they want.

>Theres several factors that cant prevent economically induced warfare.

That's true. While war is stupid, the usa practices it constantly. If we can't rise above it how is anyone else going to?




Yeah, and the EU is much better (sarcasm). Don't think the us is a "one of a kind examples". Most countrys in Europe has Soldiers in some ongoing war, including mine. Theire all the same, those leaders... Fucking fascist!


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Routine is lethal!


Edited by Grimley (06/07/15 03:05 PM)


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21775295 - 06/07/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Automation, specifically the automation of vehicles is going to leave an estimated 10 million people out of a job in the usa. That alone is going to put enormous strain on the economy and social atmosphere of the country. Vehicles arnt the only thing being automated either. Jobs are being phased out faster and faster day by day. Its already reached the point where more are lost to automation then gained per year. This is a massive shift in power, and I dont think people will remain quiet about it while the technology and its scope matures over the next few decades.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21775765 - 06/07/15 08:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Bodhi, you sound just like the people at the early 20th century who sounded just like those when the industrial revolution came about and we still have them today. The car will put carriage builder, livery people, and buggy whip makers out of business. TV will mean theaters must go as well as radio. The tractor will put thousand of farmers into the poorhouse. Those are just a few things that were said.

They also said that about automation ever since there was automation. If a machine can do the job of 20 people, then the price of goods go down benefitting all. Those who were doing the old job will get new jobs making machines. When those jobs are automated there will be other jobs. How many openings for IT people were there 30 years ago? Not many but now its a hot field.

What if one machine could do all the work on earth and build new machines and repair itself? Would everyone be out of a job? No, we would all be rich and share in the abundance. Someone has to buy the goods or perhaps they will be free or almost free? Think about that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21776146 - 06/07/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That only works up to a point. There already is a distinct shortage of jobs vs people who are capable of working. There is an estimated 8 million people who are currently unemployed. Which is an extremely generous number because it doesnt take into account part-timers or temp positions. Something thats a lot more indicative of the situation is people living below the poverty line, which is around 45 million. The number of open job postings as of right now is only 4 million. Throw in the 10 million middle class workers on top of that and suddenly theres a major shift in the economy. Huge loss of tax dollars and economic stimulus. So now theres 55 million or around 16 percent of the US population living in abject poverty. Coupled with the massive increase in disparity automation is going to drive and you have a festering problem in the way we govern ourselves. Not only is automation slowly going to eliminate almost every factory job out there, its going to rid us of tons of other jobs including customer service areas thatll be phased out by passable AI. If you think having 40% of your population out of a job and in poverty while the rest live in absolute extravagance you're a little naive. There will be huge shifts in the way we operate as a society. I say that because it wont just effect the US, its going to be global among developed countries.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] * 1
    #21777974 - 06/08/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Theres several factors that cant prevent economically induced warfare.




What I was referring to by "War on Cash" is not economic warfare, although I would argue that has already begun, but an actual move to ban physical cash. Europe is teetering already -- they, like us, never recovered from the 2008 economic crisis -- and I believe that this Fall they will start to collapse hard. There's already a run on Greek banks.

No cash? No bank runs. It also allows governments to track and tax everything. The people aren't spending enough? You can be forced to spend by taking it right out of your bank account. Don't think they'll do that? Ask the folks in Cyprus. That was the dress rehearsal.

As for modern warfare being unthinkable, I beg to disagree. All out nuclear war? Maybe not. But that may not be necessary, especially with proxy wars. When economies tank, they always take you to war. Just like in the Great Depression. You had the rise of Stalin, Mao, and Hitler and WWII followed. Hopefully the next big war won't have a III behind it.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21778131 - 06/08/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>There already is a distinct shortage of jobs vs people who are capable of working. There is an estimated 8 million people who are currently unemployed. Which is an extremely generous number because it doesnt take into account part-timers or temp positions.

What?? Obumble says unemployment is below 6%. Are you calling him a liar? That's racist.

>There will be huge shifts in the way we operate as a society.

Now you are on the right track. More automation means more productivity which eventually translates into prosperity. There was a little dislocation when machines first came out and its continuing.

zorb, good points.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21778234 - 06/08/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Socialism is the only feasible end result I see, assuming we remain a representative democracy.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21778250 - 06/08/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Socialism is the only feasible end result I see, assuming we remain a representative democracy.






One problem;  socialism isn't actually feasible.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21778274 - 06/08/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Except where it already is feasible.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21778372 - 06/08/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, since ss is fully funded there is a shining example of socialism being feasible. Oh wait, its funded with worthless iou's. Never mind. Ok, lets look at the post office then, but its losing money every year. Help me here, fal, show us where socialism works?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21778437 - 06/08/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: zorbman]
    #21778513 - 06/08/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thats impossible. Its simply a different distribution model of taxfunds. Not to mention the military is the best model of socialism out there, and theyre not gonna run out of money anytime soon. Shes another aristicratic goon keeping the interests of banks and the elite at the forefront of society. She holds no loyalty to the common man.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21778543 - 06/08/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>the military is the best model of socialism out there, and theyre not gonna run out of money anytime soon.

You really believe that? The military is one of the most wasteful, corrupt, inefficient organizations there are. I suppose we are doing good in the middle east blowing up everything in sight?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21778642 - 06/08/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Im not even gonna validate that with an argument.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21778891 - 06/08/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Except where it already is feasible.  :shrug:




Nowhere.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21778904 - 06/08/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Except where it already is feasible.  :shrug:




Nowhere.
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Thats impossible. Its simply a different distribution model of taxfunds. Not to mention the military is the best model of socialism out there, and theyre not gonna run out of money anytime soon. Shes another aristicratic goon keeping the interests of banks and the elite at the forefront of society. She holds no loyalty to the common man.




1. Military is not socialism, doof.

2. The government is borrowing money it doesn't have to pay for the military, so yeah they ran out od money a long time ago, doof.

3. The banks love socialists, socialists were the ones who made laws that allowed banks to get so bog, and socialists are the onea borrowing trillions of sollars from the banks to fund social programs.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21779281 - 06/08/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Shins is correct, bod has tossed in the towel.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21781320 - 06/08/15 11:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Shins said:
socialism isn't actually feasible.



Except where it already is feasible.  :shrug:



Help me here, fal, show us where socialism works?



Here are some of the most socialist countries in the world:

◾Denmark
◾Finland
◾Netherlands
◾Canada
◾Sweden
◾Norway
◾Ireland
◾New Zealand
◾Belgium

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yeah, since ss is fully funded there is a shining example of socialism being feasible. Oh wait, its funded with worthless iou's. Never mind.



Social security was never fully funded, nor was it ever set up to be that way; that's a myth.  It gets funded each year by workers who are paying into it.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Ok, lets look at the post office then, but its losing money every year.



It's only losing money because republicans are forcing it to prefund its future health care benefit payments to retirees for the next 75 years in a ten-year time span.  That's a swell idea, but it can't be done.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: zorbman]
    #21781322 - 06/08/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:




Shows how dumb she is.  Money doesn't "run out".  It gets circulated as it gets spent.  The more circulation, the better the economy does.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21781339 - 06/08/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
1. Military is not socialism, doof.



News flash.  The military is not a private enterprise.  It belongs to the Government/people.

Quote:

Shins said:
2. The government is borrowing money it doesn't have to pay for the military, so yeah they ran out od money a long time ago, doof.



The Government is borrowing money because it's not collecting enough taxes to pay for everything, but it's still spending just fine.

Quote:

Shins said:
3. The banks love socialists, socialists were the ones who made laws that allowed banks to get so bog, and socialists are the onea borrowing trillions of sollars from the banks to fund social programs.



Please explain how socialism helped the banks.  I'm pretty sure you're confusing socialism with cronyism.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21781937 - 06/09/15 07:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shows how dumb she is.  Money doesn't "run out".




Yes, that would be dumb. Notice she didn't say that. She said "other people's money" runs out. In other words, the economy eventually fails because government is redistributing wealth from the most productive parts of the economy to the least productive. Governments don't grow economies; the private sector does.

And as the government grows larger and larger, it consumes more and more of the productive capacity of the people until the economy eventually crashes under the weight of the debt created by socialism. That is where we are today. And that's about when you get a nice, big war.

Also, she inherited an economic basketcase and turned it around. I think most people would consider that to be pretty smart.

Quote:

It gets circulated as it gets spent.  The more circulation, the better the economy does




Agreed. It's known as the Velocity of Money. Let's take a look at where it stands today. This is a chart of the VOM since the Great Depression.

Spot the trend..



--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (06/09/15 07:22 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: zorbman]
    #21783365 - 06/09/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Shows how dumb she is.  Money doesn't "run out".



Yes, that would be dumb. Notice she didn't say that. She said "other people's money" runs out. In other words, the economy eventually fails because government is redistributing wealth from the most productive parts of the economy to the least productive. Governments don't grow economies; the private sector does.



"Other people's money" doesn't run out either.  Do you think productive people are the only ones who spend money?

Money people get from Government goes right back into the economy when it is spent.

Quote:

zorbman said:
And as the government grows larger and larger, it consumes more and more of the productive capacity of the people until the economy eventually crashes under the weight of the debt created by socialism.



Debt isn't created by socialism.  It's created by not raising enough taxes to cover expenses.  :facepalm3:

Reagan was the one who started increasing the national deficit because he preferred to give millionaires and billionaires huge tax breaks instead of balancing the budget.

And spending doesn't 'consume productive capacity'.  It stimulates it.

Quote:

zorbman said:
That is where we are today. And that's about when you get a nice, big war.



So now you're agreeing that Government spending is good for the economy???

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The more money in circulation, the better the economy does



Agreed. It's known as the Velocity of Money. Let's take a look at where it stands today. This is a chart of the VOM since the Great Depression.

Spot the trend..





The trend is Reagan fucked things up, and we've never recovered.  :shrug:

Then W. Bush really fucked things up again.  Those are the two places the graph really turns south.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #21783388 - 06/09/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Falcon velocity of money is not the only indicator of good economy.    Random consumption and misallocated money hurts the economy.  Proper allocation of money is done through a feee market based on supply and demand, simply spending money regardless of what matket demand is is not good for an economy.  Why is this so hard for you phony keynsians to understand?


--------------------
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21783413 - 06/09/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Falcon velocity of money is not the only indicator of good economy.    Random consumption and misallocated money hurts the economy.  Proper allocation of money is done through a feee market based on supply and demand, simply spending money regardless of what matket demand is is not good for an economy.  Why is this so hard for you phony keynsians to understand?




Well said


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21783444 - 06/09/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Falcon velocity of money is not the only indicator of good economy.    Random consumption and misallocated money hurts the economy.



Agreed.  Spending too much on the military rather than infrastructure is a massive misallocation of resources, and republicans are primarily to blame.

Quote:

Shins said:
Proper allocation of money is done through a feee market based on supply and demand, simply spending money regardless of what matket demand is is not good for an economy.  Why is this so hard for you phony keynsians to understand?



Because the real world has proven you wrong time and time again.  See World War II as an example of how spending massive amounts of money helps an economy.

Keynesianism is what all the top colleges now teach.  Empirical evidence doesn't lie.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21783461 - 06/09/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>Agreed.  Spending too much on the military rather than infrastructure is a massive misallocation of resources,

Obviously

> and republicans are primarily to blame.

Back on your dems are wonderful kick. In case you forgot, obumble has been pushing war since he started, last I heard he was a dem or did he switch? Dems voted for all the wars.

>See World War II as an example of how spending massive amounts of money helps an economy.

This is your evidence that throwing money around is always a good thing? We were under attack and could not avoid it. Earlier you were against spending money on the military, now you think its great, make up your mind.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21783551 - 06/09/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

So now you're agreeing that Government spending is good for the economy???




You must have missed where I said earlier that governments take you to war when the economy turns down hard in order to deflect attention away from their failed policies. It has nothing to do with spending.

It's a myth that war spending is good for the economy. A popular one that has and will get a lot of people killed.

Quote:

See World War II as an example of how spending massive amounts of money helps an economy.




No, the U.S. economy recovered only after WWII because most of the countries in Europe -- where the war was waged -- were devastated, their factories and infrastructure destroyed, leaving the U.S. left standing as the world's sole superpower.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (06/09/15 05:43 PM)


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: zorbman]
    #21784373 - 06/09/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Just because colleges yeach keynsian economics does not mean that it is "evidence" it works.  Are you really daft enough to presume that?

Spending money on infrastructure is not necessarily beneficial, what a retarded thing to say. 

Let me spell this our for you clearly; not you nor all the college professors not john maynard keynes himself is smart enough or informed enough to dictate what proper spending is.  You have what is called a "pretense of knowledge"  you are arrogant enough to think you know what is best for eveyone, but you do not and never will.  The free market has a thing called prices - in a free market prices are set organically and collectively in the market and they are -indicators- to where spending is benificial to an economy or not.  You keynsian socialists completely ignore the market and go on with your phony pet projects, allthewhile distoring supply and demand and misallocating resources - wasting them and making it impossible for businesses to plan for the future reliably.  You inflate asset bubbles which pop and cause depressions.  How you could ever advocate such a broken and corrupt system puts your character into question.


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Re: War is inevitable! *DELETED* [Re: Shins]
    #21784384 - 06/09/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by zorbman<p>Reason for deletion: ..


--------------------
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: zorbman]
    #21784391 - 06/09/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Are you replying to me?




No, fal.

reply fail.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21784449 - 06/09/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fal is not all bad but he is a dedicated supporter of pc and failed liberal policies. Young fools in college naturally gravitate toward defunct political systems like socialism and communism. They will deny that and call it something else but that is what it is.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21785253 - 06/09/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
See World War II as an example of how spending massive amounts of money helps an economy.



This is your evidence that throwing money around is always a good thing? We were under attack and could not avoid it. Earlier you were against spending money on the military, now you think its great, make up your mind.



I AM against military spending.  The point was that massive Government spending has been proven to help the economy.  Of course it helps even more if you direct that spending on things that not only benefit the people receiving the money, but on things that everyone else gets to benefit from as well, like highways, schools, public transportation, etc.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Young fools in college naturally gravitate toward defunct political systems like socialism and communism. They will deny that and call it something else but that is what it is.



You go from saying intelligent things, to ridiculous things.  College graduates do not gravitate towards socialism and communism, though perhaps they don't fear it as much as others.  I'm a liberal capitalist no matter what you want to call me.  I work in the Silicon Valley, which is one of the wealthiest places in the country, and which is also heavily liberal, with a highly educated population.  Do you think the Silicon Valley wants socialism?  No thanks, we're doing just fine with capitalism.  Watch "Silicon Valley" on HBO if you want a peek into what life is like here.  Granted, it's a comedy, but it has a tremendous amount of truth to it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21785375 - 06/09/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

> College graduates do not gravitate towards socialism and communism, though perhaps they don't fear it as much as others

You just validated what I said. You call it something else but love socialism with a touch of capitalism.

>The point was that massive Government spending has been proven to help the economy.

All spending benefits the economy. The question is, is the cost of this spending worth it?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: zorbman]
    #21785400 - 06/09/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
It's a myth that war spending is good for the economy. A popular one that has and will get a lot of people killed.



As noted in my last post above, I agree it's one of the worst ways to spend money.  But big spending helps the economy nonetheless (why would it not?)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
See World War II as an example of how spending massive amounts of money helps an economy.



No, the U.S. economy recovered only after WWII because most of the countries in Europe -- where the war was waged -- were devastated, their factories and infrastructure destroyed, leaving the U.S. left standing as the world's sole superpower.



No, the Great Depression ended at the start of WWII, and the US economy had completely recovered by the end of the war.

Europe recovered from the war by the 50's, yet the US economy continued to grow well into the 70's thanks to New Deal policies.  It wasn't until the 80s that middle class growth finally ended.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21785480 - 06/09/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Just because colleges yeach keynsian economics does not mean that it is "evidence" it works.  Are you really daft enough to presume that?



I guess you've not familiar with something known as 'the scientific method'?  It's what colleges use to determine what they teach.

Quote:

Shins said:
Spending money on infrastructure is not necessarily beneficial, what a retarded thing to say.



Thanks for that wonderful explanation.  I totally get it now.  :facepalm:

Of course it's beneficial.  The people building roads get jobs and spending money, businesses can use the roads for commerce, people can use the roads for travel...  If ad hominem attacks is all you can argue with, you're in the wrong forum.

Quote:

Shins said:
Let me spell this our for you clearly; not you nor all the college professors not john maynard keynes himself is smart enough or informed enough to dictate what proper spending is.  You have what is called a "pretense of knowledge"  you are arrogant enough to think you know what is best for eveyone, but you do not and never will.



And your qualifications to think you know better than professors who spend their whole lives studying this are what exactly???

Quote:

Shins said:
The free market has a thing called prices - in a free market prices are set organically and collectively in the market and they are -indicators- to where spending is benificial to an economy or not.  You keynsian socialists completely ignore the market and go on with your phony pet projects, allthewhile distoring supply and demand and misallocating resources - wasting them and making it impossible for businesses to plan for the future reliably.



So in your mind, Government shouldn't fund things like schools?  Education is only for people born into wealth?  A fine system you propose.

Quote:

Shins said:
You inflate asset bubbles which pop and cause depressions.  How you could ever advocate such a broken and corrupt system puts your character into question.



Apparently you don't understand what caused the housing bubble.  Banks lowered lending standards to everyone because they could resell their mortgages to people that didn't understand the risks.  Why not?  Lots of profit, and no risk.  That's what businesses do in an unregulated free market!


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21786015 - 06/09/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And the socialists central bsnk and governments of america made legislation andnloans which allowed them to do so.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21786044 - 06/09/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Banks don't make legislation, and besides that, it was a lack of legislation that allowed them to do so.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21786369 - 06/10/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
And the socialists central bsnk and governments of america made legislation andnloans which allowed them to do so.




Drunk as fuck.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21787479 - 06/10/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>Banks don't make legislation

Lol at the naivete. In another thread you were arguing that big money controlled politics.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21787512 - 06/10/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Banks don't make legislation



Lol at the naivete. In another thread you were arguing that big money controlled politics.



Perhaps I should have said the Federal Reserve doesn't make legislation.


--------------------
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21787584 - 06/10/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Banks don't make legislation.




:trollhide:


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21787816 - 06/10/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Banks don't make legislation



Lol at the naivete. In another thread you were arguing that big money controlled politics.



Perhaps I should have said the Federal Reserve doesn't make legislation.



 

The federal reserve is the biggest of the big banks, and represents its shareholders,; the big banks.

"give me control of a nations money supply and I care not who makes the laws"  - amschel Rothschild.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21791009 - 06/10/15 11:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The federal reserve is the biggest of the big banks, and represents its shareholders,; the big banks.



:wtf:  The big banks do NOT own the Federal Reserve.


--------------------
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21792047 - 06/11/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Shins said:
The federal reserve is the biggest of the big banks, and represents its shareholders,; the big banks.



:wtf:  The big banks do NOT own the Federal Reserve.





They own Federal reserve stocks and elect board members.

The Federal Reserve was the Idea of the big banks and was created to protect them.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Shins]
    #21792119 - 06/11/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The board members are appointed by the President.  The banks don't elect them.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Enlil]
    #21792372 - 06/11/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The board members are appointed by the President.  The banks don't elect them.





Some are, some are appointed  by the banks.

regardless,  the big banks are Federal reserve shareholders.  It is a requirement to buy fed stocks to be a bank.


the federal reserve was created by banks,  for banks to protect themselves from their own ponzi schemes after they collapse into bank runs.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Enlil]
    #21792449 - 06/11/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The board members are appointed by the President.




From a list thoughtfully provided by financial institutions, including members of the Federal Reserve. :wink:


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Enlil]
    #21793567 - 06/11/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The board members are appointed by the President.  The banks don't elect them.




What a relief.


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21804929 - 06/14/15 04:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

have any of you seen this?
what do you think of it?
real or fake?



seems after this threat america is on the backfoot in alot of areas!
not based on this report alone.. fact check sources and find your own truth.
coincidence?
why are they now so quick to appease putin?

im really starting to hate this system :sad:
i dont know what to think!
i feel like a jew in nazi germany but we have no country to escape to for a better life for our familys.

i fear as things are going its too late and we are heading for something... war i dont know?

maybe putin is a hero and we all should be kissing his ass as he has done the most to destabalize the imf, rothschilds, bankers and big corporation ect.

he is doing what we all should and standing up to the tyrants who are putting their fingers into every pie!


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Re: War is inevitable! [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21805053 - 06/14/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
have any of you seen this?
what do you think of it?
real or fake?



seems after this threat america is on the backfoot in alot of areas!
not based on this report alone.. fact check sources and find your own truth.
coincidence?
why are they now so quick to appease putin?

im really starting to hate this system :sad:
i dont know what to think!
i feel like a jew in nazi germany but we have no country to escape to for a better life for our familys.

i fear as things are going its too late and we are heading for something... war i dont know?

maybe putin is a hero and we all should be kissing his ass as he has done the most to destabalize the imf, rothschilds, bankers and big corporation ect.

he is doing what we all should and standing up to the tyrants who are putting their fingers into every pie!






:lol: Nonsense. No one is being treated like a Jew in Nazi Germany. I'm assuming you live in the US.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: War is inevitable! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21805057 - 06/14/15 06:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

lol no im in the uk.
and i didnt say i was treated or anyone else is like a jew in nazi germany.

only that i find myself in a similar position in my mind and that is who do you trust.

the parallels dont need to be drawn up.

the situation in the mind is the same and citizens are forced to make these decisions of what side they are on!

stay apart of system and think that its all nonsense.
or to do the opposite just incase.

we know how it turned out for the jews who thought it wasnt and couldnt happen.

its a very similar situation.
who do you trust.

and if you make the wrong decision what will the unforeseeable outcomes.

even without being subjected to anything we all are in this situation if we like it or not!


what decision will you make?

me myself have no idea what is for the best for everyone and the best for my children


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (06/14/15 06:21 AM)


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