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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
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CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints
#21729195 - 05/27/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi
First time post. Lots of rain here. Usual suspects on the well kept lawns. Pic shows the very dark black print vs. the Foe print.
Foes have been coming up big. When they are big, the gills are very brown and the spore print, of course, is brownish.
Subs can look dark grey and black but always print is my motto.
Best places are the best lawns, northern exposure or mostly shaded.
Happy hunting
G
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
Edited by Gilzman (05/27/15 03:46 PM)
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21729207 - 05/27/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Anglerfish
hearing things



Registered: 09/08/10
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21729627 - 05/27/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you're asking for identification it is best to have pictures of fresh specimens of each species you have.
I see one jet black print on the right there, but without more information I can't really tell what you've got.
Best bet is to get sufficient in situ shots, spore prints and descriptions per species.
Mind you, the majority of Panaeolus sp. have jet black prints, and some species are sometimes difficult to tell apart without microscopy.
Welcome to the Shroomery!
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★★★★★
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Anglerfish]
#21732133 - 05/28/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hee hee, the 'one' jet black print (far right), and the print to its left, are from the same mushroom. That is, I just moved it over after a couple of hours.
I think we agree that the brown print (far left) is what it is.
I see more rain a coming this weekend. Let's see what pops up again. I will bring the camera.
I can probably dig up some pics from last year.
As far as the effects, they are not in doubt.
I also found Conocybe Cyanopus last year. Perhaps the most beautiful mushroom IMO.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21757125 - 06/03/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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These are from fall 14. Top right is actually a brownish print. These are quick prints in that thy are less than an hour. They would be much blacker over time.

close ups

Foe on right

These were good

Again, many of the black prints are quickies. I usually print everything to check for black/brown to weed out foes.
I prefer to dry the good candidates.
Edited by Gilzman (06/03/15 12:05 PM)
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21773266 - 06/07/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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 Maybe clearer?
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Andjew
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Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 470
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints *DELETED* [Re: Gilzman]
#21773404 - 06/07/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by AndjewReason for deletion: Redacted for job security
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Andjew]
#21773488 - 06/07/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Close up
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Andjew]
#21773552 - 06/07/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Andjew said: You can identify black spored panaeolus easily by the stem and gills in my opinion. The stems are thinner, tougher, and straighter than the pan foes. Also, the gills should be a light black to a dark black when the cap is opened and mature. If you find pan foes and pan cincs in the same area, after a week of hunting them you'll be able to tell the difference. I don't even have to look at the gills anymore. The cap shape and color of a grouping tells everything.
Also, pan foes are wetter and their stems and caps give more when you press against them opposed to other black gilled panaeolus I have found.
I agree with all of that, except the thinner stipe. I have noticed the opposite, personally. But I mostly hunt for species in hpoo, so that may be partially why.
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Andjew
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Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 470
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints *DELETED* [Re: d0urd3n]
#21773730 - 06/07/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by AndjewReason for deletion: Redacted for job security
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Edited by Andjew (06/07/15 11:44 AM)
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Andjew]
#21778174 - 06/08/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I might get some pics of them today in the grass. I noticed some small 'red tops' coming up in a known spot yesterday.
I am at 6000 feet, if that has any bearing on size, etc. It continues to rain and humidity is high (for CO) at 50%. Hopefully, the 'Spring' season continues...
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21788490 - 06/10/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is my sure spot. Sloped left to right and towards camera. Camera faces South. Gardeners always fail to cut it.

These guys were just LBM buds a couple of days ago.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
Edited by Gilzman (06/10/15 02:02 PM)
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21788511 - 06/10/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quick prints
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21788565 - 06/10/15 02:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Those last prints are jet black - could be Panaeolus cinctulus.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
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I can send the print if anyone can ID from micro?
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21790480 - 06/10/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It would likely take more than a print - some of the cells on the gills are taxonomically significant as well.
If you feel like mailing it you might as well send it to alvalab.es and they will do the DNA analysis for $20.
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Andjew
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Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 470
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints *DELETED* [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21791786 - 06/11/15 05:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by AndjewReason for deletion: Redacted for job security
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Andjew]
#21792480 - 06/11/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That was my impression. A spore microscopic analysis can determine the species. Genetic testing is a new one on me. Seems interesting and I will read up on it.
But, I think that while spores are 'legal' under most US state laws, I would never ship anything that might be construed as illegal.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Andjew]
#21793421 - 06/11/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Andjew said: If someone took the spores from the spore print and looked at them under a microscope, would the shape of the spores tell what species it was?
No. There are many species with the same spore shape.
Microscopy doesn't often tell you what species something is, but it can eliminate some species.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
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Today, all Foes, which are coming up everywhere. They seem to come out in sunnier spots, or so it seems.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Those last prints are jet black - could be Panaeolus cinctulus.
We got rain up here in CO, I can find these at will...
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
Andjew said: If someone took the spores from the spore print and looked at them under a microscope, would the shape of the spores tell what species it was?
No. There are many species with the same spore shape.
Microscopy doesn't often tell you what species something is, but it can eliminate some species.
This really has me thinking, since I went out and was tossing 'brown gills' and focusing on the plentiful 'black gills'(and mushy due to rains..hands were getting black). I engaged a very friendly woman and complemented her on her property and its small wall that curved around and had a shady area. I asked if I could see what mushrooms were there and she said "OK". I had been dying to walk through there but it just seemed to intrusive. We ended up having a nice talk and I told her that I collected mushrooms to put in my lawn trimmings pile, along with coffee grounds and egg shells (I made that up). Anyway, I saw that there was indeed black gills but I was also snapping up brown gills because it would have seemed odd to sort them out right there.
When I got home, I capped all the black gills and did the same for the brown gilled pans on a separate sheet of paper. I fully expected dark brown spores but they were also black!...
In fact, I went to a few places, library, liquor store, bank and I swear that the reign of brown spored mushrooms are on the decline. I have a flush in my backyard that MUST be foes and I will do them tomorrow.
I really want to know; who has actually done DNA determination on these guys? has it been done????
Biggest 'black gills' was about a US Quarter.

biggest stem
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
Edited by Gilzman (07/07/15 08:41 PM)
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21921176 - 07/09/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Amazing that these guys come back in the EXACT same random spot. These by the library, along a swath of grass between concrete and asphalt.
We had TOO much rain and some shady spots are all wilted and also worm food. Colorado Weather. Love it or leave it.



-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21921260 - 07/09/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: d0urd3n]
#21921556 - 07/09/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gotta say. Ain't gonna "trip report", but...no way these are NOT only activated, but also strong.
PM me for details
quickie, but they look like they dropped some 'black product' in the wind (and rain)...

-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
Edited by Gilzman (07/09/15 09:02 PM)
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21929401 - 07/11/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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A habitat shot that shows a run of active pans. To the left is actually a rocky 'drain' that runs down this sloped area (maybe 15-20 degrees). Note rabbit poop. The whole private community is over run with rabbits. The rains made these all soggy and now a hot day with winds has vanished those I left behind. Colorado Weather.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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isic
Stranger



Registered: 09/23/13
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21930548 - 07/11/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice find! I also live in Colorado and can't seem to find any Pan subs. For many years all I have been able to find is Pan foes. Here is a pic of some I have picked in my yard the last couple days. Some fresh from that morning and some dried from the previous morning. Also have a couple prints to show.

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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: isic]
#21930581 - 07/11/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have come to the conclusion that you need good gill shots, long spore prints, and experience. There is some black possibility in that spore print.
You might have some players amongst that foe collection.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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isic
Stranger



Registered: 09/23/13
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21930608 - 07/11/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's ironic, because of the two prints, the better one was only an hour or so (I was impatient) and the weak one was left over night. I am pretty sure these are all foes as the gills never had a dark grey/black look to them (even dry) and have always maintained a lighter purple/brown color (as with their prints).
I will water my lawn tonight and see what pops up in the morning. I will be sure to take more photos. Believe me, I want to find Pan subs bad!
EDIT: Also, I have tried the specimens I have been finding in Denver for years (in the hopes that they are Pan subs), but none have ever been active. I have found lunch bags full of these and experimented with them many times, but no go!
Edited by isic (07/11/15 08:08 PM)
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: isic]
#21930642 - 07/11/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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LOL! I must be covered in all sorts of spores, and I water every day...AND MY BACKYARD IS COVERED WITH THOSE SMELLY FOES!!!
I had conocybe cyanopus in my backyard one year...I hope they come back and visit some day. I look at the spot almost every day.
The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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isic
Stranger



Registered: 09/23/13
Posts: 222
Loc: Colorado
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21930673 - 07/11/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, it's real! I used to live in Lufkin Texas and I LOVED the fungi out there! I found more cubes and pan cyans than I could handle! Here in Colorado, I have found 2 specimens of semiovates, tons of Fly's and ungodly amounts of foes... but the subs evade me!
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21930685 - 07/11/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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These stink horns come back every year...nasty
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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isic
Stranger



Registered: 09/23/13
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Re: CO first time post , Sub vs Foe prints [Re: Gilzman]
#21930747 - 07/11/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I've got them nasty bitches and some huge Amanita's that come back every year. It looks like A.solitaria, but I think that's a European amanita.
Here is a pic of one in the button stage. I'll have to see if I can dig up some more pics from last year.

But I want Pan Subbs! LOL
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