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Offlineglimpee
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Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it
    #21729470 - 05/27/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

There is debate as to which is better - and I thought I'd ask the community

Shaolin monks for example train moving into a punch - and they seem to know what they're doing. I assume there are some guidelines to follow, like knowing that your muscles will outwork the enemies hit

Many people argue with physics that you reduce the damage done if you move/roll with the punch

The issue I see is that if you don't control it, you are allowing the attacker to move your body in the desired direction easier

Thoughts? This belong in a different sub?


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Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: glimpee]
    #21729782 - 05/27/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

The last time someone tried that I pulled The Terminator II move and crushed his fist into mush, then took his Harley.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21730772 - 05/27/15 11:53 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
The last time someone tried that I pulled The Terminator II move and crushed his fist into mush, then took his Harley.






Kind of a spoiler if you follow this - but if you dont you should 100% watch this episode and the one before it

EDIT: Time embed didn't work. Skip to 15:00


Edited by glimpee (05/28/15 01:42 AM)


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: glimpee]
    #21731172 - 05/28/15 03:53 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Moving into the punch instead of away from it is a good mantra for all aspects of life.


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Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: PocketLady]
    #21732939 - 05/28/15 03:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
Moving into the punch instead of away from it is a good mantra for all aspects of life.





haha I agree

Strengthen yourself to reduce how much you can be moved

Don't move with the problem - thats only letting the problem control you

Stand your ground and preemptively defend against it


If your head doesnt move, you cant get knocked out (metaphorical too)


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: glimpee]
    #21733028 - 05/28/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

this is why boxer's keep their chins tucked.  if you have to get hit, better to take it on the forehead.  Otherwise its pretty much always better to avoid or deflect the blow.  Any punch, will have a point in its extension where it is not yet extended enough to have much power.  The opposite is also true(a point at which the extension is too great for much power)  If you can get inside or outside the maximum power range, thats good. So stepping into a punch actually does decrease its power, but so does stepping away.  Stepping in however, is faster and easier, so therefore perhaps the most reliable method?  Shaolin also teaches that active strikes are effective blocks.  So in a sense, that is also a form of moving in to a punch.  For example, if a guy were to try to rack you in the nuts, there are many things you could do to avoid it.  One effective method is to punch straight down on their ankle as the kick comes toward your junk.  drop your weight and turn your hips as you do for maximum bone crushing.


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21733485 - 05/28/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think knowing distance and mastering both techniques would be the way to go

Sometimes you dodge completely, or make them overextend and stumble

Sometimes you move into their attack, cutting them off and potentially breaking knuckles. Also allows you to better control where you are hit. You also do not move with the punch as easilly (resulting is a harder KO)


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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OfflineMquire
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: glimpee]
    #21733854 - 05/28/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Literally? Boxers train to lightly paw away/step into the punch. Also certain combos like 1-3-2-3 when performed flawlessly has the guy literally turning into all of your strongest punches for a devastating collision :p

Figuratively? Idk, I guess roll with the punches


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: Mquire]
    #21734457 - 05/28/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If it is Shaolin monks we're talking about, the element of Chi should be discussed.
It is not only, in theory, the physical body that is engaging the incoming force.


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: WScott]
    #21734991 - 05/28/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by saenchai (06/12/15 06:01 AM)


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: WScott]
    #21735481 - 05/29/15 03:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

WScott said:
If it is Shaolin monks we're talking about, the element of Chi should be discussed.
It is not only, in theory, the physical body that is engaging the incoming force.




I agree, and the idea of Chi without calling it Chi probably matters too

I wonder how hard it actually is to focus chi into say your stomach as you move into a punch

I wonder if anyone with some spiritual ability could simply achieve it in the right circumstance

I also have to ask how much chi is being used when shaolin monks move into hits



I kinda think it has to do with physical strength/stability as well as reducing the impact and catching the opponent offguard. If you have muscle that is tight enough to not dent with a hit, and you move that mass into a punch, I think the results will be positive

If you are scrawny and move into it, you will just cause strain while taking the blow (because the muscles arent tight enough to stop it) which can end up causing more damage



In the skilled hands moving into it might be better a lot of the time

For more people, move away

I think ahha


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: glimpee]
    #21736166 - 05/29/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I was just thinking about it and I am not fysicist or phighter but.. if you move to meet the strike of your opponent, aren't you inhibiting the strike from reaching its climax? Are we talking about meeting the force when it is 50% complete, 80% complete? Based on the model in my head, it seems to be the strike is only most effective at full extension, at the end of the intended range of motion. Does this play any role?


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: WScott]
    #21736592 - 05/29/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

WScott said:
I was just thinking about it and I am not fysicist or phighter but.. if you move to meet the strike of your opponent, aren't you inhibiting the strike from reaching its climax? Are we talking about meeting the force when it is 50% complete, 80% complete? Based on the model in my head, it seems to be the strike is only most effective at full extension, at the end of the intended range of motion. Does this play any role?




I think it absolutely does!

I don't know if this has relevance, but when I punch people in dreams it (usually, other than the last time) doesn't connect right. Its like I didn't hit at the most powerful part and because I didn't the punch just flops/slides off the faces

Really bad feeling. Especially when you're on top of someone beating of their face, only to have none of your hits connect...

two months ago or so I had a dream that I was exploring this old metallic, dark, and wet base or something. In one area there was a girl and her dog (75% as tall as her on all fours)

I fought them 3 times. They would come out of the shadows, the dog would pounce on me, and the girl would cast magic and then Id be dead

The third time I went back to sleep and met them I came at them full force. The dog pounced at me and I focused hard on a "super punch" and hit the dog across the room. After that my brother woke me up. I was pissed cuz I was about to DESTROY that little girl haha


Take whatever meaning you want out of it. Everything mad meaning and everything is metaphor - there is no one meaning or set of meanings, everything is connected, everything is one, all can be known from a single object and nothing can be learned from everything



Bullshit aside - from my previous research cutting off the blow so it can't reach full extension is one of the reasons this works. Balsams also noted that moving away caused the opponent to overextend and has the same (or similar) effect.

Another positive is that with increased force/control you can actually break your opponents knuckles. If your head is a brick wall moving at the fist then more chance of damage to the opponents hand

If your head is limp and moves with the hand then he's not gonna take as much dmg and your brains gonna get tossed around

And from the videos I've seen I say they stop most attacks at around 80%. Attacks are fast and they react instantly - but I think its hard to move into a 50% punch unless you REALLY see it coming


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: glimpee]
    #21737068 - 05/29/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

when striking, you should visualize your target as a point 8-12" beyond your opponent.  In other words, you should strike through an opponent, not at them.


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Invisibletito123
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: glimpee]
    #21740687 - 05/30/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Should the same apply to your awareness too?

Someone's an asshole.
You either:
a. get riled up and pissed off
b. place your attention somewhere else
c. analyze why they're being an asshole.  Are they upset?  Do they know they're pissing you off?  Are they trying to upset you?


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Offlineglimpee
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Re: Moving into a punch rather than moving away from it [Re: tito123]
    #21741752 - 05/30/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tito123 said:
Should the same apply to your awareness too?

Someone's an asshole.
You either:
a. get riled up and pissed off
b. place your attention somewhere else
c. analyze why they're being an asshole.  Are they upset?  Do they know they're pissing you off?  Are they trying to upset you?





Theres the question as to what's natural, and whats right, and if right/wrong is even relevant because it is subjective to the human experience. Different religions all have different views, perhaps enlightenment being the most prominent idea.

I'm not sure if the conventional model of enlightenment is natural, however. I think forms of it are but the natures or enlightenment isnt understood


Id say do what's natural if you had no forms of social repression. As to what that is - im not sure


--------------------
Just because I am arrogant does not mean I forget my place. It is how I choose to talk. I am not a monk. I am my own path, and I am without influence. Talk to me about my core being before you question my mental stability or life-choices. Chances are, they're only shocking to you because they don't fit your idea of what is.




Check out my Art Journal for some stuff I do http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21647069


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