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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Crystal G]
#21743939 - 05/31/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It makes absolutely no sense. You'd think making huge sudden changes like that would be completely destabilizing for the crazy people getting married and for their relationship. I suspect that these kind of decisions are driven almost entirely by emotion and there's very little critical thinking going on to make sure the decisions are actually good ones. It's sort of like the kind of reckless and irrational decision making you'd see from a jealous person. I don't know how people can sustain that level of craziness for more than a couple hours or days though. It boggle's my mind.
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Rosen_Rot
Learning



Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Goa
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21743962 - 05/31/15 06:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's probably because they are being whipped but they are so brainwashed that their partner loves them that they'll view whatever they say or suggest as law. It happens and people become so immersed in the illusion of love they often forget that should have a life outside of their relationship, merge with the other person and their life is no longer theirs anymore. When they get into a relationship or married it's often viewed as "us vs the world" Scary shit.
I once was like that when I was 16. Had a really beautiful pale red-head with a nice rack and would do anything in bed as long as I kept her "happy" which usually meant no female friends, little activity on social-media, called her everyday on the dot and kept her updated on everything that I was doing from the moment I eat till I finish eating, till going to school, to coming home, checking in.... it felt like I was punching in for work most of the time.
I often hid away in world of warcraft, at least my life there was awesome.
This was years ago, I'm a lot better now and haven't been subjected to such a bitch in 9 years and had good and loving relationships along the way.
My ideas on marriage still haven't changed. I just don't see it making any logical sense anymore other than taxes
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"The internet has one rule; use or be used" - Bjeldiablo ''there is no loneliness, only moments where contentment is fleeting'' SBJs "The Basics" 3iRiS9 "Cirque du freak" B+ BONANZA
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21743978 - 05/31/15 06:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said: It makes absolutely no sense. You'd think making huge sudden changes like that would be completely destabilizing for the crazy people getting married and for their relationship. I suspect that these kind of decisions are driven almost entirely by emotion and there's very little critical thinking going on to make sure the decisions are actually good ones. It's sort of like the kind of reckless and irrational decision making you'd see from a jealous person. I don't know how people can sustain that level of craziness for more than a couple hours or days though. It boggle's my mind.
You know, I bet shit like that is precisely what causes mid-life crises. That's why those rich Christian Republicans guys are ALWAYS the ones paying thousands of dollars, for shit like gay-for-pay tranny dominatrixes to beat the shit out of their testicles while they smoke crack. It's ALWAYS the fucking middle-aged married guys, usually some CEO or some high-powered attorney from the suburbs doing that shit. 
This is inevitably what happens though, when people who always loved to party (or never got the chance to party) suddenly become repressed, and decide they want to get married simply because society pressures them to.
The problem isn't getting married itself. If you've found the one that you want to be with forever, great. The problem is with doing marriage "the traditional way" instead of continuing to live a free and alternative lifestyles together as a couple. Marriage should be about making and setting your own rules and living the way you guys want to together, not about conforming to what society deems to be an acceptable marriage.
My best friend from college is getting married this month, and she's not even planning to live with her husband. A lot of people think it's weird, but I think it's great that they're setting their own rules and not conforming to society's expectations. I bet you anything they last longer than most American marriages doing what works for them too.
In another thread Mescalean was talking about how men don't want to get tied down to any loose women with pasts, they want to settle down with a "homely, housewife" type. But I bet you anything that your friend married one of those conservative, housewife types, and that she was the one who convinced him to drop all his friends and do all that church shit the second they got hitched. I bet you anything that's what happened. Your friend doesn't realize it yet but he is going to have a major meltdown in his 40's.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Crystal G]
#21744078 - 05/31/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's going to be great to watch it unfold (I'm feeling a little spiteful about it all). Both of my friend and his GF are crazy as shit, and their relationship is by far the most dysfunctional one I've seen among my friends. My friend lies to his GF all the time and now thinks it's okay to lie to his friends. I suspect he lies because he's too afraid to face his problems in a strait-up way. The GF, who is also likable as a person in some respects IMO, is a control freak and she can't handle any kind of confrontation, even if it's innocent confrontation (she can't even learn to drive because oncoming traffic scares her too much, and there's no public transportation where they live). They're glued to each other so now they're like one person who get's caught lying all the time and can't deal with the blow-back or most other problems in any way that's even remotely functional. I'd predict a divorce within a year if I thought they were sane enough to fix anything at all. I can't even imagine how fucked up they'll be in their 40s. I suspect this kind of stupidity, albeit in lower more tolerable doses, is a lot more common than I think it is.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Crystal G]
#21744105 - 05/31/15 08:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said: It makes absolutely no sense. You'd think making huge sudden changes like that would be completely destabilizing for the crazy people getting married and for their relationship. I suspect that these kind of decisions are driven almost entirely by emotion and there's very little critical thinking going on to make sure the decisions are actually good ones. It's sort of like the kind of reckless and irrational decision making you'd see from a jealous person. I don't know how people can sustain that level of craziness for more than a couple hours or days though. It boggle's my mind.
You know, I bet shit like that is precisely what causes mid-life crises. That's why those rich Christian Republicans guys are ALWAYS the ones paying thousands of dollars, for shit like gay-for-pay tranny dominatrixes to beat the shit out of their testicles while they smoke crack. It's ALWAYS the fucking middle-aged married guys, usually some CEO or some high-powered attorney from the suburbs doing that shit. 
This is inevitably what happens though, when people who always loved to party (or never got the chance to party) suddenly become repressed, and decide they want to get married simply because society pressures them to.
The problem isn't getting married itself. If you've found the one that you want to be with forever, great. The problem is with doing marriage "the traditional way" instead of continuing to live a free and alternative lifestyles together as a couple. Marriage should be about making and setting your own rules and living the way you guys want to together, not about conforming to what society deems to be an acceptable marriage.
My best friend from college is getting married this month, and she's not even planning to live with her husband. A lot of people think it's weird, but I think it's great that they're setting their own rules and not conforming to society's expectations. I bet you anything they last longer than most American marriages doing what works for them too.
In another thread Mescalean was talking about how men don't want to get tied down to any loose women with pasts, they want to settle down with a "homely, housewife" type. But I bet you anything that your friend married one of those conservative, housewife types, and that she was the one who convinced him to drop all his friends and do all that church shit the second they got hitched. I bet you anything that's what happened. Your friend doesn't realize it yet but he is going to have a major meltdown in his 40's. 
Ya know, crystal you write some great posts but then you come out with this kind of shit. Very few conservative Christians get freaky but when they do it's news and gets reported sensationally. Do you know who will never get reported on sensationally for shit like this? You. And me. It isn't news. And Mescalean has no clue about anything as far as I can discern
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#21744177 - 05/31/15 08:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's some pretty heavy handed stereotyping in the idea, but there's also some good insight in it. Attempting to use marriage as a crutch to get past other issues seems like it could easily blow up in people's faces.
The stereotyping does concern me a little though, Crystal G. I enjoy your posts for the most part too, and there's usually a good core to the ideas, but I feel like you've inherited or picked up a few bad ideas that get mixed in with the good ones, and you get the good and bad stuck together sometimes. I'm not attacking you or anything, but you should attack those ideas yourself so you can see why the bad parts are bad.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21744566 - 05/31/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've been thinking about the ceo's and high-end lawyers popping up in the news as a result of bdsm-like escapades. For the largest part, I think they're news because they're hot shots; the millions of other people enjoying this kind of stuff just aren't interesting enough. But I also think it has to do with their personalities. People in high positions end up there because they are more than average interested in power. That likely extends to their sexuality as well, which I think is why certain professions could very well be associated with an above average incidence of deviant sexual behavior that involves a distinct exchange of power as well. It's just one of my musings, but I'd love to run a study once to establish a preference for bdsm in relationship to profession and professional success.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: koraks]
#21744596 - 05/31/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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They also have the money to blow on that kind of stuff, and there's a culture for opulent spending with lots of those guys. They're they idiots who pay $10,000 for a wrist watch.
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 7,659
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21744996 - 05/31/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said: The breakup scenario is one of those situations that you have to really think through and then pick the option that sucks the least. If you lie or withhold that info at any point, you have to maintain the lie or deception (which almost definitely means more lies and/or deception). The temporary benefits are not worth the serious long term drawbacks IMO. If you fess up right away you either end the relationship or you get to proceed with a reasonably healthy relationship. I like clean risks that have the possibility of ending well, And I'd prefer not to have a relationship rather than have one that's not open and honest, so I'd go with the latter option.
The "emotion cheating" one is way more complicated. The only thing I can say about it is that it's best not to add extra emotional bullshit to the problem by taking it personally or getting jealous or something like that. I'd be up front about what bothered me, but I wouldn't want her to give up on something she wanted just because I was bothered by it. That situation needs to be explored more thoroughly before any serious decisions are made. It's got to be resolved in a way that's fair and satisfying to both people.
I don't know about the third one, but I definitely wouldn't be okay with it if it were left unresolved, and I would want to talk about it very thoroughly to make sure I should still trust the GF. Otherwise I would end it.
Thanks for the response... I will say I'm not sure I like the idea that the real reason you would be honest about sleeping with someone while you were on break is because getting away with it would be too hard. You did say you prefer a relationship thats open and honest, but it sounds like failing that, you'd be willing to be dishonest if it were a "clean risk." ...Sorry, that sounded sort of judgmental. But I think you see my point.
I really agree that emotional cheating is very complicated. Having sex with someone, if its not just pointless sex, is an obvious way to know that someone has violated your emotional bond. But when there isn't anything majorly physical, how can you even judge if its there? Incidentally, in my real life experience the partner being "emotionally cheated" on either didn't suspect anything or decided it wasn't worth making a big deal out of.
Oh, and I did lie a little bit about the last scenario to simplify it. In real life it wasn't a kiss on the mouth, the girl started kissing the guy's neck and chest and he didn't do anything to really stop it. Which sort of made it more fucked up because technically he didn't "do" anything, but he didn't say it wasn't ok. Ever, even later.
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: bloodsheen]
#21747382 - 06/01/15 05:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bloodsheen said: Thanks for the response... I will say I'm not sure I like the idea that the real reason you would be honest about sleeping with someone while you were on break is because getting away with it would be too hard. You did say you prefer a relationship thats open and honest, but it sounds like failing that, you'd be willing to be dishonest if it were a "clean risk." ...Sorry, that sounded sort of judgmental. But I think you see my point.
...
Haha. I like your point. It's not that it's my "real" reason, I just think it's nice to have a strong reasonable argument to think about in the heat of the moment. I like and agree with many of the moral arguments too, and those can (and should) exist alongside the more strictly logical arguments. I think it gets harder to stay on track when you've only got the moral arguments to work with. I feel like moral arguments in these situations make their strongest points when they appeal to emotional considerations like upholding trust and respect. But in the heat of the moment it's easy to get locked up in the immediate emotions (lust, fear of loss, etc.) and that makes it hard to think about other emotional stuff. For me, when I'm heated or otherwise emotionally charged, it's easier to acknowledge a logical point than it is to acknowledge an emotional point that's counter to what I'm feeling, so I go for the easier good idea first, and later I feel good about trying to do the right thing. It's kind of an ends justify the means argument, but it's heart is in the right place too.
And it's good to judge other people's ideas. That's how you learn whether or not they're valuable.
Edited by Mr.GuessWork (06/01/15 08:29 AM)
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CherryBom
Yoga Gypsy


Registered: 12/26/98
Posts: 11,177
Loc: Ontario
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21747688 - 06/01/15 08:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think if your actions hurt your partner, you should probably re-evaluate your relationship or terms.
Confusing things happen sometimes, interpersonal chemistry isn't always a choice we make, but how you choose to act on it is. If you find yourself really attracted to a variety of people fairly consistently, maybe you just don't belong in a committed relationship...for now. Some couple are cool with flirting, or even trading or sharing and open relationships and stuff... I don't get that swinging stuff, but it works for some people I guess so power to them. As long as both parties are agreeable to the so-called terms, have fun.
The word affair strikes me as an ongoing relationship. Cheating could be a one time thing. I've heard people say that if their partner cheated on them they would get through it. I would struggle with that, because it would make me feel like I wasn't a priority.
I'm not a priority for a variety of people right now. Let's talk about one of them. Robert is a good 20 years my senior. Very handsome, we have a lot in common. He likes to text me first thing in the morning and wish me a good day ahead. When his wife goes away, he suggests I should come hang out with him at his cottage, we can have a fire, drink wine, 'hang out' whatever. He lives in this fantasy world where I'm his cute, young tagalong. He is always calling me these super cheesy nicknames he makes up for me, and suggesting these date-type romantic activities that never, ever happen because he's married and I'm not into games. Nothing physical has ever happened between us. Ever...
So what is his deal? What does he really want from me? Am I just some kind of fantasy for him? If I was his wife and I read his phone, I would have a lot of very heavy handed questions for him about his intentions. Is he just bored? I should just ask him. I stopped responding to him about 3 weeks ago and he keeps calling me and texting me, telling me that when I'm ready to talk he's ready to listen, whatever that means.
Like, go talk to your wife. How about you listen to her? 
It's not cheating, it's not an affair...it's just a weird grey area of confusion. So back to my original point, if your significant other is potentially hurt by your actions, you might want to reconsider your intentions...or not, if you're an asshole or don't care. But if you don't care, then just break up with your other so they don't have to deal with your selfish bullshit anymore.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: CherryBom]
#21747779 - 06/01/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
CherryBom said: So what is his deal? What does he really want from me? Am I just some kind of fantasy for him? If I was his wife and I read his phone, I would have a lot of very heavy handed questions for him about his intentions. Is he just bored? I should just ask him. I stopped responding to him about 3 weeks ago and he keeps calling me and texting me, telling me that when I'm ready to talk he's ready to listen, whatever that means.
It definitely sounds like he's thinking with the wrong head because none of that is thought through very far or well. This is why I like to have some nice cold logic to fall back on in emotional situations. It regrounds me back in reality, where my decisions have consequences that might matter. I don't think I could respect myself if I kept on shamelessly embarrassing myself like that. Maybe once or twice would be tolerable so I could learn something about myself, but at some point the palm and the face have to make contact.
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 7,659
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21749625 - 06/01/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Im not sure what you mean to him but it doesnt sound like fantasy. At some point he would for sure make a move by the sound of it
But its interesting to ponder if hes done anything wrong so far. Older gentleman with a pretty, young, interesting girl that enjoys his company. You make him feel desireable and witty
Is that alone somewhat of a betrayal to his wife? If hes ravished you 100 times in his mind, and you give him emotional satisfaction, is that like an unreciprocated affair or something? If hes played out kissing you thousands of times, then he actually does it, does it suddenly, in that one moment, go from totally accptable fantasy to cheating? If you plan to murder someone and they find an incriminating notebook or something, you go to jail. Its a crime just to intend to kill someone. Is this the same thing?
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: bloodsheen] 1
#21751538 - 06/02/15 06:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The only parts that are really a red flag for sleaziness, IMO, are that he doesn't do it while his wife is around, and that he tries to establish and maintain the emotional front of a supportive relationship. It reminds me of the way these weird spiders mate. The responsible male spiders trap a fly and give it to the female so the female doesn't eat them while they're mating. The smarter male spiders wrap the fly up in webbing so they have more time to mate and escape. The dirty-old-man spiders just give the female spider an empty ball of web and then sneak away after mating. It sounds like this guy's in no real position to offer anything but the emotional front of a supportive relationship, so that's all he's giving. The fly is important.
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DOBAS



Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 1,002
Loc: Virginia
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
#21777333 - 06/08/15 04:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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In my opinion the only thing that constitutes as cheating is when my genitals make contact with anothers. Blowjobs and handjobs are fine in my book.
You only live once and if your hot friend wants to suck you off to relieve some stress or just to get you off I say go for it.
Some other cultures men have multiple partners. Think about it, we where put on this earth to feed, fuck and grow. Thats it. Who decided that free fucking was a bad thing? People got sensitive.
I don't cheat. Never have
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CherryBom
Yoga Gypsy


Registered: 12/26/98
Posts: 11,177
Loc: Ontario
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Re: What really constitutes an affair? [Re: DOBAS]
#21777372 - 06/08/15 05:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If another girl gave my man a blowie, I would consider that a huge breach of trust and it would make me feel pretty shitty about the relationship. It's pretty much a deal breaker. For me. In my world.
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