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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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the need for a return of authentic LSD
    #21728512 - 05/27/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

LSD production and use has greatly decreased in recent times, and though compounds such as psilocybin containing fungi and DMT extractions and DMTMAOI containing teas as well as trichocereus pachanoi cacti growth and consumption are fairly popular at this point, which is good, LSD still seems in great decline....

Research chemical analogues or research chemical psychedelics active in submilligram to a few milligrams dose have greatly replaced LSD in recent times, which is a shame, because these compounds don't even come close to doing the things that LSD can do...

Phenethylamines (mescaline, 2Cx series, DOx series, etc...) are 5HT2A +5HT2C receptor agonists

Tryptamines (DMT, psiloc(yb)in, ibogaine, etc...) are 5HT1a +5HT2a + 5HT2C receptor agonists

LSD (while it has a tryptamine core is actually unique from the other tryptamines, and while technically it is a tryptamine, it is unique, even in the world of ergolines and lysergamides LSD is unique) is a:
5ht1a + 5ht2a + 5ht2c + 5ht1b + 5ht1b + 5ht5a + 5ht6 + 5ht7 + D1 + D2 + D3 + D4 + alpha2 receptor agonist

This amazing compound plays a role that other psychedelics simply can not.

The subjective effects of LSD are rich and have bennefits not offered by other psychedelics, I'm not claiming its the supreme psychedelic or that it will save the world, simply that it is a tool that should be available to the people who can do the most with it....(ken kesey, jack Nicholson, Allen ginsberg, etc...were all exposed to LSD or other psychedelics through government programs and look at what they became! I only mentioned 3 people but seriously the list of amazing people the government turned on is fairly long, the list of amazing people influenced by LSD or other psychedelics is even longer, Steve jobs credits LSD for inspiring a good deal of his ideas involving the computer....

LSD is powerful, and if we can get this stuff to the artists, the writers, the intellectuals, the philosophers, the politicians, the musicians, the psychotherapists, psychologists, spiritual explorers, religious leaders, etc...it can really change the world in some amazing ways..


Leary fucked up in thinking that we needed to give LSD to anybody who could stick their tongue out, its NOT for everybody....but the fact that people who could really do amazing things with it don't have access to authentic LSD really bothers me...

All the good chemists are dead, retired, or in prison, owsley Stanley, nick sand, Tim scully, none of these amazing chemists arevLSD producers any longer, then there's guys like Casey hardison who werecproducingbLSD but moved to Europe where he was caught. William Leonard pickard and Clyde apperson were producing large ammounts of LSD, people may say bad things about pickard, bur he trained at purdue under David e. Nichols, he wasca talented chemists and he was producing in ammounts suitable for national distribution, now he is servingbteo life sentences....now we have clandestine micro-labs here and there, but talented chemists producing large quantities of LSD are becoming more and more uncommon.....personally I think it should be made legal, it should be produced by professional chemists in state of the art laboratories, then the users should simply obtain the LSD by prescription from their doctor, this way only adults would have access and if at any time they had issues they could contact their doctor, I think every drug should be handled this way....but it will never happen....

Now is the time for LSD, we have learned from the 1960s, we know the limits and parameters of the compound and we have learned from past mistakes, The fantastic assumptions once made about the compound have Been proven one way or the other by now, and now we know how and what this compound can be used for.

...the fact that LSD is in decline saddens me, I want to do anything that I can to change this, I want to tell the people who it could help that its a tool for their use, I want to convince chemists that because its active in microgram dose that it is the most worth while compound to produce by weight, I want to remind people of events like the acid tests held by ken kesey and the merry pranksters that were used to spread the word of LSD, I want to remind psychedelicos that LSD is unique and valuable and should be part of any innerspace explorers tool kit, I love mescaline, DMT, and psilocybe fungi, but these compounds are doing fairly well at this point, while LSD is in decline....

The decline of LSD must be reversed...the thing is, a single chemist could do it, or a few chemists could do it you could get 10,000 doses out of a gram (though in reality its less than that, but its still worth more dose for dose than any other compound) ...a single chemist could produce kilograms of LSD with the right supply of precursors and lab gear, and that single chemist could effectively bring LSD back....

I really don't want to see LSD die...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21728602 - 05/27/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)



David E. Nichols, Rolland Griffiths, and others speak about psychedelic research in the film above, David e. Nichols makes some Statements about LSD with in the first few moments of this film that I truley agree with, there's some really great information and insight throughout this film.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineMatt87
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21728640 - 05/27/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

The shits around. Perhaps you aren't outgoing enough.


--------------------

Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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OfflineFranklinsTower
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21728674 - 05/27/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Rarely does gold surface, you usually have to dig for it or pan for it right? Its there, its relatively easy to mine, but you have to know where to mine right? Same shit.

It never left ever, it never will. Just remember this, "every 4 years".

And test kits are to cheap to pass on.

Enjoy


--------------------
Learn one, do one, teach one.  Repeat


Edited by FranklinsTower (05/27/15 01:36 PM)


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OfflineMatt87
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: FranklinsTower]
    #21728842 - 05/27/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Every four years?


--------------------

Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Matt87]
    #21731510 - 05/28/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Matt87 said:
The shits around. Perhaps you aren't outgoing enough.




Its around, but rare.

DMT, mescaline (via trichocereus species), psiloc(yb)in fungi, and research chemicals are more available than ever, yet LSD is rare,  I was simply trying to explain how this needs to change.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: FranklinsTower]
    #21731521 - 05/28/15 07:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FranklinsTower said:
Rarely does gold surface, you usually have to dig for it or pan for it right? Its there, its relatively easy to mine, but you have to know where to mine right? Same shit.

It never left ever, it never will. Just remember this, "every 4 years".

And test kits are to cheap to pass on.

Enjoy





Sadly, research chemical vendors are rigging their analogues to field test positive for the compound it mimics....so ive been having to GC/Ms through online testing sites, its the only way...

I have access to LSD, but I hear story after story of people who were fed analogues or garbage and who.are judging LSD based on these experiances....I'm not saying we need an outbreak of acid...but it should be at least as available as DMT or psilocin or mescaline...and its not.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineMatt87
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21731588 - 05/28/15 08:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

If you won't say it I will. We need an outbreak of acid!


--------------------

Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Matt87]
    #21731744 - 05/28/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Since 2011-2012 there is A LOT more acid and more potent tabs then there was in the 2000's.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21732116 - 05/28/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

LSD is making a comeback. Maybe a more diverse comeback thanks to 1P-LSD and AL-LAD and other analogues but darknetmarkets and bio reactors and will create a more steady supply for those interested. With the ongoing normalisation of drugs and the knowledge of the positive effects of psychedelics spreading there will again be a less party centric crowd of new people interested in LSD.

Also LSD is getting extremely cheap again, probably lower than it has been for almost a decade. Bulk LSD from darknetmarkets is really cheap.

Maybe I am the exception but the people I know know that bitter tasting tabs are not LSD, they dont really care but atleast they know, right?


Edited by RennHuhn (05/28/15 11:11 AM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21732256 - 05/28/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Though I enjoy 1P-LSD, I don't consider it to be LSD, its claimed to be a prodrug of LSD, and is a million times better than any other analogue (except for eth-LAD), but still....actually 1P-LSD could be seen as an analogue of N-acetyl-LSD (ALD-52), which nick sand claimed was the true identity of orange sunshine, so I'm actually ok with 1P-LSD...

How ever lysergic acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide and the other LSx compounds, as well as the XXX-LAD series (with the exception of eth-lad) experientially cant compare to LSD-25.

If its bitter tasting its probably an N-benzyl-methoxy-phenethylamine (NBOMe), which are quite dangerous, your risking death, vassoconstriction causing loss of limbs, and various other potential hazzards, NBOMe's are like rolling dice, one time you will be fine, the next time of the same batch of the same dose could kill you....DOx series compounds can taste bitter, and I actually enjoy the DOx series (except for the long duration), but I don't want to risk eating NBOMe's so I test all my dose.

I still don't think acid is available enough....

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21732274 - 05/28/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

....have you known anybody that sent dark-net LSD to a GC/MS testing site to confirm its identity?

I honestly hope that authentic LSD is comming back, I have not seen it near as much as I would like too, its around, but not near as much as it should be.

1P-LSD will hopefully replace NBOMe, DOx, xxx-lad and LSx series compounds, at least I hope it will, but it has a good deal of potential for going the way of ALD-52 and becoming scheduled.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21732287 - 05/28/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)



In the film above it describes the impact that LSD had, as well as the charecters promoting it...

...maybe that's whats missing, we need charecters like Neal cassady, ken kesey, the merry pranksters, nick sand, Tim scully, owsley Stanley, and so on...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21732295 - 05/28/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

More availability would be great, but I dont think there was a better time for drug users since the 60s than now.

New drugs arrive weekly and darknetmarkets have an extremely big variety of clean drugs and precursors. You can buy all the active plant through the internet and the knowledge gets more accessible.


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21732308 - 05/28/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Sure have a look at the DNMAvengers subreddit, people are starting to test more and more :smile: Everything that was sold as LSD was LSD sometimes underdosed but still LSD.


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Offlinetoday mylove
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21733254 - 05/28/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

If someone came on the equivalent of the shroomery in 1993 and they asked where they could get LSD... I'm sure someone would say hit up a grateful dead show. Now, you go on reddit or something and ask around, I'm sure someone will point in the direction of the dark net. Buyers and sellers don't do it in the open anymore- perhaps this is what lead you to think LSD is on the decline? I'm willing to bet it isn't. If you don't have any connections, right at this moment, your journey to finding it will be different and easier than it was in 2005.

Edit- and when I say buyers and sellers "don't do it in the open anymore" I'm not suggesting that LSD was ever sold blatantly in the open, I just mean you had those widely known scenes that people knew about and that's where you could follow the acid around. And those scenes still exist, along with variations upon them as time goes on as well- and that further drives my point home- there are new ways people can find acid currently. Also 1P-LSD IS being sold off online as if it is legal. People claim near to identical effects to LSD-25, you can't discount this either. Any old joe with a credit card can (could?) buy crystal 1P-LSD... that's thousands of doses right there.


Edited by today mylove (05/28/15 05:50 PM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: today mylove]
    #21735954 - 05/29/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

1P-LSD is amazing, the substitution is made to the nitrogen that's parts of the indole rings pyrole ring, or "position 1" the propionyl substitution, just like an acetyl substitution(like ALD-52 ;N-acetyl-LSD),  is suposed to metablolise back into a hydrogen atom connected to the nitrogen, in other words, the substitution is pulled appart by the body and your left with LSD.
....when LSD has substitutions to the nitrogen at position one its said to make the molecule more stable in storage, though with both ALD-52 and 1P-LSD contact with water will cause the compounds to become LSD as well....

I feel LSD is in decline because it actually is, look at the stats, on a global scale, since the late 1970s the numbers for LSD production, use, and awareness are at an all time low....the only people using LSD are the people who already have had their eyes opened, there's so many people worldwide who don't have knowledge or access to this amazing compound, yet cocaine and herion are available on every street corner 24/7....in the biggger picture, LSD is on the decline, you need only reveiw the numbers.

....again maybe its not that there isn't LSD out there, its that its not getting to the people who could do the most with it.  LSD has been confined to a small community, and really is not expanding.....if you ask people off the street to be honest about if the have taken LSD or not, most will.say no. Most people who I smoke marijuana with know nothing about LSD except for the urban myths that the general public accepts, they don't know what it looks like, where ot comes from, or what it does to you....hell, most people thinks its dangerous! And when you tell them " Assenior LSD researcher Dr. David Nichols, Distinguished Chair of Pharmacology at Purdue University and head of one of the world's top LSD research labs, stated in his 2004 review article on hallucinogens, "There is no evidence that any of the hallucinogens, even the very powerful semisynthetic LSD, causes damage to any human body organ. [...] Hallucinogens do not cause life-threatening changes in cardiovascular, renal, or hepatic function because they have little or no affinity for the biological receptors and targets that mediate vital vegetative functions." Deaths resulting from the pharmacological effects of LSD are rare to non-existent
(-erowid) they think you are the one who was misinformed.


Out of all drugs, even the psychedelics, LSD is the most rare, the public as a whole know the least about it, and sadly it could do more to help people than any of the drugs that are well known and widley available such as opiods and stimulants....



-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21735958 - 05/29/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RennHuhn said:
Sure have a look at the DNMAvengers subreddit, people are starting to test more and more :smile: Everything that was sold as LSD was LSD sometimes underdosed but still LSD.




Good to know!

-E. Borodin


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21740380 - 05/30/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with much of your post, but after 44 years of tripping I now completely disagree with your minimalizing of  psilocybin in comparison to LSD. Two Winter Solstices ago, 3 of us decided to combine our separate 3.5 gram dose of P. cubensis. So I powdered 10.5 grams, added the juice of one lemon, 10 ml of Everclear® grain alcohol, mixed, and added the slurry to 500 ml of hot tea where it steeped for a full 20 minutes. We each took 166 ml of the tea with the mushroom powder filtered by a finely perforated metal coffee filter.

Let me tell you, I have taken a few classic acid trips worthy of mention in one of Dr. Stanley Grof's books, including a revivification of my biological birth in 1973. But on this Lemon-Tec method, I began to turn into iridescent streaks of pastel-colored light. The only music any of our nervous systems could tolerate was slow Ravi Shankar ragas. I had the momentary delusion that the man (now deceased) was actually playing somewhere in my house. I began to 'become' "the sound of the sitar" (the title of one of Ravi's recordings). The three of us had a fascinating but frightening telepathic experience as we all later processed that we were pulled (unpleasantly) by our Naval Centers, down to some root-bearded, glowing-eyed, chthonic earth-entity's domain, which we all described almost identically! That experience was precipitated by a dark, spooky part of the CD Greyfolded. The result is that my wife and our friend will never again trip on the Winter Solstice.

As to your call for a chemist, I'd respond with a couple of things. Yes, I cut my psychedelic teeth on acid. My college roommate used to get baggies of the Sandoz from the East Hanover, NJ Sandoz plant near my house. Unfortunately, I never got any of those blue pills, but I did get some of their Psilocybin. I took Windowpane or Clear Light my first time, and from my roommate's opinion, that was comparable to the Sandoz. Those hits must have weighed in at a good 300 mcg each. I also had Orange Sunshine from Berkeley, CA (once insufflated 2 hits, one up each nostril, at least 600 mcg), orange and green barrel acid, 'red berry acid' (some of the BEST), and all kinds of blotters from before the days of printing art on them to some classic ones). But look at the consequences to chemists when they are caught - Pickard & Apperson as you named for example. Owsley and Nick Sands did time too. It is VERY liberal of the authorities to tolerate the growing of mushrooms, and you may find with time that a 6-8 hour entheogenic excursion is preferable to a grueling 12 hour one. There are now analog drugs that can be delivered in microgram doses that can kill. This was never a problem with LSD because nothing else was potent enough to fit on a 1/8" square of gelatin or a 1/4" blotter. Dosing someone with acid without their knowledge is easy, with mushrooms, a bit more difficult ("Hey, try this chocolate  :devil:).

The thousands or millions of tabs of Sandoz LSD (Leary & Alpert drove from Boston to NJ to get their's) were 'leaked' for a social experiment. Of this I am convinced. When the culture began become psychedelicized, and people were seeing through the idiotic social-status games that Robert de Ropp describes in The Master Game, the LSD had to dry up. It was threatening the consumerism that American capitalism is founded on. If a (then) $1995 Volkswagon Beetle was just as desirable as a (then) $13,000 Cadillac in 1970 because people were not interested in impressing their neighbors, showing off (all ego), or appearing to be rich, then our economy was going to take a major hit. Young people's values were shifted towards personal development with LSD which was far more available than 'exotic' mushrooms or Peyote (although someone in Laredo, TX used to sell pounds through the mail). America is a pill-culture, and most Americans are myco-phobic. I was told as a little boy not to ever put "toadstools" in my mouth. My mother was quite clear on that point. Relatively few people in the USA eat, let alone grow mushrooms, given our population of 300+ million. Flooding society with acid is going to be dealt with like that poor guy who died after 20+ years in prison at age 45, with a life sentence for selling acid 3 times at Dead shows. :frown: I'd say, count your blessings. :yesnod:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: the need for a return of authentic LSD [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21740398 - 05/30/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm much more terrified of Psilocybin then LSD.  LSD tends to be puppy and rainbows to me, SUPER introspective.  Mushrooms tend to be more sinister, like an older brother or sister toying and fucking with you for it's own amusement.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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