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Offlinethewanderer25
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A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C
    #21730586 - 05/27/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

(This is just an idea of mine it has never been done by me personally but I dont see why it wouldn't work). Ok so if you have ever done chemistry their is a thing called an oil bath. The reason they use oil is because water boils at 212°F but vegetable oil boils at approximately 400° F. The reason we use a pressure cooker is because the water dose not boil till about 275°F which will kill all the contaminates laced in the substrate. so using a oil bath and a thermometer we could make the temperature about 275°F without having to buy or use a pressure cooker. do you guys think this would work and if not why? I just think it would be easier and cheaper to do this because you can reuse the oil and dont have to watch out for pressure build up.


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Offlinegrasshoppertexas
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21730636 - 05/27/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

It'd be really messy. Cleaning oil off jar isn't practical.


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251 degrees at 110 minutes.


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Offlinethewanderer25
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: grasshoppertexas]
    #21730639 - 05/27/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

true plus the oil wouldn't wash of with water i dident think about that


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Offlinemotherchimp
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21730647 - 05/27/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

It's easy enough to dip in dish soap water though. Eats through oil.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea but also doesn't sound like a good idea for amateurs cooking oil on a stove at temps well above boiling water.


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21730652 - 05/27/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Oil bath sounds like it would be a messy operation for our purposes. Whats this about water boiling at 275f in a PC? The steam created by the water boiling is what gets super heated above boiling point as pressure increases. At 15psi that steam temperature is ~252f, 20psi is 259f. You would need 30psi to reach 275f.


Wheres the tek?


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How I make 15 lbs of casing in a 941. How I line 12 shoeboxes with 1 39gal bag. How I Deep Fry Cubes!
RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


Edited by Juiceh (05/27/15 11:13 PM)


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: Juiceh]
    #21730672 - 05/27/15 11:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that it's not just the temp that kills bacteria but also the pressure. Instead of posting and cluttering mush cult with hypothesis and theory's, you should test them first and then post results.


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: insanemike]
    #21730674 - 05/27/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
I'm pretty sure that it's not just the temp that kills bacteria but also the pressure. Instead of posting and cluttering mush cult with hypothesis and theory's, you should test them first and then post results.



:whathesaid:


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Trade List

How I make 15 lbs of casing in a 941. How I line 12 shoeboxes with 1 39gal bag. How I Deep Fry Cubes!
RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


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OfflineOysterKing
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: insanemike]
    #21730697 - 05/27/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I've posted this link before, the word doc is well worth reading:

Here it is.. (its on the Thermal Destruction of Micro-organisms)


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:grin:


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: insanemike]
    #21731233 - 05/28/15 05:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
I'm pretty sure that it's not just the temp that kills bacteria but also the pressure. Instead of posting and cluttering mush cult with hypothesis and theory's, you should test them first and then post results.



Wait, didn't you just post a hypothesis and theory?  Yes.  :yesnod:

Nah, pressure = temperature.  Pressure and temperature are the same thing.  The reason we need pressure is so that the temperature of the materials being sterilized can reach sterilization temperatures.  If devices weren't able to be sealed, and gain pressure, 212 (boiling) would be the highest temperature that could be achieved unless you used a microwave.


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: hamloaf]
    #21731243 - 05/28/15 05:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:


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OfflineLeGene
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: insanemike]
    #21731250 - 05/28/15 05:24 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Aslong as there is water in the jars or the grain have a watercontent, this method won't work. It's basic thermodynamics, you can't get the water/vapor temperature over the boiling point without pressure. In an oil bath the temperature inside the jars and grains wont go over 100°C without pressure even when the outside temperature is 300°C.


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OfflineJsneeb
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: LeGene]
    #21731275 - 05/28/15 05:42 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Aslong as there is water in the jars or the grain have a watercontent, this method won't work. It's basic thermodynamics, you can't get the water/vapor temperature over the boiling point without pressure. In an oil bath the temperature inside the jars and grains wont go over 100°C without pressure even when the outside temperature is 300°C.




Came here to say this.

You cant just heat water hotter than 100C under normal pressure conditions.
Otherwise why wouldn't it get this hot on the stove? When the water boils it dissipates heat by turning to a gas. In the pressure cooker this does not happen ( not much at least)

If you did this in oil you would boil the shit out of your substrate, dry it out, and it would still never exceed 100C.
This fundamentally can not work.


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Read my trip report :smile:

Titled, Mushrooms, Thirsty Water Bottle, And Boiling Peanut-butter?

http://www.reddit.com/r/shrooms/comments/37z9rp/mushrooms_thirsty_water_bottle_and_boiling/


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: Jsneeb]
    #21731289 - 05/28/15 05:55 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

An increase in temp is the result of pressure, yes. But without heat, there is no pressure. So heat creates pressure, not the other way around. Pressure is a tool used along with temp to kill heat resistant endospores.

"Sterilization can be achieved with one or more of the following: heat, chemicals, irradiation, high pressure, and filtration."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(microbiology)


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OfflineLeGene
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: insanemike]
    #21731322 - 05/28/15 06:21 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Pressure in the PC is used to raise the boiling point. Look up the vapor pressure diagram of water, it explains the relation better then I am capable of. But I'll try:
The vapor/water temperature can't raise over the atmospheric pressure boiling point(which is 100° with ~1bar). So you need to increase the pressure to increase the temperature(boiling point) of the water/vapor.
Sterilization can be achieved with dry heat, yes, but only if there is no water content in the thing to sterilize. ex.: surgical tools


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: LeGene]
    #21731347 - 05/28/15 06:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

In an oil bath only the glass will get to above 212f the few grains close to the glass will burn and the rest never get above 212 because they're wet and the best you'll do is boil them dry or break a jar.

In a PC temperature kills not the psi. Psi can kill but to use psi for sterilization they use in excess of 3-4,000 psi usually pushed by co2 in liquid mediums but its difficult to bring those back down to normal pressure without your liquid turning into foam so its hardly used in any industry.


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OfflineAl Bundy
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21731367 - 05/28/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This thread:smilingpuppy:


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: hamloaf]
    #21731390 - 05/28/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

"Nah, pressure = temperature.  Pressure and temperature are the same thing"

I do realize they both work hand in hand and heat is the major factor in the mycological sense of sterilization. But referring to the quote above, pressure and temperature are very complimentary of each other but they are not the same thing. That's the point I was making.


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InvisibleUncleFester
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: Al Bundy]
    #21731886 - 05/28/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Al Bundy said:
This thread:smilingpuppy:



That's an original idea but I don't think you'd want to use oil with a pc unless your lubricating the gasket/metal

Water is much more simple. Oil will only complicate things and make a mess. Instead of avoiding buying a PC. You should figure out ways to afford a pc and of course use discounts if possible.


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:pm:Looking for Penis Envy & Psilocybe Cubensis Cuba spores.:pm:


Edited by UncleFester (05/28/15 11:13 AM)


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Offlinethewanderer25
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: UncleFester]
    #21732377 - 05/28/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

true im just a cheap basted :tongue2: but i was just thinking of making a grain spawn with corn and was reading about why a PC is necessary with grains and wondered if thier is a cheaper way to go about it. i guess not i might just use a PF cake to avoid having to buy a PC.


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InvisibleUncleFester
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Re: A New Way To Sterilize Jars Without A P.C [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21732755 - 05/28/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

They had a 23qt presto on ebay for $86 ($96 or something with tax)  worth it as fuck man, don't buy a used pc because it might be warped and venting steam..

http://m.ebay.com/itm/281535198852?nav=SEARCH


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:pm:Looking for Penis Envy & Psilocybe Cubensis Cuba spores.:pm:


Edited by UncleFester (05/28/15 02:18 PM)


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