|
Trichome_Delta9


Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 1,969
|
|
Yeah this is the debate forum so you would have better luck with astrology in another thread I think this stuff is interesting and I know exactly how the people on this site can be.
|
PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
|
|
What makes a good astrologer? Certainly not the ability to match a chart to a person. Astrology is about looking at the chart, looking at the problem or query the person has and using the chart to help the person with said issue. The mark of a good astrologer is whether or not they have helped a person understand themselves and their lives better. It's like saying "What is the mark of a good counselor?" Surely the judgment as to whether or not the person was a good counselor, or a good astrologer, is how the client feels at the end of it?
I mean, how did they "prove" that counselling was even effective treatment for certain mental health issues? Surely they did studies with control groups etc. And how did they measure they outcome? By the number of participants who saw an improvement in their mental health issues surely? So, to test whether astrology is really accurate, you need a double-blind experiment where one group of participants go and sit with a real astrologer and discuss their real charts/issues. A second control group go and sit with an astrologer who is telling them about the wrong chart. If more people in group 1 believe their reading was accurate than the people in the control group, voila, evidence. I do firmly believe that any kind of study would need to include an actual face to face meeting and discussion between participant and astrologer though, because astrology needs to be personalised to be really effective. Not just a list of traits. Which is why all of this rubbish about matching people with charts is nonsense.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (05/29/15 05:48 AM)
|
PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
|
|
I've just been doing some reading about various astrological studies that have been done over the years and it's very interesting. In particular I found this article which suggests that there have been historical studies done that have suggested the validity of astrology. Also, that the more recent Carlson study in 2009 was not only flawed in it's methodology, but did actually have some results that supported astrology. I realise the article might be slightly biased, but it's interesting reading nonetheless.
Support for Astrology from the Carlson Double-Blind Experiment
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
|
Trichome_Delta9


Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 1,969
|
|
Biased shit can be smelled from a mile away.
its practically impossible to find anything unbiased.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
|
|
I'm a Saturn man. It was cool to consider how Mercury's retrograde could possibly influence people's experience. Gravity cycles I suppose, like frequencies in a computer chip.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Trichome_Delta9


Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 1,969
|
|
can this thing turn my life around?
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
|
|
Quote:
Trichome_Delta9 said: can this thing turn my life around?
It could inspire you to move to live in the mountains in a place like Colorado or Oregon, go in to town to stock up on your own personal pot stash , and then chart out the movements of the planets and stars for yourself , and then with a kick-ass telescope go out into the night sky and see for yourself, see how doing that makes you feel.  Or any other variant of how you could incorporate an interest in the movement of celestial bodies into your current, present life.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Trichome_Delta9


Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 1,969
|
|
can i get babes with this knowledge
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Quote:
Trichome_Delta9 said: Biased shit can be smelled from a mile away.
its practically impossible to find anything unbiased.

As usual, not one believer of astrology has ever listed the basis for it on this forum. And will not because there is none.
If something works as well as the claimants say it does, it does not take decades of manipulating meta-data to make it seem like it almost, sort of, has some validity slightly better than guessing.
--------------------
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Gold prices and astrology: http://astrologynewsservice.com/news/astrological-study-on-gold-prices-hits-the-mother-load/
This is a classic example of the kind of back-fitting of data that astrologer's attempt. This is a no-no in valid research.
--------------------
Edited by OrgoneConclusion (05/29/15 07:58 PM)
|
Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I don't believe astrology is bullshit. I know it is.
To counter, why don't you tell us how you know that "Mercury rules all forms of communication" for starters.
Hey, I have a general epistemelogical question: do you consider claiming knowledge prior to conjecture, to be consistent with empirical standards of evaluation?
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
Quote:
PocketLady said: The problem is that the kind of evidence you want doesn't exist. Maybe one day science will have advanced enough to be able to explain it, but not yet. Just like a few hundred years ago no one could prove that those twinkling lights in the sky were actually stars.
No, that is not the problem. The problem is that science can only describe and predict phenomenon that are observed. Scientific theories will never be able to describe hypothesized phenomenon that are unobserved.
The observation of people seeing patterns where they don't really exist and feeling their way to conclusions has been studied scientifically. There have been experiments done, papers published and even jargon like "confirmation bias" which has entered into the common language.
You said it yourself, the evidence doesn't exist. Whatever other "kind of evidence" you are thinking of is not evidence.
|
Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
|
Re: Mercury retrograde [Re: falcon]
#21738021 - 05/29/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
falcon said:
Quote:
Kurt said: When someone is "mercurial" this could be referring to how a person manipulates the way things are represented through the formality of discussion or conversation, by cleverness, like by appealing to a formal media of what can and can't be seen for practical reasons due to the mode of discussion, and putting this into play as deception. That would clearly be the negative interpretation of mercuriality.
Yes, but it can also be instructive if the manipulation is easily spotted or there's cues left in the way it's presented that let you know that.
I generally would say I agree that it can be seen as possibly useful and constructive aspect or character trait. What I was referring to was admittedly a colloquial meaning, that stresses negativity... as in "watch out he is mercurial"... I can't think of hearing of or any references to mercuriality (as human quality) on a more positive note, but maybe you can?
... I don't like pedagogues in general let alone clever ones as "well intentioned" as they may be in mediating discussion. Sometimes the student surpasses the teacher, in a single moment... In principle, I like evengroundedness in speaking and communication, and I think (or its at least my opinion) my better teachers represented that.
I'd say I like Hermes or mercury to deliver and bring my message without any unneccesary hassle. I think its interesting that his job is to close the distance he stands for.
I'd say it could be in remediating accidents that mercuriality holds a positive meaning, like in things being passed along, down through history. Ideas are interpreted and reinterpreted and need to be retrieved in their essence - at least some philosophers say!
Maybe it is literally needing to cross a distance to send a message, or figuretively crossing a length of exposition of ideas that nobody wishes to read, but which have truth and relavency and need to be covered to be expressed, that is mercury?
Mercury to me represents lightness or lightening of the medium, like the winged shoe.
But I don't know, maybe in the way communication is perceived as instant and ideally transparent today, it is such to the extent that we have to play games, or give it a little substance, weight, and opacity to Mercury's over-light bearing?
Edited by Kurt (05/29/15 08:09 PM)
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 21 hours, 13 minutes
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
but I do think it works as a template
Do you even know what a template is?
Maybe, maybe I just like the sound of the words template, templar, temple. Maybe words have more than one meaning. Maybe words can be stretched to encompass other meanings when placed next to other words, altered by the contextual space they exist in at the moment of utterance.
There's those letter templates, I've always thought of them as two dimensional, even though without that third dimension that's doing all work capturing paint or serving as a barrier to some marking instrument. Then there's those templates that well, there more on the order of molds and people call them templates anyway. I've often thought, Do they even know what a template is?, I'm inclined to think that they do now, but maybe that template word just got stretched into something that just a little too plastic to grasp. Oh and what about that template, that's not even substantial?
Edited by falcon (05/29/15 08:19 PM)
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 21 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Mercury retrograde [Re: Kurt]
#21738446 - 05/29/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kurt said:
Quote:
falcon said:
Quote:
Kurt said: When someone is "mercurial" this could be referring to how a person manipulates the way things are represented through the formality of discussion or conversation, by cleverness, like by appealing to a formal media of what can and can't be seen for practical reasons due to the mode of discussion, and putting this into play as deception. That would clearly be the negative interpretation of mercuriality.
Yes, but it can also be instructive if the manipulation is easily spotted or there's cues left in the way it's presented that let you know that.
I generally would say I agree that it can be seen as possibly useful and constructive aspect or character trait. What I was referring to was admittedly a colloquial meaning, that stresses negativity... as in "watch out he is mercurial". I can't think of hearing of or any referencesa to mercuriality on a more positive note...
But anyway, I don't like pedagogues, in general let alone clever ones as "well intentioned" as they may be in mediating discussion. Sometimes the student surpasses the teacher, in a single moment. In principle, I like evengroundedness in speaking and communication, and I think (or its at least my opinion) my better teachers represented that.
I'd say I like Hermes or mercury to deliver and bring my message without any unneccesary hassle, and in an interesting way, his job is to close the distance he stands for.
I'd say it could be due to a matter of remediating accidents that mercuriality holds a positive meaning, like in things being passed along, down through history. Ideas are interpreted and reinterpreted and need to be retrieved in their essence, at least some philosophers say!
Maybe it is literally needing to cross a distance to send a message, or perhaps figuretively crossing a length of exposition of ideas that nobody wishes to read, but which have truth and relavency and need to be traversed to be expressed.
Mercury to me represents lightness or lightening of the medium, like the winged shoe.
But I don't know, maybe in the way communication is perceived as instant and ideally transparent today, it is such to the extent that we have to play games, or give it a little substance, weight, and opacity to Mercury's over-light bearing?
Hm, people who I think of as Mercurial, are interesting, but only for short periods of time.
|
Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
|
Re: Mercury retrograde [Re: falcon]
#21738570 - 05/29/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah. dictionary definition says mercuriality is someone with fast changing moods or mind. (Semantics as mercuriality?)
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 21 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Mercury retrograde [Re: Kurt] 1
#21738589 - 05/29/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I also think there's an aspect of fluidity, in people who I think are mercurial, probably for me an association with the element, but the changes in those who I think of as mercurial aren't totally disconnected, and fluidity seems appropriate.
|
Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
|
Re: Mercury retrograde [Re: psych_fck] 2
#21738760 - 05/29/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
It's cute when hippies take their silly ideas seriously
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
|
Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
|
|
On scale its almost like the idea that this forum or statements in it like yours stand for some kind of epistemelogical conjecture. Too cute. :-)
|
Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
|
Re: Mercury retrograde [Re: Kurt] 1
#21739167 - 05/29/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Hey if you believe in silly ideas that's fine, but don't get butt hurt when someone points out your ideas have no real evidence what so ever. If you don't like that maybe spirituality and mysticism is a better suited forum for you.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
Edited by Cognitive_Shift (05/29/15 11:10 PM)
|
|