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Offlinefreeofcharge
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Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer
    #21735314 - 05/29/15 01:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Does mycelium use oxygen or co2 to colonization ?
I've just found a h2o liquid which has more than 10 times oxygen in it than normal water, so I'm wondering if mycelium need oxygen or co2 to colonization ?


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21735325 - 05/29/15 01:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

For colonization high CO2 (with some gas exchange otherwise it might suffocate) is optimal. In fruiting, Oxygen is needed so the mycelium can breathe more.

What is this liquid called exactly? I doubt it'll actually help the mycelium. Water is water


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Offlinefreeofcharge
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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: Achillita]
    #21735354 - 05/29/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

An inventor in my country has produced a water containing 70 bpm oxygen in it ( normal water has only 6 or 7 ). I'm gonna use it for my liquid culture and will post the results, but in my liquid culture there is no co2 for sure ? any suggestion about the co2 ? will this work ?


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21735360 - 05/29/15 01:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

fungus breathes takes in oxygen and exhales co2


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinefreeofcharge
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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21735374 - 05/29/15 01:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I am a brewer also and I'v had used it for increasing the yeast cells, the  colonization speed had increased up to 4 times, Had a huge succeed.


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Offlinefreeofcharge
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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21735378 - 05/29/15 01:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
fungus breathes takes in oxygen and exhales co2



So I think it might works well


Edited by freeofcharge (05/29/15 01:58 AM)


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21735387 - 05/29/15 02:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid:
Honestly, I have no idea how fungi would respond to the oxygenated water. What's the current use for it, or is it just drinking water?

Maybe do some tests :shrug: If it actually has oxygen then it might be beneficial. But honestly I have no idea. Wait for someone with better knowledge to chime in.

Quote:

freeofcharge said:
I am a brewer also and I'v had used it for increasing the yeast cells, the  colonization speed had increased up to 4 times, Had a huge succeed.



If it worked with yeast, it might work with mycelium. Experiments must be done!


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Offlinefreeofcharge
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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: Achillita]
    #21735408 - 05/29/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
:whathesaid:
Honestly, I have no idea how fungi would respond to the oxygenated water. What's the current use for it, or is it just drinking water?

Maybe do some tests :shrug: If it actually has oxygen then it might be beneficial. But honestly I have no idea. Wait for someone with better knowledge to chime in.

Quote:

freeofcharge said:
I am a brewer also and I'v had used it for increasing the yeast cells, the  colonization speed had increased up to 4 times, Had a huge succeed.



If it worked with yeast, it might work with mycelium. Experiments must be done!



Yes it is a drinking water, lucky for me it has been also sealed and sterilized, cause you can't pc them, when the heat getting up the oxygen would release, if u sealed the bottles they will crack, if you don't you just lose the oxygen. My method is to pc the dextrose or honey separately then with a syringe suck the water out of water bottle and add to them.


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21735417 - 05/29/15 02:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Are you sure the water has been pre sterilized? If so, make sure the syringe is sterilized as well.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: Achillita]
    #21735431 - 05/29/15 02:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
Are you sure the water has been pre sterilized? If so, make sure the syringe is sterilized as well.



No I'm not sure but I hope that, cause it's for drinking and has been sealed. There shouldn't be any contamination into it and also had worked very well with no contamination in my wine.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21735614 - 05/29/15 05:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What is your source for this miraculous substance


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21735627 - 05/29/15 05:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

freeofcharge said:
Quote:

Achillita said:
Are you sure the water has been pre sterilized? If so, make sure the syringe is sterilized as well.



No I'm not sure but I hope that, cause it's for drinking and has been sealed. There shouldn't be any contamination into it and also had worked very well with no contamination in my wine.





Yea.... no. Drinking water is not sterile especially bottled water.

An infectious disease doctor once that you should never shoot drugs with bottled water, and to actually choose the tap.

You will have to sterilize this water before you use it for anything. It is not sterile.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: mushpunx]
    #21735640 - 05/29/15 05:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm just curious, honestly what's the point of oxygenated drink water? Isn't the point of water, you know to have water?


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: Achillita]
    #21735791 - 05/29/15 06:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
I'm just curious, honestly what's the point of oxygenated drink water? Isn't the point of water, you know to have water?





Just a gimmick to sell water I guess. :shrug:


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: mushpunx]
    #21736183 - 05/29/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

H2O with more O in it? Sounds like peroxide haha H2O2...


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21736191 - 05/29/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i THINK its more, o2 trapped between the h2o...

like if you were to chill water down to just before expansion... then pressurized a chamber with o2 and sealed the water....

i just dont think it would last long at atmospheric pressure.

and could it give you the benz?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21736195 - 05/29/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

that's what I thought at first too greenrabbit, but then he said a bunch more O's
so I figured that stuff can't be stable. at all.
thinking once it reacts with air (as in you open the bottle) it'll just revert back to whatever it feels like being (h2o/h2o2).


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736196 - 05/29/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

for instance... soda isnt h2co3 its h2o+co2


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736203 - 05/29/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yea I was kind of joking.. O2 being dissolved into the water would be quite pointless though. Mushrooms get their oxygen from the air not from their water source. I suppose you could have a O2 tank and have that feed straight oxygen into your FC to supplement the FAE. But that sounds like a terrible idea haha.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21736207 - 05/29/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

all experiments should be run.

some are dumb.

this one isnt dumb... i just doubt it makes a big difference.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736225 - 05/29/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
for instance... soda isnt h2co3 its h2o+co2




pretty sure its both man. carbonic acid in water will be in equilibrium
and create hco3-, h3o+ and co3(2-) and go back again, done in 2 steps.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736236 - 05/29/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
all experiments should be run.

some are dumb.

this one isnt dumb... i just doubt it makes a big difference.




Yea I intentionally avoided saying it was dumb.. Well, the higher oxygen water thing is probably ineffective, but when growing weed, people have CO2 tanks in the room so an oxygen supplement might be beneficial.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: spacechildo]
    #21736248 - 05/29/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

rxb said:
for instance... soda isnt h2co3 its h2o+co2




pretty sure its both man. carbonic acid in water will be in equilibrium
and create hco3-, h3o+ and co3(2-) and go back again, done in 2 steps.




i did not know that.

there are other solutions that would have been a better example then :smile:


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736255 - 05/29/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think H2O and O2 would react chemically. Both are stable molecules, the O2 just leaves if you leave a bottle of peroxide open.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21736300 - 05/29/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

yeah but i dont think you can make h2o2 by bubbling in o2 either

you can evap h2o2 and get higher percentage h2o2...

soo...

shrug


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736419 - 05/29/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You can't change molecular formula by adding something that does not do reaction, it's just water + more oxygen, also wouldn't last long when you open the bottle, BUT if you suck it with a syringe and transfer to another sealed bottle the oxygen will release lesser and would still stay in the bottle then you have more oxygen. This idea came out to me when i was reading a method to increase the yeast cells, the method generally was saying if you do have more oxygen to your yeast liquid than 6 ppm you will have more yeast and more speed, also it was explaining how a yeast laboratory would increase the oxygen by adding oxygen pills to the liquid to goal that purpose. and then I found out this product and used it with succeed.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736422 - 05/29/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
yeah but i dont think you can make h2o2 by bubbling in o2 either

shrug




You can't. That's what I was saying, both molecules are stable and won't interact. It takes a free O atom and added energy to make H2O take on that extra O. Likewise you can't make H2O2 by combining H2 and O2 as both of those are stable as well.

Quote:

rxb said:

you can evap h2o2 and get higher percentage h2o2...





No, I think you would get a lower percentage H2O2. H2O2 will react when exposed to air and the extra O atom will pop off. This happens much faster than the evaporation of the H2O so you will never get a higher concentration of H2O2 by leaving it sitting out.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21736423 - 05/29/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

freeofcharge said:
You can't change molecular formula by adding something that does not do reaction, it's just water + more oxygen, also wouldn't last long when you open the bottle, BUT if you suck it with a syringe and transfer to another sealed bottle the oxygen will release lesser and would still stay in the bottle then you have more oxygen. This idea came out to me when i was reading a method to increase the yeast cells, the method generally was saying if you do have more oxygen to your yeast liquid than 6 ppm you will have more yeast and more speed, also it was explaining how a yeast laboratory would increase the oxygen by adding oxygen pills to the liquid to goal that purpose. and then I found out this product and used it with succeed.




This might be valid for yeast, but as I mentioned earlier, mushrooms don't get their oxygen from the water, they get it from the atmosphere.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21736433 - 05/29/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

rxb said:
yeah but i dont think you can make h2o2 by bubbling in o2 either

shrug




You can't. That's what I was saying, both molecules are stable and won't interact. It takes a free O atom and added energy to make H2O take on that extra O. Likewise you can't make H2O2 by combining H2 and O2 as both of those are stable as well.

Quote:

rxb said:

you can evap h2o2 and get higher percentage h2o2...





No, I think you would get a lower percentage H2O2. H2O2 will react when exposed to air and the extra O atom will pop off. This happens much faster than the evaporation of the H2O so you will never get a higher concentration of H2O2 by leaving it sitting out.




the guy with the jet pack makes his fuel by concentrating off the shelf peroxide (saw this on penn and teller tell a lie, and wasnt the lie atleast i dont THINK it was the lie )


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21736455 - 05/29/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

freeofcharge said:
You can't change molecular formula by adding something that does not do reaction, it's just water + more oxygen, also wouldn't last long when you open the bottle, BUT if you suck it with a syringe and transfer to another sealed bottle the oxygen will release lesser and would still stay in the bottle then you have more oxygen. This idea came out to me when i was reading a method to increase the yeast cells, the method generally was saying if you do have more oxygen to your yeast liquid than 6 ppm you will have more yeast and more speed, also it was explaining how a yeast laboratory would increase the oxygen by adding oxygen pills to the liquid to goal that purpose. and then I found out this product and used it with succeed.




This might be valid for yeast, but as I mentioned earlier, mushrooms don't get their oxygen from the water, they get it from the atmosphere.




First of all the liquid culture get their oxygen from the water unless there was a lack of it so they would come to surface, second if we assume they gets from air then by this method you do have more oxygen in your bottle's air.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736502 - 05/29/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

rxb said:
yeah but i dont think you can make h2o2 by bubbling in o2 either

shrug




You can't. That's what I was saying, both molecules are stable and won't interact. It takes a free O atom and added energy to make H2O take on that extra O. Likewise you can't make H2O2 by combining H2 and O2 as both of those are stable as well.

Quote:

rxb said:

you can evap h2o2 and get higher percentage h2o2...





No, I think you would get a lower percentage H2O2. H2O2 will react when exposed to air and the extra O atom will pop off. This happens much faster than the evaporation of the H2O so you will never get a higher concentration of H2O2 by leaving it sitting out.




the guy with the jet pack makes his fuel by concentrating off the shelf peroxide (saw this on penn and teller tell a lie, and wasnt the lie atleast i dont THINK it was the lie )




Interesting. Apparently H2O2 boils at 150C  but you can't go over 100C still because water boiling will still break the weak peroxide bond. I'm not sure how effective letting it sit out would be. You would want to get rid of water as fast as possible because contact with air will break the peroxide bond too.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21736538 - 05/29/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

yeah i dont know how he accomplished it...im sure we could both look it up, but we probably would have done so by now if it was important :smile:


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: rxb]
    #21736912 - 05/29/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It wouldn't turn into H2O2.

If you wanna use it for LC, make an extra-concentrated LC solution and shoot that in proper proportion to the sterile water, not the other way around.

I would try using it to hydrate some grains and a bulk substrate. Get an isolate and do a side-by-side test with normal water. I doubt it'd change much, but that's the test that needs done.


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i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #21739793 - 05/30/15 04:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Update : Seeing white growth on the surface of LC ONLY AFTER 24 HOURS!!. I was expected the surface grow cause at this moment I think the bottle's space has more oxygen into it than the liquid. if it would be mycelium whether or not ( hope it was ), Oxygenated water incredibly has increased the speed of that organism growth. ( as like as yeast )

Post will be update after getting more results.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #21739844 - 05/30/15 05:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

freeofcharge said:
Oxygenated water incredibly has increased the speed of that organism growth. ( as like as yeast )




wow, you already did all this in just 1 day?:

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Get an isolate and do a side-by-side test with normal water.




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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: spacechildo]
    #21739857 - 05/30/15 05:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You just confused, There is no way you could use h2o2 for LC and I'm not using it. I just tried oxygenated water which means real h2o + more oxygen solved into it. ( NOT H2O2 )


Edited by freeofcharge (05/30/15 05:34 AM)


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21739860 - 05/30/15 05:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I never said anything about h2o2 or h2o + oxygen solved into it
I simply stated how amazed I am that you already have found an isolate and have tested it on both your theory and on regular water.....


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: spacechildo]
    #21739871 - 05/30/15 05:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Simply just bought an bottle of water with 60 ppm oxygen from the supermarket, PCed the dextrose, sucked the water out of the water bottle and add it to the sealed dextrose bottle then inoculated it with a syringe. saw the growth in this morning, I was expected it.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21739878 - 05/30/15 06:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

but how is the control bottle looking? Have you tested your isolate before this trial?


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: spacechildo]
    #21739911 - 05/30/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Any kind of product reference would be great. What what country are you from and how extensively is said water?-is it available stateside and is it affordable


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: lutherarkwright93]
    #21739921 - 05/30/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Oxygen doesn't increase the speed of yeast growth. They use it to synthesize sterols for their cell walls when they're in growth phase. Oxygen is very toxic to yeast, thats why most yeast propegators use air rather than O2 unless youre a rich brewery and can dial that shit in pdrfect and measure disolved oxygen. actually too high of co2 levels is also lethal as too high of O2. Pretty much they enjoy normal earth conditions


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: spacechildo]
    #21739935 - 05/30/15 06:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

rxb said:
for instance... soda isnt h2co3 its h2o+co2




pretty sure its both man. carbonic acid in water will be in equilibrium
and create hco3-, h3o+ and co3(2-) and go back again, done in 2 steps.



Carbonic acid is created but even if you shake the fuck out of soda or beer the carbonic acid stays. Any carbonic acid you make from carbonation stays in solution even if you degas the liquid. Carbonic acid will drive the PH down a little but titratable acidity will go up quite a bit.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21740568 - 05/30/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Oxygen doesn't increase the speed of yeast growth. They use it to synthesize sterols for their cell walls when they're in growth phase. Oxygen is very toxic to yeast, thats why most yeast propegators use air rather than O2 unless youre a rich brewery and can dial that shit in pdrfect and measure disolved oxygen. actually too high of co2 levels is also lethal as too high of O2. Pretty much they enjoy normal earth conditions



"It is generally safe to assume that you need at least 10ppm of oxygen.  10ppm will supply adequate oxygen in most situations.  Over-oxygenation is generally not a concern as the yeast will use all available oxygen within 3 to 9 hours of pitching and oxygen will come out of solution during that time as well.  Under-oxygenation is a much bigger concern."


Edited by freeofcharge (05/30/15 10:43 AM)


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: freeofcharge]
    #21740635 - 05/30/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

they use it a lot quicker than that.

I've cleaned up wyeast cultures before that have come less than pure. White labs is far more reliable at least the person who runs that company has a phd and expertise in microbiology. most of my job is running yeast propagation

oxygen doesn't come out of solution during that time at a measly 10ppm. oxygen is extremely soluble in de-airated wort at 68F


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21740640 - 05/30/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
growing yeast for brewing isn't as easy as you would think. it's far more easy to keep fermentations moving along and reusing and possibly washing the yeast. you can do that for 20 generations if you're very clean and your handling techniques are spot on every time

even doing that most breweries run into rampant contamination and find themselves buying new pitches or using dry yeast eventually. it's really not that easy to get your shit together well enough without a dedicated full time lab department and well trained cellermen and brewers.



wild yeast like this canada albicans species(yeast infection quite literally) can show up as well as plenty of anaerobic bacteria
if you look closely you can see a pseudo hyphae in the C.albicans it's an interesting species of yeast as it can be both yeast like and "Fungus like" it has yeast, pseudo hyphae, and actual hyphae morphologies depending.



bacteria are a real problem too, they're much easier to grow and keep around than yeast.



the requirements for good yeast growth to get counts getting above 109 cells per mL are stringent, during propagation you use oxygen for cell wall synthesis. most breweries cant handle self sustained yeast propagation you have to get into the 100,000+ bbl/year range for most breweries to get to the point of being able to get that program going. 

I highly suspect the quality of LC varies hugely among hobby growers here on the shroomery due to LC growing conditions, DO, and nutrient contents. either way the result is if you put any living mycelium in a jar it will take off.




There was one brewery I was talking with that house fabricated a prop tank for trying to get yeast independent. they had a large version of a magnetic stir plate and stir bar to keep the yeast agitated during prop. the internal stir element destroyed yeast and dropped their viability by some 30% alfa laval solved this problem and makes a magnetic levitate agitator now that keeps yeast from lysis.


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #21740653 - 05/30/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Use Brawndo.  It has electrolytes.  :tongue:


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Re: Oxygen or Co2? need an urgent answer [Re: Jenn] * 1
    #21740658 - 05/30/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

it's what yeast want.


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