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Soul-Shine

Registered: 11/02/13
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Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased?
#21732515 - 05/28/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've a very basic understanding of mantras and how they work. What I am perplexed by, for example, is why tibetan buddhists would recite:
Oṃ Āḥ Hūṃ Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hūṃ as a means to call upon Padmasambhava's (a historical figure) blessing.
Om Benza Wiki Bitaba Soha to gain protection from Dorje Shugden?
I was under the impression that mantras help quiet the mind while also improving brain function given your tongue's position on the soft palate of your mouth upon recitation (connecting neural pathways). Why would buddhist's pray to spirits? It is reminiscent of catholicism and calling upon the saints, no? I understand that they may believe in the existence of parallel realities and entities, but what is the purpose of calling their aid.
Did the historical buddha (Siddhartha Guatama) rely upon any spirit aids? Can't imagine he would have, but I would be a fool to say one way or the other since the two of us never shared a cup of tea.
Thoughts?
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PocketLady



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Re: Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased? [Re: Soul-Shine]
#21732668 - 05/28/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pretty much all traditions have "spirits" and such that can be called upon for various reasons. I don't know all of the ins and outs of Buddhist entities, but my understanding is that different entities have different functions. Some might be for protection, some to assist with healing, some to assist with consecration etc. I know it seems a bit strange because Buddhism is thought to be less dogmatic than other traditions, but once you reach a certain point and can access the spiritual planes then I guess the existence of these beings becomes apparent. Really all traditions are singing from the same song sheet, because there is only one ultimate truth imho. They all just use a slightly different way of getting there.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Kickle
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Re: Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased? [Re: Soul-Shine]
#21732688 - 05/28/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I bet it varies from Buddhist to Buddhist. A specific example in my head though that may clarify a little bit, is from the Dalai Lama.
In some book at some point he described briefly his practice in relation to Tantra. He described his visualizing practice, his intention, and even the purpose of engaging in this practice.
Traditionally, the Dalai Lama is supposed to be an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara, a bodhisattva who embodies all of the Buddhas perfect compassion. One story of Avalokiteshvara's compassion involves him getting 11 heads to be more able to see and hear others' suffering and then a thousand hands to be able to reach out to all those who are suffering. A super-human ability to see others suffering, as well as a super-human ability to reach out and touch that suffering.

Anyways, the Dalai Lama claims to utilize a Tantric practice centered around Avalokiteshvara as a way to embody that perfect compassion. For him it is not about seeing oneself and then seeing Avalokiteshvara. There is no comparison being made -- I need to be more like _______. For him it is about focusing in such a way that one sees nothing but Avalokiteshvara. Losing all else but that perfect compassion. And due to seeing nothing else, being as Avalokiteshvara, as perfect compassion.
A problem arises? What do I see? Avolokiteshvara - perfect compassion. Not the Dalai Lama trying to be perfect compassion. Cut out that middle - see perfect compassion.
I think this is primarily different from the common conception of praying to a saint in that praying to a saint typically involves a wish for the saint to bestow something upon an individual. Whereas the Dalai Lama is not looking for something to be given but for something to be. He's looking to be aware of Avolokiteshvara rather than to be like Avolokiteshvara or to see the blessings of Avolokiteshvara.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Deviate
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Re: Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased? [Re: Soul-Shine]
#21732802 - 05/28/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soul-Shine said: I've a very basic understanding of mantras and how they work. What I am perplexed by, for example, is why tibetan buddhists would recite:
Oṃ Āḥ Hūṃ Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hūṃ as a means to call upon Padmasambhava's (a historical figure) blessing.
Om Benza Wiki Bitaba Soha to gain protection from Dorje Shugden?
I was under the impression that mantras help quiet the mind while also improving brain function given your tongue's position on the soft palate of your mouth upon recitation (connecting neural pathways). Why would buddhist's pray to spirits? It is reminiscent of catholicism and calling upon the saints, no? I understand that they may believe in the existence of parallel realities and entities, but what is the purpose of calling their aid.
Did the historical buddha (Siddhartha Guatama) rely upon any spirit aids? Can't imagine he would have, but I would be a fool to say one way or the other since the two of us never shared a cup of tea.
Thoughts?
Buddha taught the path of awareness, which doesn't focus on spiritual guides or prayers or anything like that. However, that doesn't mean that relying on spiritual guides or praying doesn't work or is invalid, as some ill informed western Buddhists seem to think. Because these practices work, it would be silly for a Buddhists to overlook them simply because they aren't the main focal point of the Buddhist tradition.
As for Buddha not relying on any spirit aides, I would disagree. We are constantly being helped by our spirit guides and guardian angel and Buddha was most likely no different. Just because his teaching doesn't focus on that, doesn't invalidate it. Thats part of the beauty of God/spirituality. It is so much beyond words and concepts that teachings can be given, which sound so different that you think they must oppose each other and yet when you see from a greater perspective, you see they really don't oppose each other.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased? [Re: Soul-Shine]
#21732843 - 05/28/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It is my understanding that in official Buddhist doctrine itself, there is an explicit stance against spirits and deities. However, in Tibetan Buddhism, the picture is more complicated because of course one has to recognize that Buddhism in Tibet evolved from the indigenous Bon religion (the two met around 700 AD). The Tibetans never quite gave up their spirit-beliefs from that religion, so in a more civilized, monastic sense spirits and deities are frowned upon, but in the more indigenous, colloquial, shamanic sense, they are legion. This is one of the main reasons Tibetan Buddhism is so fascinating, especially to Westerners.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Icyus
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Re: Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#21732920 - 05/28/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mantras affect body, space, spirit and minds
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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deff
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Re: Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased? [Re: Deviate]
#21733445 - 05/28/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: As for Buddha not relying on any spirit aides, I would disagree. We are constantly being helped by our spirit guides and guardian angel and Buddha was most likely no different. Just because his teaching doesn't focus on that, doesn't invalidate it. Thats part of the beauty of God/spirituality. It is so much beyond words and concepts that teachings can be given, which sound so different that you think they must oppose each other and yet when you see from a greater perspective, you see they really don't oppose each other.
i agree 
as for the question, while it appears that the historical Buddha did not consciously rely of help from friends in Spirit, we really do not know what his inner practice was to culminate in his awakening, nor much about what he did after his awakening. the stories relating to the life of the Buddha are often very much mythologized it seems, and we really don't know all too much about him imo. and as Deviate says, I also believe that everyone is being aided by spiritual guides and masters in Spirit whether they're conscious of it or not.
some forms of Buddhism do include petitionary prayers - Mahayana and Vajrayana have many such prayers to Buddhas and past masters, to gods and goddesses, dharma protectors, etc... while a lot of Buddhists seem inclined to want to distance themselves from other traditions' practices, I don't see a need for a Buddhist to exclude such prayers if they feel drawn to them. and from the testimony of many spiritual practitioners, such prayers do elicit a positive effect. and I would include mantras that invoke blessings in this category as well. I think there's a reason why many different traditions have similarities in regard to this
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Can someone explain about buddhist mantras in regards to the deceased? [Re: Soul-Shine]
#21736103 - 05/29/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Understand that OM AH HUM are the seed syllables of the Enlightened Brain, Throat and Heart Centers, respectively. The Powerful (Siddhi) Vajra Guru resides in the Heart Center which is the Human Realm intermediate between the 2 lower Earth Centers and the 2 upper Heaven Centers (5 Centers/Chakras in Vajrayana). The Vajra (Dorje) has (usually) 5 'prongs' on each of 4 arms. Each prong represents one of the 5 Buddha Wisdoms, including those assigned to the 2 lower Centers after an Enlightenment experience (which transforms the usual motivations of those Centers/Chakras into vehicles of the Enlightened Mind). The Vajra/Dorje emanates from a singularity at its center, manifests as the Wisdoms, and then disappears again into the Unmanifest Void.
Unification occurs at the Brain Center (OM), but the transpersonal consciousness then flows down through the Throat Center (where its communicated as the seed-syllable AH) into the Heart Center (HUM, HUMan) where Realization takes place. The 'Lotus-Born One' in this psycho-cosmic movement is not necessarily the same as paying homage to Padmasambhava as a historical figure, but an inner recapitulation of this movement. Lama Govinda explains 'OM and HUM as Complementary Experiences' in his Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism. HUM is more than OM, he says. OM is the finite dissolving into the Infinite, but HUM is the Infinite indwelling the finite! "Solve et Coagula!" It is the Heart Center wherein "Unbearable Compassion" exists both as a 'singularity' (the Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart), in form, as well as a Plenum Void of Boundless Clear Light in formlessness.
Let us not make the same mistake as fundamentalist Christians who cannot tell the difference between Christ as Logos and Jesus as man (either historical or mythical), with Padmasambhava, the 'Lotus-Born.' To be fair, the myth of the physical Resurrection in Christianity is the closest thing Christianity has to positing non-dualism as in Buddhism wherein Samsara = Nirvana, where form = formlessness. But how many Christians have ANY idea of this interpretation? Well, there's me. No, the average Christian (1) 'believes' that this is a magickal historical event, (2) that it occurred to one Jesus of Nazareth, followed by (3) a physical Ascension into the air (even though the Greek word pneuma also means spirit, and ascension into spirit makes more sense, metaphysically-speaking, than a howsoever transfigured physical body rising up in the air! (To where? Jesus must be halfway to the outer planets by now if that was the case). This is the kind of absurdity that a physical interpretation of scriptural writings brings. It's no wonder that rational people discard their beliefs, but what they need to discard is their piss-poor interpretations of the material and just maybe use the spiritual insights of other traditions to reinterpret their own with a greatly enhanced understanding.
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/29/15 09:41 AM)
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